The Most Questionable 2014 Draft Choice

AzorianPats said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...nds-with-vikings-as-result-of-careful-qb-hunt

According to Burt Breer, if the Vikings couldn't have landed Manziel or Bridgewater, they were willing to take Garrapolo at #40

Click to expand...

I think what you are misunderstanding is that many of us are not anti JG, we actually like him as a player, we just do not like the pick for this team because it was not necessary, and the way the contracts align with JG entering UFA the offseason Brady is likely to retire it did not make sense to draft his heir apparent in 2014.

makoute said:

Along with a second and fourth round draft pick during that time period.

Click to expand...

And they have $33M left in guaranteed money allocated to the QB position, so you could make an even more compelling argument against drafting a QB by those same standards of "but we've already invested so much..."

FWIW, on the thread about how the FO let Brady down again, I was making a similar argument: that they'd already made enough investments in WRs that opting not to make more in this draft couldn't be considered an automatic failure. I do understand the position that you're taking, and I agree to a point. But that said, needs aren't defined by the investments that you've made into a position: they're defined by the output that you get from those investments. Look at what the Pats have invested in the safety position over the last few years. Yet safety is still, without a doubt, a position of need. Conversely, if you draft a really good center or guard in the 7th round, then it stops being a need, regardless of how little you invested.

In the case of WR, we're somewhere between the two. We've invested a pretty good amount of money and draft capital in the position, and the return has been a mixed bag. It's not a gaping hole, but there's still a lot of room to improve. None of the guys on the roster, whether they're FAs or draftees, have become anything in the ballpark of a WR1, at least to this point. I could still see Dobson doing it, and I'm hopeful that he'll make a real leap in that direction this year. But he's not there yet, so drafting another guy who could get there is just playing the percentages, and acknowledging that the draft is an imperfect process where you will frequently miss. There were guys who were available who could have helped, without question. I wouldn't have taken them, since I think there are bigger needs that would have been better served by picking other players instead, but the need is most definitely still there, until someone in a Patriots uniform takes a significant step forward.

Brady6 said:

I think what you are misunderstanding is that many of us are not anti JG, we actually like him as a player, we just do not like the pick for this team because it was not necessary, and the way the contracts align with JG entering UFA the offseason Brady is likely to retire it did not make sense to draft his heir apparent in 2014.

Click to expand...

B6 look back at some of the posts. Some don't like the player.

Brady6 said:

You know what you all fail to realize is that JG is going to sign a 4-year contract and will be an UFA the same offseason Brady's contract expires and he is expected to retire. So unless you are forcing Brady out early there is no guarantee that JG will have even taken more than garbage time snaps before we have to resign him, and if he promising what if we get outbid for his services, or are you tagging a player who potentially has never started a game.

Click to expand...

Brady is only signed through the 2017 off-season. Garoppolo, on a 4 year deal, will be signed through the 2018 season (2014/2015, 2015/2016,2016/2017, 2017/2018). That Nullifies your arguments about possibly having to franchise Garoppolo. Also, if Garoppolo becomes the starter in 2017/2018, the Pats will have plenty of game film on him to offer him a contract fitting of his abilities (whatever they may be).

Brady6 said:

Also it is idiotic to believe that JG will ever be close to the player Brady is, he is late second round pick from a small school, with average at best arm strength, and is undersized but sure lets just assume he just fills the GOATs void.

Click to expand...

Garoppolo is undersized? At 6'2 and 2/8" tall? That makes him taller than Russell Wilson, Case Keenum, Drew Brees, and Doug Flutie. Slightly taller than Andy Dalton (6'2) , Brian Hoyer (6'2), Christian Ponder (6'2), and Aaron Rodgers (6'2) . Slightly shorter than RG III (6'2-3/8), Andy Dalton (6'2-5/8), Matt Barkley (6'2-4/8), and Ryan Fitzpatrick (6'2-3/8). My point is that size doesn't determine QB success in and of itself.

Brady was said to have "average at best" arm strength when he came out of college. In fact, it was one of the biggest knocks on him. And Brady sure didn't have much muscle tone in his abs, as shown by the Combine Photo of him that is less than complimentary..

No one is predicting that Garoppolo will be as good as Brady. No one. What people are saying is that the Pats are clearly looking to develop Garoppolo into Brady's heir. A player who can step in and win them games at the QB position. I have not seen one person even come close to making the claim that Garoppolo will even be in Canton. I only hope that he can step in and be an adequate replacement to keep the team from being as bad as they were in the early 90s before Kraft and Bledsoe.

