Elite Defense if no major injuries?

Joker said:

right...we need linebackers like THIS or everything sucks and is going to bad bad bad bad!!!

Cut Mayo!! Cut Hightower!! Cut Jones!!! We gotta get three of THIS GUY!!!!

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who is that?

THAT is the player gymrodent is screaming for...that fat trimmed workout monster, ripped and ready to take Mayo or Hightower's position and then REALLY show the world what linebacking is all about...

THAT is Vernon Gholston...

Gymrat said:

This defense comes down to the pass rush period. If Jones is supposed to be the top passrusher he either improves or its bad news. He was handled and completely dominated at times by single blocking. I'll keep it short and sweet this time. He needs to get slightly quicker at least and more powerful. If not there's a chance his sack totals drop slightly rather than increase. But its the consistent heat on the qb I would like to see.

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I don't think our pass rush is gonna solely rely on Chandler. Ninko and if healthy Smith can get pressure, not to mention Easley, Armstead, and even Kelly can get to the QB thru the middle. Plus LB's like Collins in Hightower blitzing in. Esp if our secondary improves, I can see BB really getting creative with blitzes again.

If Chandler does break out though...watch out!

Marqui said:

Uh, no. Our dominant coverage is actually going to make the pass rush get to the quarterback faster, haven't you heard?

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If a coach trusts his secondary to cover guys one on one for enough time, he can be more aggressive with the pass rush (more rushers, more aggressive assignments, etc). So yes, having a better secondary CAN help the pass rush get there faster in a way. Not sure why that sounds so ridiculous to you.

Marqui said:

Uh, no. Our dominant coverage is actually going to make the pass rush get to the quarterback faster, haven't you heard?

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I guess that's the plan.

The last championship defense I can recall that built it's passing defense from the DBs in was when we were winning our SBs. But that was when Poole, Law, Smith, Gay were able to mug the crap out of receivers and allowed our pass rushers to get the the QB.

After the emphasis on the 5 yard rule, for the most part pass rushers have been the key to championship winning defenses. The Giants defenses and their rushers. Pittsburgh and their blitz scheme. Baltimore with their rushers. The Saints blitz scheme when they won. Even the Seattle defense, it's the pass rushers that allow the DBs to play as aggressive as they do. I feel that Seattle's secondary is getting the most pub is because Sherman is loud and in your face. But if the DL is not applying pressure, then they can be beat (Falcons in the playoffs two years ago).

I love the fact that we have, on paper, a great secondary. But I feel the overall effectiveness of our pass defense will be dependent on whether we can have consistent pressure on opposing QBs.

This may not be the right place to post this, but I was just watching the footage of Easley being drafted over again, and I noticed that he was called a defensive end. That probably means that when the draft card was filled out by one of the Pats front office guys, he was written in as a DE. Obviously versatility is important and plenty of our players line up all over the place, but does anyone think it's possible that BB envisions him as primarily an end rather than a tackle?

Elijah said:

This may not be the right place to post this, but I was just watching the footage of Easley being drafted over again, and I noticed that he was called a defensive end. That probably means that when the draft card was filled out by one of the Pats front office guys, he was written in as a DE. Obviously versatility is important and plenty of our players line up all over the place, but does anyone think it's possible that BB envisions him as primarily an end rather than a tackle?

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No. You can't put much stock into what they write down on the draft card. Chung was labeled a "defensive back" on there, meaning he could line up at multiple positions, but played exclusively at safety. Easley will be moved around quite a bit depending on match-up, though. He does have the versatility and the explosion to line up at both DT and DE.

KontradictioN said:

No. You can't put much stock into what they write down on the draft card. Chung was labeled a "defensive back" on there, meaning he could line up at multiple positions, but played exclusively at safety. Easley will be moved around quite a bit depending on match-up, though. He does have the versatility and the explosion to line up at both DT and DE.

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One of the biggest reasons i came around on the easely pick is that I believe he fills two needs for them, he can get after the QB asboth a DT and a DE and that gives them the rotational end they needed to work in with Jones and Ninkovich and the penetrating DT they have needed for some time

Ivan said:

One of the biggest reasons i came around on the easely pick is that I believe he fills two needs for them, he can get after the QB asboth a DT and a DE and that gives them the rotational end they needed to work in with Jones and Ninkovich and the penetrating DT they have needed for some time

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We're so thin at DE I think he might get a shot there before he does at DT this season

Ivan said:

One of the biggest reasons i came around on the easely pick is that I believe he fills two needs for them, he can get after the QB asboth a DT and a DE and that gives them the rotational end they needed to work in with Jones and Ninkovich and the penetrating DT they have needed for some time

