Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

brdmaverick said:

Nor did Corey Dillon and Randy Moss before New England, but you can see how much they can add when complimented with the right kind of players and environment the Patriots provide.

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Yeah.. Moss didn't win anything..

Has anyone brought this up? The Texans were interested in Mallett and Andre Johnson does not seem to want to be there.

Could this trade make sense?

Ironman44 said:

Has anyone brought this up? The Texans were interested in Mallett and Andre Johnson does not seem to want to be there.

Could this trade make sense?

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If you added draft pick to the trade on the Patriots side then maybe.

Ironman44 said:

Has anyone brought this up? The Texans were interested in Mallett and Andre Johnson does not seem to want to be there.

Could this trade make sense?

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first I've heard of it

Hypothetical: If the Patriots get Andre for Mallet and a 2nd or 3rd round pick... (assuming health) is this team more talented than the 2007 team?

Brady
Ridley/Vereen
Andre Johnson
Aaron Dobson
Edelman in the slot
Gronkowski
Solder
Mankins
Wendell/Stork
Connolly/Kline
Vollmer

Chandler Jones
Easley
Wilfork
Nink
Hightower
Mayo
Collins
Revis
Browner
Dennard
McCourty
Ryan/Harmon

ripatsfan91 said:

Hypothetical: If the Patriots get Andre for Mallet and a 2nd or 3rd round pick... (assuming health) is this team more talented than the 2007 team?

Brady
Ridley/Vereen
Andre Johnson
Aaron Dobson
Edelman in the slot
Gronkowski
Solder
Mankins
Wendell/Stork
Connolly/Kline
Vollmer

Chandler Jones
Easley
Wilfork
Nink
Hightower
Mayo
Collins
Revis
Browner
Dennard
McCourty
Ryan/Harmon

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Takes some "ifs", but I can see it.

I think it's realistic to expect Collins and Jones to take the next step that comes with experience.

And I think it's realistic to expect one of either Dobson or Boyce or even Thompkins to grow their 2nd year into a reliable #2 or #3 WR.

And if Wilfork can come back at 85%+ of his old self.. thats one dangerous team we will be fielding.

We've traded for WRs before - remember Moss and Welker? If AJ becomes available I'm sure BB will do due diligence. If anyone leaves in an AJ trade I believe it would be Amendola or Mallett before Dobson. It's much more effective to have two 6'2+ receivers available to go than one. And I'd rather give up a straight up 2nd than offer Dobson + a 3rd. That would just make no sense value-wise.

The main obstacle I see to this trade is the salary cap. AJ probably needs to be willing to tear up his old contract to make this happen.

VJCPatriot said:

We've traded for WRs before - remember Moss and Welker? If AJ becomes available I'm sure BB will do due diligence. If anyone leaves in an AJ trade I believe it would be Amendola or Mallett before Dobson. It's much more effective to have two 6'2+ receivers available to go than one. And I'd rather give up a straight up 2nd than offer Dobson + a 3rd. That would just make no sense value-wise.

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I agree, trying not to get my expectations up but after Revis signing its hard not to. If we do trade for him, I wouldn't include Dobson at all in it.

2nd round pick and a new 3 year deal for Andre that would allow him to fit under our cap would be perfect.

Fencer said:

As noted above, Johnson's value is in the range of a one-year underpaid rental. A deal probably doesn't happen unless he renegotiates his contract first. He's probably worth a high pick on that basis; after all, Dillon got a #2 for the Bengals.

If such a deal were to happen -- then yeah, part of the compensation might be one of the Patriots' rookie receivers, and another part might be Mallett.

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Excellent post. Makes sense. I said this in the beginning of the year and was giggled at. Pitch forks and torches were passed out.

I don't believe the Pats are that aggressive lately. I hope that is wrong.

The BB mantra is "We do what's best for the Team"....really Bill? Prove it...... I say that Johnson is that one piece that gives us at least two more wins. Hopefully in post season competition. Nothing in the Draft looking promising for 2014. Easley could start on PUP. Some might be eventual starters but no game changers for sure. Very mediocre Draft.

Mallett won't help in 2014 (we hope we don't find out) and our 2015 second round pick won't help this year either.

So add Johnson to Revis and Browner (sorry I am not that thrilled with LaFell and Smith might be another PUP guy) and I think we gained on the field.

Sign Johnson to an extension and get this done.
DW Toys

DW Toys said:

I say that Johnson is that one piece that gives us at least two more wins.

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Are you looking at some sort of stat comparable to baseball's WAR or did you just make that up off the top of your head? I don't think you can quantify things in football the same way.

brdmaverick said:

The reality is that Dobson is still a wild card. While we all dream of him being a great player, it's still not known if he'll be the next Branch/Givens or Chad Jackson/Brandon Tate.

With Andre Johnson there is no doubt, he is elite. TIme is not on Brady's side, so the I think most on this board would prefer to take their chances (and Brady's last few productive years) with a sure thing vs potential/hope.