BradyFTW! said:

And they have $33M left in guaranteed money allocated to the QB position, so you could make an even more compelling argument against drafting a QB by those same standards of "but we've already invested so much..."

FWIW, on the thread about how the FO let Brady down again, I was making a similar argument: that they'd already made enough investments in WRs that opting not to make more in this draft couldn't be considered an automatic failure. I do understand the position that you're taking, and I agree to a point. But that said, needs aren't defined by the investments that you've made into a position: they're defined by the output that you get from those investments. Look at what the Pats have invested in the safety position over the last few years. Yet safety is still, without a doubt, a position of need. Conversely, if you draft a really good center or guard in the 7th round, then it stops being a need, regardless of how little you invested.

In the case of WR, we're somewhere between the two. We've invested a pretty good amount of money and draft capital in the position, and the return has been a mixed bag. It's not a gaping hole, but there's still a lot of room to improve. None of the guys on the roster, whether they're FAs or draftees, have become anything in the ballpark of a WR1, at least to this point. I could still see Dobson doing it, and I'm hopeful that he'll make a real leap in that direction this year. But he's not there yet, so drafting another guy who could get there is just playing the percentages, and acknowledging that the draft is an imperfect process where you will frequently miss. There were guys who were available who could have helped, without question. I wouldn't have taken them, since I think there are bigger needs that would have been better served by picking other players instead, but the need is most definitely still there, until someone in a Patriots uniform takes a significant step forward.

Click to expand...

Maybe the Pats think the investment they made in the WR corp is ready to payoff and they felt they didn't need to invest high there for this draft period. Where as they feel that they are not getting the return on investment in Mallet? Only time will tell whether they were wise in thinking that, it seems fairly obvious, that they don't see Mallet as a starter in NE with that draft pick. Because there is absolutely no logic to drafting a backup to your backup that high.

FreeTedWilliams said:

any how many players from Towson were drafted over the weekend??? (the answer is one, a RB in the third round). He has played nobody!!! No SEC team, No Big Ten team, hell not even a "don't call us the Big East" anymore team. As far as I can see the only guy he played against that he might see on Sundays was Ward from Northern Illinois. Any stat he put up against this competition is worthless!

There is no way you can justify using a second round pick on him, none. Not for this team.

Click to expand...

So, now it's his fault that Eastern Illinois didn't play Minnesota and Ohio St. like it will this year (2014 season). They did play SDSU and Northern Illinois. Both of which were D1 schools. How about you look at the fact that each year from 2011 through 2013, the team improved... From a 2-7 record to 12-2. Doesn't that count?

Who, exactly, did Joe Flacco play against when he went to Delaware? Who did Kurt Warner play against when he went to Northern Iowa?

And as mediocre as Tony Romo has been, the Dallas team and coaching staff has been a giant cluster..

Let's remember that many here & elsewhere criticized 6' 2" NY Jet Sanchez as not fitting the physical requirements of a 21st century NFL QB. Me, I'm a big Russell Wilson fan. As to JAG, I hope he's a Top 10 NFL QB, but none of us including the Patriots coaches know how he'll turn out. They just played the percentages of how well he fit their extensive criteria.

DaBruinz said:

So, now it's his fault that Eastern Illinois didn't play Minnesota and Ohio St. like it will this year (2014 season). They did play SDSU and Northern Illinois. Both of which were D1 schools. How about you look at the fact that each year from 2011 through 2013, the team improved... From a 2-7 record to 12-2. Doesn't that count?

Who, exactly, did Joe Flacco play against when he went to Delaware? Who did Kurt Warner play against when he went to Northern Iowa?

And as mediocre as Tony Romo has been, the Dallas team and coaching staff has been a giant cluster..

Click to expand...

Flacco was at Pitt, got beat out by Tyler Panko. Warner got valuable experience in NFL Europe, without it, he would still be bagging groceries. Still there is no way you can say that judging by what any player did, as a QB, in the Ohio Valley Conference, you can project his success in the NFL. Did anyone here honestly not think that Andrew Luck (Pro style offense in college, played in a major conference, against big time talent, father was a QB, etc.) wasn't going to be a good if not great NFL QB? Check out Brady's college days, all he did was lead comebacks, because they were starting the wrong guy! I remember predicting (along with half of the draft board) how bad Jemarcus Russell was going to be. It's not rocket science, most of the good to great NFL QBs come from either the SEC or the Pac-12. The two best conferences. Sure every once in 50 years, you'll get a Kurt Warner, I don't think anyone is putting Fresno St's Trent Dilfer on the good to great list are they? Steve McNair was a great QB out of Alcorn St.