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I had an epiphany about 3-4 months ago when I came to the conclusion that the 2 best pass rushers in this draft were Aaron Donald and Dominique Easley, and that both had the athleticism and versatility - especially Easley - to play at multiple spots on the DL, outside as well as inside. From that point on I was "all in" on coming away with one of them, with Easley always being the more realistic option.

mayoclinic said:

I had an epiphany about 3-4 months ago when I came to the conclusion that the 2 best pass rushers in this draft were Aaron Donald and Dominique Easley, and that both had the athleticism and versatility - especially Easley - to play at multiple spots on the DL, outside as well as inside. From that point on I was "all in" on coming away with one of them, with Easley always being the more realistic option.

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Good call, I was looking at it in terms of the way they had drafted in prior years and you and manx changed my views on it so that I started looking for a smaller faster front 7. I initially didn't want them taking Shazier and he ended up being one of the highest rated players I had for them. And as much as i wanted a high quality TE I think that Easely was probably the right choice when all is said and done.

MrNathanDrake said:

We're so thin at DE I think he might get a shot there before he does at DT this season

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Which is why I like the pick so much, easely not only gives them a starting DT who can get after it but he also allows them to go big inside and use him in rotation with Jones and Ninkovich. If Wilfork and kelly can return to form this DL is going to have many different options to run out there and match up. I can see Easely inside with either Kelly or Wilfork and I can see them going big on early downs and using Kelly and Wilfork at DT with Jones and Easely at End, or I could see them going for a pass rushing line with Easely and Chris Jones inside and Chandler Jones and Ninkovich outside, as well as numerous other fronts.

I think so. To me the top 3 Ds last year were Seattle, SF & Arizona I think we can bump at least one of those teams out of the top 3.

Ahhh Yesss, "IF" small word BIG Meaning. I love to see this team at full strength all through playoffs for once. It seams like forever since that happened. Recent past seasons we also had some bad DBs that cost us as well. Now Pats can be a major factor on Def, DBs, Front 7, Subs Etc. I think we can be a top Def providing when Browner gets back off his 4Gs and they get familiar with each other real game time and of course it starts with everyone healthy.

Joker said:

right...we need linebackers like THIS or everything sucks and is going to bad bad bad bad!!!

Cut Mayo!! Cut Hightower!! Cut Jones!!! We gotta get three of THIS GUY!!!!

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In case you haven't noticed MOST elite lbs/passrusher DO look like that. Not saying it gives you football skills. But if you are a player, just a little fat slows you down more than most people realize and a little extra muscle gives you more power. Even a mere 15\16 lbs of fat slows you down CONSIDERABLY. Be it carried in the belly or distributed evenly giving muscles a smoother less defined appearance. Leaning out and adding SOME muscle IS an undeniable advantage for that player. More quickness more power meaning more explosiveness Period. Why do you think players use PEDs.

Give it a try and then talk about it. Instead of something you know absolutely ZERO about. Not saying cut anybody,just suggesting there is more potential in our young defensive players. Nothing more. And for the record who wouldn't trade Hightower/mayo for Willis/Bowman or Jones for Rob Quinn or Mathis. Look at Geno Atkins and Dominique Easley compared to most Dt's. If pot bellied couch potatoes can start nutrition/diet,training and tae kwan do to become stronger,quicker and more flexible then there's improvement within pro athlete's as well. Couple yrs ago I wasn't going to the gym for a good while and ate whatever I wanted and gained almost 20 lbs. I felt slow when I played sports or did any running and thought it was normal as I hit my 30s. I mean I blamed some of it on being a little out of shape. But by the average Americans standard I was still in pretty good shape. So I thought losing quickness was partially due to getting out of shape but Noway could it account for all of feeling slow and losing speed and quickness. When I got back in shape lifting ant eating better I felt 23 again and shocked myself on how much faster I was again and how easy it was to run. I just thought wow only if everybody could feel this difference. I had no idea carrying 15-20 lbs of fat could do that. And I now understood at the time what the nutritionist I saw was talking about that so many athletes don't realize how good they could really be. It comes down to losing excess fat and adding enough muscle for power without to much to slow you down.

Gymrat said:

In case you haven't noticed MOST elite lbs/passrusher DO look like that. Not saying it gives you football skills. But if you are a player, just a little fat slows you down more than most people realize and a little extra muscle gives you more power. Even a mere 15\16 lbs of fat slows you down CONSIDERABLY. Be it carried in the belly or distributed evenly giving muscles a smoother less defined appearance. Leaning out and adding SOME muscle IS an undeniable advantage for that player. More quickness more power meaning more explosiveness Period. Why do you think players use PEDs.

