Bill Belichick: Patriots To Try Logan Ryan At Safety During Spring

Arrington is not done here. See Miguel's informative cap pages to grok the impact of cutting this BB contractual over reach in 2014. Good Bye in 2015 though.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Arrington is not done here. See Miguel's informative cap pages to grok the impact of cutting this BB contractual over reach in 2014. Good Bye in 2015 though.

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I still don't understand why they gave Arrington that deal? Decent slot guy but that is it.

dales804 said:

In my opinion you're much better off having one player play the other safety position. Any real good team (i.e. one you'll face in the playoffs) will take advantage of the rotating players on the field. Do you think Manning would let Chung just play in the box and defend against the run? You need another safety who can tackle and cover or at least be adequate at both. Maybe that guy will be Ryan which I'm fine with. Or maybe Harmon will take a step in his 2nd year and be that guy. But please don't let me see Patrick Chung step on the field on defense for this Patriots team. What a disappointment that would be. His two biggest highlights as a Patriot in four years with the team came in one game and both were on special teams (@MIAMI 2010).

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I think they will use their defenders in response to the offensive sets the opposing team is putting out there so if a QB wants to exploit a guy like Chung they will have to do it without their strongest receiving unit on the field because he would be sitting in that situation. And i think that we will see certain players getting more reps in one game and others in other games, so it won't be just a constant rotation or shuffle within the game as it will be match-up oriented for the team they are playing.

I do think Ryan has potential to be the best safety in the team (besides McC), but it does make the decision of drafting Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon all more dubious.

Ivan said:

I still don't understand why they gave Arrington that deal? Decent slot guy but that is it.

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Posters often do not have the same valuations as Belichick.

You think of Arrington as a decent slot guy and think that slot guys aren't worth $3M-$4M a year.

Belichick thinks that the best slot guys are well worth that money, and that Arrington is one of those guys.

Our nickel back (slot guy) is on the field about 70% of the time, more against certain teams. On of our starting DT's and 3rd LB are on the field less than that amount. A nickel back is as valuable as many of our starters. Some would think that we should consider that we have 2 "starting" linebackers and 3 "starting" corner backs.

Perhaps worth noting that the guys they're "leaving" at CB — Revis, Browner, Dennard, Arrington — are the better press guys and the guys they've moved/ing were weak in that area but with good route recognition and ball skills, i.e. Ryan and McCourty.

I would expect to see a lot of press man and Seahawks-style cover 3 press.

JayNM said:

I do think Ryan has potential to be the best safety in the team (besides McC), but it does make the decision of drafting Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon all more dubious.

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Why, they drafted Ryan as a CB and they drafted Wilson a year before him so Ryan wasn't even a consideration? I can understand the view that Wilson is closing in on bust territory but they were trying to fill the need to the best of their ability when they made the pick. it looks now like they were wrong and many here were right but they are still the ones with all of the information, we are just throwing darts.

mgteich said:

Posters often do not have the same valuations as Belichick.

You think of Arrington as a decent slot guy and think that slot guys aren't worth $3M-$4M a year.

Belichick thinks that the best slot guys are well worth that money, and that Arrington is one of those guys.

Our nickel back (slot guy) is on the field about 70% of the time, more against certain teams. On of our starting DT's and 3rd LB are on the field less than that amount. A nickel back is as valuable as many of our starters. Some would think that we should consider that we have 2 "starting" linebackers and 3 "starting" corner backs.

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I agree, Belichick sees things very differently and i don't have an ounce of the knowledge he does i just think Arrington is a really average player who is overpaid.

Ivan said:

Why, they drafted Ryan as a CB and they drafted Wilson a year before him so Ryan wasn't even a consideration? I can understand the view that Wilson is closing in on bust territory but they were trying to fill the need to the best of their ability when they made the pick. it looks now like they were wrong and many here were right but they are still the ones with all of the information, we are just throwing darts.

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Tavon Wilson was a pick made out of desperation. NO ONE who didn't work for the patriots considered him a top prospect at safety (most thought he was a mediocre corner). We were desperate to sign a safety. The availability of safeties that year when we picked was much worse than the 2014 situation at TE. Belichick took a shot. He missed. The only question remaining is whether Wilson is worth keeping as a backup, as our 4th or 5th safety or as our 10th defensive back.

Apparently, Belichick has moved on, although Wilson could still make the team. We have McCourty, Harmon and Ryan as our safeties. Belichick even brought in a #4 in Chung (starter for Philly, #4 for us).

The coverage ability in the back end will be elite. He'll probably need to be subbed out on obvious running downs, though.

This draft was very rich in corners. Much better options in middle rounds than arrington who really isn't anything to brag about in the slot either. Multiple standout corners will step up from the middle rounds of this draft.