I'm not saying, he will never be a good NFL QB, BUT I highly doubt it. From what I've read the best thing he has is a quick release, but his arm angle is terrible, he is not tall enough and he is completely unproven against anything he will see in the NFL. None of that says #62 pick in the draft! For God's sake get Brady a big WR for the outside, another pass rusher, or God forbid, anyone who can actually play safety!! It's a horrible pick, for the Patriots in 2014 at #62. As my Cousin Vinnie once said, "it's OK, everybody knows, you can say it..."

ripatsfan91 said:

As for the rest:



5. Jamea Thomas and Gallon. Both guys likely don't stand a shot at making the roster. Wild cards who might show something in camp. I think some UDFA will likely make a bigger impact than these guys. For instance, think that UDFA S from Rutgers Deering, has more potential and more likely to make the 53 than Thomas. Ditto with Justin Jones and Gallon (TE vs WR I know but both OW).

Click to expand...

I saw Gallon play in college and thought he would be perfect for our system. Good hands, excellent at getting open. If he can play on one or more ST units, he's a lock.

I don't know anything about Thomas.

FreeTedWilliams said:

Flacco was at Pitt, got beat out by Tyler Panko. Warner got valuable experience in NFL Europe, without it, he would still be bagging groceries. Still there is no way you can say that judging by what any player did, as a QB, in the Ohio Valley Conference, you can project his success in the NFL. Did anyone here honestly not think that Andrew Luck (Pro style offense in college, played in a major conference, against big time talent, father was a QB, etc.) wasn't going to be a good if not great NFL QB? Check out Brady's college days, all he did was lead comebacks, because they were starting the wrong guy! I remember predicting (along with half of the draft board) how bad Jemarcus Russell was going to be. It's not rocket science, most of the good to great NFL QBs come from either the SEC or the Pac-12. The two best conferences. Sure every once in 50 years, you'll get a Kurt Warner, I don't think anyone is putting Fresno St's Trent Dilfer on the good to great list are they? Steve McNair was a great QB out of Alcorn St.

I'm not saying, he will never be a good NFL QB, BUT I highly doubt it. From what I've read the best thing he has is a quick release, but his arm angle is terrible, he is not tall enough and he is completely unproven against anything he will see in the NFL. None of that says #62 pick in the draft! For God's sake get Brady a big WR for the outside, another pass rusher, or God forbid, anyone who can actually play safety!! It's a horrible pick, for the Patriots in 2014 at #62. As my Cousin Vinnie once said, "it's OK, everybody knows, you can say it..."

Click to expand...

He's 6'2 2/4 which I showed has no reflection on how good/bad a QB will be in the NFL. Secondly, you're discounting the fact that he's actually been given credit on his able to review and break down film as well as read defenses quickly. His arm angle is somewhere between 3/4 and over the top. It's not perfect, but then there are few that are. To say it's terrible says that you have some measure of having graded them personally previously. If so, ok.

The Pats took another pass rusher in Easley. The Patriots have Dobson and Thompkins for outside receivers. They also have Lafell who can play inside and outside, as can Edelman. Lafell is unlikely to get cut because of the cap hit.

The Patriots have several people who can play safety. McCourty. Harmon. Ryan. Browner.

You can claim it was a terrible pick all you want. Facts just don't support that idea when you look at how Belichick has run this team.

PATSYLICIOUS said:

The ACL isn't the issue for me as much as the fact that he's had 2 major injuries within a few years. Guys who have trouble staying on the field in any form are always a risk.

Click to expand...

But ACLs are different than other injuries. I don't know about the first ACL tear, but the first one was a non-contact injury. It doesn't mean that he plays recklessly or constantly gets banged up. It could be like Frank Gore where he never has another significant injury in his career.

Dragda said:

I saw Gallon play in college and thought he would be perfect for our system. Good hands, excellent at getting open. If he can play on one or more ST units, he's a lock.

I don't know anything about Thomas.

Click to expand...

I Love the Gallon pick!