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Who cares what some fans think? It what BB thinks that counts.

He won't do it unless AJ's remuneration goes down greatly. He doesn't have the CAP room. The Texans won't do it unless AJ tears up his present contract, and signs a near vet minimum deal, before the trade, so they don't get killed in dead money.

AJ has his choice but I'll bet he won't renounce his great present contract. He gets lots of money; its almost guaranteed because the Texans can't afford to cut him before he is 35 or so. Then he can go to a contender if any would want him, then.

Ever since the Moss trade we have had unrealistic expectations about getting guys like Johnson and Fitzgerald. The truth is that the Patriots got him because Al Davis was so senile that he didn't realize he was being fleeced and other GM's are not going to make deals as bad as that one. O'Brien is going to smooth this over with Johnson and he won't be traded unless some team ponies up real value for him, not Mallett and a mid round pick.

Ivan said:

Ever since the Moss trade we have had unrealistic expectations about getting guys like Johnson and Fitzgerald. The truth is that the Patriots got him because Al Davis was so senile that he didn't realize he was being fleeced and other GM's are not going to make deals as bad as that one. O'Brien is going to smooth this over with Johnson and he won't be traded unless some team ponies up real value for him, not Mallett and a mid round pick.

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I have to disagree about BOB smoothing things over with AJ. Johnson wants to win NOW and there is nothing BOB can do about it. His starting quarterback is a rookie who will take several years to develop. By then, Johnson will be 35.

The other thing to consider is BB wanted to sign Steve Smith, which leads me to believe he still wants to upgrade the receiver position.

TommyBrady12 said:

I have to disagree about BOB smoothing things over with AJ. Johnson wants to win NOW and there is nothing BOB can do about it. His starting quarterback is a rookie who will take several years to develop. By then, Johnson will be 35.

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Johnson has to know that the Texans have a really good team and are not far being back in the hunt, and I just don't think he is going to be willing to redo his massive deal and take a big pay cut to go to a top team, and that's what it will take as no one can trade for him under his current deal as it won't work for either side. Like any other patsfan i can hope i am wrong and they manage too finagle him from Houston but if I am betting I say they work it out and he keeps playing there, that's almost always the way these matters end.

AzPatsFan said:

Who cares what some fans think? It what BB thinks that counts.

He won't do it unless AJ's remuneration goes down greatly. He doesn't have the CAP room. The Texans won't do it unless AJ tears up his present contract, and signs a near vet minimum deal, before the trade, so they don't get killed in dead money.

AJ has his choice but I'll bet he won't renounce his great present contract. He gets lots of money; its almost guaranteed because the Texans can't afford to cut him before he is 35 or so. Then he can go to a contender if any would want him, then.

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If johnson is traded texas take the cap hit for unamortized payments. There's no way around that. "Tearing up his contract and signing for vet min"...what? That makes no sense. They (texans) would still take a cap hit and now johnson just agreed to play for vet min? Don't think so.

Ivan said:

Ever since the Moss trade we have had unrealistic expectations about getting guys like Johnson and Fitzgerald. The truth is that the Patriots got him because Al Davis was so senile that he didn't realize he was being fleeced and other GM's are not going to make deals as bad as that one. O'Brien is going to smooth this over with Johnson and he won't be traded unless some team ponies up real value for him, not Mallett and a mid round pick.

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Did Baltimore get fleeced getting a 6th for Boldin? Did buffalo get fleeced with a 4th for Johnson? What about Brandon Marshall?

I don't think there is really anything bill can do to smooth things over with Andre sounds like he is just tired of playing on a losing team. Their roster might have some talent but it doesn't change they will likely be a 6 or 7 win team for the next two years. Even when they were contending in 2012, they were exposed by the real strong teams.

AJ just seems positive he wants out of Houston. I disagree that we can get him for vet minimum but if he wants to play for a contender he probably understands he will need to redo his contract 2 year deal 16 million 8 guaranteed.

Ivan said:

Johnson has to know that the Texans have a really good team and are not far being back in the hunt, and I just don't think he is going to be willing to redo his massive deal and take a big pay cut to go to a top team, and that's what it will take as no one can trade for him under his current deal as it won't work for either side. Like any other patsfan i can hope i am wrong and they manage too finagle him from Houston but if I am betting I say they work it out and he keeps playing there, that's almost always the way these matters end.

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That's the thing - it's not necessarily true that Johnson wants to make the same amount of money.

Ironman44 said:

Has anyone brought this up? The Texans were interested in Mallett and Andre Johnson does not seem to want to be there.

Could this trade make sense?

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Only about 400 times.

God save us from the Mallet torture.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Only about 400 times.

God save us from the Mallet torture.

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It's funny the things that bothers us individually.

I probably dont have say how much it irks me the way DI for instance can get so patronizing to the people he's talking down to. :L

And yet things like how the Cassel and Mallet hype and other similar topics get brought up over and over just doesn't bother me in the slightest.