Browner well be used at as more n more. His skill set screams ss. He has the ability to play ss as high of a level as its ever been played or higher. 6'3 225 corner cover ability. And a physical sure tackler. He will be a rare ss who can cover elite te's man up while sliding over and able to cover n pick up most wr's from ss spot. He is better in coverage than chancellor.His flaw was speed and he is nearing 30. Fast wrs have been burning him. But that's not a problem at ss. Bill can pick browner's spots as a ss, when he isn't on a te he can occasionally roll him toward big physical wr's who might have good speed but not burners. He can select browner matchups with certain wr's from the ss spot but at corner he will end up in bad matchups with burner wr's like Emanuel sanders, marquise Lee or Torrey smith and risked beaten deep. But as ss he will be all pro next 2 yrs.

This draft was very rich in corners. Much better options in middle rounds than arrington who really isn't anything to brag about in the slot either. Multiple standout corners will step up from the middle rounds of this draft.

Browner well be used at as more n more. His skill set screams ss. He has the ability to play ss as high of a level as its ever been played or higher. 6'3 225 corner cover ability. And a physical sure tackler. He will be a rare ss who can cover elite te's man up while sliding over and able to cover n pick up most wr's from ss spot. He is better in coverage than chancellor.His flaw was speed and he is nearing 30. Fast wrs have been burning him. But that's not a problem at ss. Bill can pick browner's spots as a ss, when he isn't on a te he can occasionally roll him toward big physical wr's who might have good speed but not burners. He can select browner matchups with certain wr's from the ss spot but at corner he will end up in bad matchups with burner wr's like Emanuel sanders, marquise Lee or Torrey smith and risked beaten deep. But as ss he will be all pro next 2 yrs.

KontradictioN said:

The coverage ability in the back end will be elite. He'll probably need to be subbed out on obvious running downs, though.

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Why?

Marqui said:

Why?

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To use someone stronger against the run.

mgteich said:

Apparently, Belichick has moved on, although Wilson could still make the team. We have McCourty, Harmon and Ryan as our safeties. Belichick even brought in a #4 in Chung (starter for Philly, #4 for us).

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First don't assume that Ryan is a "safety" just yet. Like I've said before, don't get too caught up in labels this year, they aren't going to mean as much as in the past. I think we will see a lot of so called CB's playing back in the middle this year.

As for Wilson, I think he was less of a desperate shot in the dark by BB, than an acknowledgement of the new normal in the NFL pass game. The passing of the position torch from the typical strong safety skill set of the 1990's, to a S who is as much a CB/cover guy as a straight up S.

In the past the typical "SS" was a guy who was a big part of run support and needed the skills to function as such. But when teams pass 2/3rds of the time, there is less a need for that. Now both S's have to cover well. In picking Wilson, BB was hoping he'd find a guy who could be tough enough to function "in the box", but have the coverage skills to stay with receivers all over the field. In other words a guy who Steve Gregory's mind, only with a quicker more athletic and stronger body.

Wilson, IMO, had a fine rookie year. The only issues he had were the couple of times he made some bad reads and was beaten in the play action passing game. I have no idea why he didn't seem to progress in his 2nd year, but I would guess it was a combination of making mistakes during TC, and then losing confidence. The kid has a nose for the ball. He has 5 picks in 2 years of very limited playing time. He was a fine special teamer last year, and I have some hope for him (albeit not a lot) this season. Its way too early to simply write him off (much like most were doing to Edelman this time last year)

But I digress (what's new). The key point is that BB seems to want Safeties who also have CB skills. Thus we have McCourty, Wilson, Thomas, Ryan, Harmon, and even Chung (IIRC) who have all spent time at the CB position, and will be working as "safeties" this TC. Its why I'm more adamant than ever that our secondary will be made up less of CB's and Safeties, and more by "just" assorted DB's in various configurations.

PP2 said:

I suspect that Arrington is done here and Dennard will be moved to the slot.

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I think the defensive backfield will be changed up this coming season

The Ryan to safety move is interesting. They probably just want to be sure they have the flexibility to go from a 2 S look to single safety look with the same personnel on the field.

The more interesting thing to me this year though is Harmon. I think 95% of the people on here were impressed enough with Ryan to see him as a clear long term player. Harmon however showed less but still did decently enough.

Revis, Browner. Dennard, Ryan, Arrington, McCourty are all set. We tend to feel they are proven commodities. However depending on how Harmon's 2nd year jump goes safety could turn a little thin.

I think he will work out though but it is one of the things in camp that is worth keeping an eye on.

Ivan said:

To use someone stronger against the run.

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How do they know for sure when other teams are going to run?

Marqui said:

How do they know for sure when other teams are going to run?

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The opposing QB tells them.

Marqui said:

How do they know for sure when other teams are going to run?

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If I told you it would cost us a #1 pick and a wicked big fine