Give it a try and then talk about it. Instead of something you know absolutely ZERO about. Not saying cut anybody,just suggesting there is more potential in our young defensive players. Nothing more. And for the record who wouldn't trade Hightower/mayo for Willis/Bowman or Jones for Rob Quinn or Mathis. Look at Geno Atkins and Dominique Easley compared to most Dt's. If pot bellied couch potatoes can start nutrition/diet,training and tae kwan do to become stronger,quicker and more flexible then there's improvement within pro athlete's as well. Couple yrs ago I wasn't going to the gym for a good while and ate whatever I wanted and gained almost 20 lbs. I felt slow when I played sports or did any running and thought it was normal as I hit my 30s. I mean I blamed some of it on being a little out of shape. But by the average Americans standard I was still in pretty good shape. So I thought losing quickness was partially due to getting out of shape but Noway could it account for all of feeling slow and losing speed and quickness. When I got back in shape lifting ant eating better I felt 23 again and shocked myself on how much faster I was again and how easy it was to run. I just thought wow only if everybody could feel this difference. I had no idea carrying 15-20 lbs of fat could do that. And I now understood at the time what the nutritionist I saw was talking about that so many athletes don't realize how good they could really be. It comes down to losing excess fat and adding enough muscle for power without to much to slow you down.

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Gymrat said:

In case you haven't noticed MOST elite lbs/passrusher DO look like that. Not saying it gives you football skills. But if you are a player, just a little fat slows you down more than most people realize and a little extra muscle gives you more power. Even a mere 15\16 lbs of fat slows you down CONSIDERABLY. Be it carried in the belly or distributed evenly giving muscles a smoother less defined appearance. Leaning out and adding SOME muscle IS an undeniable advantage for that player. More quickness more power meaning more explosiveness Period. Why do you think players use PEDs.

Give it a try and then talk about it. Instead of something you know absolutely ZERO about. Not saying cut anybody,just suggesting there is more potential in our young defensive players. Nothing more. And for the record who wouldn't trade Hightower/mayo for Willis/Bowman or Jones for Rob Quinn or Mathis. Look at Geno Atkins and Dominique Easley compared to most Dt's. If pot bellied couch potatoes can start nutrition/diet,training and tae kwan do to become stronger,quicker and more flexible then there's improvement within pro athlete's as well. Couple yrs ago I wasn't going to the gym for a good while and ate whatever I wanted and gained almost 20 lbs. I felt slow when I played sports or did any running and thought it was normal as I hit my 30s. I mean I blamed some of it on being a little out of shape. But by the average Americans standard I was still in pretty good shape. So I thought losing quickness was partially due to getting out of shape but Noway could it account for all of feeling slow and losing speed and quickness. When I got back in shape lifting ant eating better I felt 23 again and shocked myself on how much faster I was again and how easy it was to run. I just thought wow only if everybody could feel this difference. I had no idea carrying 15-20 lbs of fat could do that. And I now understood at the time what the nutritionist I saw was talking about that so many athletes don't realize how good they could really be. It comes down to losing excess fat and adding enough muscle for power without to much to slow you down.

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something I don't know about??????????? You arrogant snotty little punk. I was playing Division 1 basketball when you were not even the beginning of an idea in your daddy's mind. You think because you've spent a few months in a gym that YOU are now the "KNOWER OF THINGS" ? For your edification, I have been playing football, watching football, writing about football and been a die hard Patriots fans since 1961.I GO to the camps every year and I SEE the players up close. YOU log on here and start screaming in gibberish that YOU know Patriot players like Jones and Hightower are fat and out of shape. YOU are a NUTBAG.Maybe somebody will drop a 50 pound dumb bell on your head to make a matched set.

BobDigital said:

I think so. To me the top 3 Ds last year were Seattle, SF & Arizona I think we can bump at least one of those teams out of the top 3.

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For some reason, people continue to discount that other teams have also improved their Defense over the course of the off-season. Tampa will be better (the Lovie effect alone), St.Louis, New Orleans, Cleveland and Chicago are a few off the top of my head I can think of.

I like what New England is building but it's a stretch at this point to make claims that it's an elite unit. If all goes well, the D has the potential to be elite. Unfortunately, if it all goes well hasn't gone hand in hand with New England in recent years.

If Wilfork/Mayo/Kelly return healthy, plus the addition of Revis/Browner/Easley.... The Pats have added a lot more than any of those teams.

Those strong Defense teams SF, SEA, ARI and STL are in the same division, plus the strength schedule of schedule benefits our team. I am not sure about top 3, but we'll certain finish among top teams.