Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

Ivan said:

Johnson has to know that the Texans have a really good team and are not far being back in the hunt, and I just don't think he is going to be willing to redo his massive deal and take a big pay cut to go to a top team, and that's what it will take as no one can trade for him under his current deal as it won't work for either side. Like any other patsfan i can hope i am wrong and they manage too finagle him from Houston but if I am betting I say they work it out and he keeps playing there, that's almost always the way these matters end.

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if you don't have a QB that is ready to lead your team, you are far from the hunt. There is no doubt that Houston is talented, but they need a veteran QB to be a bus driver for them if they are going to compete next year.

TommyBrady12 said:

if you don't have a QB that is ready to lead your team, you are far from the hunt. There is no doubt that Houston is talented, but they need a veteran QB to be a bus driver for them if they are going to compete next year.

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He is not great, but he is experienced and did start for several years with a poor team, the Bills. Fitz is no dummy, and should recognize that all he has to do is be a game manager, make few mistakes, and the Texans will win.

It may not be championship level, but it should be good enough to produce a winning season with the talent on that team.

kennyb said:

If johnson is traded texas take the cap hit for unamortized payments. There's no way around that. "Tearing up his contract and signing for vet min"...what? That makes no sense. They (texans) would still take a cap hit and now johnson just agreed to play for vet min? Don't think so.

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But not as big a cap hit. Ideally it would be a 1 year deal almost all salary, so the Texans would have a minimum amount to amortize, when the trade went through subsequently. The new team would have to have Cap room, and would be getting him for almost all salary with an inducement to re-negotiate the deal for multiple years to reduce the cap hit incurred. The new contract could even say the contract ends if traded, and AJ is a FA. So the new team had best make a good offer and sign him.

AzPatsFan said:

But not as big a cap hit. Ideally it would be a 1 year deal almost all salary, so the Texans would have a minimum amount to amortize, when the trade went through subsequently. The new team would have to have Cap room, and would be getting him for almost all salary with an inducement to re-negotiate the deal for multiple years to reduce the cap hit incurred. The new contract could even say the contract ends if traded, and AJ is a FA. So the new team had best make a good offer and sign him.

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If they cut him, trade him or "rip up his contract"( which would be the same as a cut) the cap hit is the same.
If they Resign him to a one year salary (no bonus) and then trade, then there is no cap hit from that new contract. The cap hit from cutting the old contract or trading him would be the exact same.
So no, they wouldn't "rip up the old contract and sign him to a new one" and then trade him to the pats (who would sign him to a third contract). It makes no sense.

Why is the "rip up old contract and sign to new one before trading" technique not done in general if it magically gets rid of cap hits?

AzPatsFan said:

He is not great, but he is experienced and did start for several years with a poor team, the Bills. Fitz is no dummy, and should recognize that all he has to do is be a game manager, make few mistakes, and the Texans will win.

It may not be championship level, but it should be good enough to produce a winning season with the talent on that team.

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I think that this will be a highly debatable topic re: the potential of Ryan Fitzpatrick to be their starter this year, but I actually agree with many of your thoughts. If he can hand the ball off to Foster, chuck it up to his receivers, and lessen his INTs by "just" 5 or so total throughout the year, the Texans have a good enough defense to allow Fitzpatrick to do better than he ever did in Buffalo.

Since the odds of that happening are admittedly a bit iffy, the Texans have done a decent enough job of having backups like Keenum and Yates remain on the team, who have held down the fort before. Add in the selection of new draft pick Tom Savage, and I have a hard time seeing how a guy like Ryan Mallett would really stick out enough in this group of so-so quarterbacks. It isn't like he's exactly set the world on fire himself, and at least 3/4 of their QBs on the roster have NFL experience--unlike the situation of Mallett.

Now, one can argue that Mallett may have a higher upside than some of these names, but no one knows if that is true or not. The bottom line is that giving up a high draft pick or good player probably wouldn't have been in the best interest. Again...some will see it differently, just like any other topic.

ripatsfan91 said:

Did Baltimore get fleeced getting a 6th for Boldin? Did buffalo get fleeced with a 4th for Johnson? What about Brandon Marshall?

.

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As good as Boldin and Johnson are neither is a first ballot Hall of Famer who went on to have a record setting year for TD's after being traded, and neither will get a higher pick when their team gets rid of them than they used for them. If you think that Bill O'Brien is going to give Andre johnson away then so be it, i think you are dead wrong and that he will do everything he can to work it out and would only give him up for a serious offer, i.e..a 1st round pick and maybe then some.

I have no doubt that if both teams want to make this trade, they'll figure out how to make it work under the cap.

I just don't see it as a trade both teams want to make. When it comes to Johnson, Texans will want more than the Patriots are willing to give - just like how when it comes to Mallett, the Patriots apparently want more than the Texans are willing to give.

Please do not do logical analysis in these trade fantasy threads. It ruins them.

Wait, I thought Ryan Mallet was the starting QB for the Texans? I hear he is pretty good.

Johnson has been a great receiver for a long time, and really has not had a top notch QB. I bet he would love a chance to play with TFB, but as so many have already pointed out, his dead money hit, would be too much for the Texans to absorb, and makes any trade almost impossible.

Mallet n a #2 pick could do it. Cap hit or not he is near 33,doesn't wanna b there n by the time they find their franchise qb will b ordinary. It depends how high they r on mallet. Or we could trade mallet for a #3 n package that with a #2 n find a team looking to unload a legit wr for cap space,or rebuilding. The cowboys aren't letting bryant go so they need to shop.perhaps. a talented wr catching from a bad qb but ready to breakout is n option. But prob is teams aren't looking to deal talented playmakers even when underachieving cuz they could breakout n they will look like ***es unless they get at least decent compensation. So there's not many options. If riley cooper n the rookieThat, the eagles could deal maclin whose under a one yr deal,however does he still have his explosiveness after all the injuries. Brian quick many feel is dripping with talent. Is it him or is it lack of a qb. It would take some compensation to get him n there's much homework 2 b done there. But his ceiling is high as Gordon's. Britt would have been cheap but his talent still being present is in question, nonetheless at least potential is there,kinda beats somebody that clearly lacks talent n always has. That is pretty much it. Rice has declined as has denario from injuries. Andre may b the best option. We must b careful with his age but he is fanatical with conditioning n nutrition n has carried mediocre qbs. That being said he is probably our best option n only hope should we have to win a shootout in January or need some plays made in a tight game come January. And we have a shot at him. I have always said I want the next guy that's gonna get 15000 yards receiving, not the last guy. But since they didn't get one in the draft that's not n option 4 us. Unless we take a flyer. Perhaps Justin Blackman is n idea. I know its a long shot n he is suspended BUT he wouldn't cost but a 4th rd pick and is a rare talent. He is also still young n only did Maryjane. Many great wr's had problems at some time,moss,carter,Irvin,rison,keyshawn,burress n went on to great careers. We could trade for him n bill could write a letter to goodell on his behalf explaining his mistake n how he will correct it and wants to fly straight. Also how he works hard in practice but most of all never had in Jacksonville any leadership or strong disciplined structure and clean environment that promotes hard work,discipline and winning environment there and how he has it here. How he is a good young man that we can certainly make productive on n off the field n wants to put his past behind him. Also include how we believe he would never have had those problems here and wasnt given that structure in Jacksonville's losing undisciplined environment that lacks structure n care for its players as its losing demonstrates. And ensure that the past is behind him and he wants it there n is ashamed of it and assure goodell that will never b a problem with him here. Also allowing him to return to our team n compete within our structure is a vital part of his success off the field as well as on the field. He and our organization is asking for a chance to prove it. I know there is red tape here but this is true bout him in Jacksonville. And a cheap option for a true talent at wr for us and there is zero risk on our part. I know Andre is most solid option but let's at least explore cheaper options provided talent is there or else its not worthwhile.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Only about 400 times.

God save us from the Mallet torture.

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Just wait until Jimmy G is on the block.

Did you know that he tailored his game to be like Tom Bradys?

TommyBrady12 said:

if you don't have a QB that is ready to lead your team, you are far from the hunt. There is no doubt that Houston is talented, but they need a veteran QB to be a bus driver for them if they are going to compete next year.

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Brady was not a veteran when he led the Patriots to the superbowl.

Not to be pedantic but Brady was not a rookie. He was a 2nd year player.
I agree that he was not a veteran in that he had zero prior starts.

The ultimate question is how much better does Johnson make this team? Johnson is a player that commands targets generally in the neighborhood of 160-180 per season. We have Edelman and Amendola both whom require significant targets to produce, so who is getting cut out and how much more is Johnson going to give us than they would?

In addition like it or not Johnson will take reps from Dobson and Boyce, which will delay their development as players. We have two receivers capable of having 100+ catch season with Edelman and Amendola, two players capable of 50-75 catches with Dobson and LaFell, Gronkowski is the best TE in the game, and Vereen is capable of leading all NFL RBs in receiving. I just do not see the need based on the type of investment we would be making.

PP2 said:

Brady was not a veteran when he led the Patriots to the superbowl.

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And how many times has a first year starter ever won the Super Bowl? I can think of only two - brady, and the guy he beat in SB 36, Kurt Warner.

TommyBrady12 said:

And how many times has a first year starter ever won the Super Bowl? I can think of only two - brady, and the guy he beat in SB 36, Kurt Warner.

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The point being that fielding a veteran QB isn't always necessary to be competitive.

It may be that Johnson has gotten wind of who the de facto starter is, and doesn't like it.

Brady6 said:

The ultimate question is how much better does Johnson make this team? Johnson is a player that commands targets generally in the neighborhood of 160-180 per season. We have Edelman and Amendola both whom require significant targets to produce, so who is getting cut out and how much more is Johnson going to give us than they would?

In addition like it or not Johnson will take reps from Dobson and Boyce, which will delay their development as players. We have two receivers capable of having 100+ catch season with Edelman and Amendola, two players capable of 50-75 catches with Dobson and LaFell, Gronkowski is the best TE in the game, and Vereen is capable of leading all NFL RBs in receiving. I just do not see the need based on the type of investment we would be making.

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I don't see the "need" either, but I wouldn't imagine that too many of us would have problems moving Dobson down in the pecking order, should it come down to it.

That said, I have a very hard time envisioning a "Mallett for Johnson" trade. As a matter of fact, there's probably a better chance that neither of them are moved, vs. both of them.

supafly said:

That said, I have a very hard time envisioning a "Mallett for Johnson" trade.

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That's becasue it doesn't make any sense

Brady_to_Moss said:

That's becasue it doesn't make any sense

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I was trying to tip toe around any strong wording or bold predictions, but yes....you are probably right!

supafly said:

I was trying to tip toe around any strong wording or bold predictions, but yes....you are probably right!

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Houston should be smart enough to see that as a bad trade. But who knows.

I am done holding out hope they will give Brady 1 more great WR to end his career. Would love another..but don't see it happening