KontradictioN said:

Most of Garoppolo's work came against shoft shells and not the kind of coverages that he's going to see as a pro. Doesn't mean he can't or won't make it, but quality of opponent has to be taken into account at least somewhat. He's years away right now and looks to be a better fit for the WCO than the Ehrhardt-Perkins. I would have preferred that the team go with a guy there that could have contributed immediately. Oh well.

Click to expand...

You're right that the competition is weaker. No argument there, but it's better football than most think.

His reads will be much tougher, but E-P isn't that hard a system to master, though from what I understand BB/JM's version is a lot of work. It's simplicity and flexibility is why it exists. JG played at an uptempo offense at EI (think Baylor), using short audibles like E-P does and focusing on what the defense would give you on any play. Frankly, I think that's one reason why the guy was drafted by NEP.

It's great to be a BB homer.

Would I have expected Garoppolo? No, absolutely not. There was some discussion about whether the Pats would go all-in for a quarterback this year. No, people said, it would be next year at the soonest. This year would be about getting a decent backup for when Mallet moves on. And here we are. The Pats don't go all-in -- they go half in with a pretty high pick on a player from a small school.

It could be a waste of a pick, or it could be that BB knows more than I do. I take the latter view. And schoolboy sarcasm about BB is water off a duck's back to me.

DaBruinz said:

The Patriots have several people who can play safety. McCourty. Harmon. Ryan. Browner.

You can claim it was a terrible pick all you want. Facts just don't support that idea when you look at how Belichick has run this team.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but that entire group SUCKS! McCourty is overated, and never makes any plays, Browner (hopefully) will be playing opposite of Revis (after 4 games). The Pats haven't had anyone at safety since Rodney. Oh, you forgot the second coming of Patrick (bust at #34 overall) Chung!

IcyPatriot said:

Let's see ... Belichick - Caserio - Lombardi - Adams .. et al

vs

PatsFans.com brain trust that hates the Garoppolo pick.

going to be a fun summer ...

Click to expand...

I'm going with the PatsFans.com Brain Trust! So far, they've never made a mistake in the draft.

Garoppolo is a stud in the frozen tundra of Eastern Illinois -

I really, really, really hope this guy Garoppolo turns out to be a pro-bowl caliber quarterback. It's fun watching him throw the ball. Tuck Rule at 4:16 of this video in the snow:

AzorianPats said:

B6 look back at some of the posts. Some don't like the player.

Click to expand...

Garopollo is a small school QB so he was not on a lot of people’s radars that said he was rated as the #1 sleeper on many sleeper boards, so he definitely has potential. That said he is tasked with replacing the GOAT in many people’s minds, and short of an Andrew Luck type prospect I think that is a lot to ask of any player especially a late second round pick. I am not sure what his future is but he is not a bad prospect, I just do not think he was a good pick for us this draft.

DaBruinz said:

Brady is only signed through the 2017 off-season. Garoppolo, on a 4 year deal, will be signed through the 2018 season (2014/2015, 2015/2016,2016/2017, 2017/2018). That Nullifies your arguments about possibly having to franchise Garoppolo. Also, if Garoppolo becomes the starter in 2017/2018, the Pats will have plenty of game film on him to offer him a contract fitting of his abilities (whatever they may be).

Click to expand...

Brady is signed for the 2014-15 season, 2015-16 season, 2016-17 season, and the 2017-18 season. Garopollo will sign a 4-year rookie deal that will be for the 2014-15 season, 2015-16 season, 2016-17 season, and 2017-18 season, he will enter free agency the same off season Brady’s contract ends and he is expected to retire.

Garoppolo is undersized? At 6'2 and 2/8" tall? That makes him taller than Russell Wilson, Case Keenum, Drew Brees, and Doug Flutie. Slightly taller than Andy Dalton (6'2) , Brian Hoyer (6'2), Christian Ponder (6'2), and Aaron Rodgers (6'2) . Slightly shorter than RG III (6'2-3/8), Andy Dalton (6'2-5/8), Matt Barkley (6'2-4/8), and Ryan Fitzpatrick (6'2-3/8). My point is that size doesn't determine QB success in and of itself.

Click to expand...

Yes he is undersized, he is 6’2” 226lbs, and he has very short arms and small hands. Did you look at the list of players you made (outside of Brees, Wilson and Rodgers) before you posted it?

Brady was said to have "average at best" arm strength when he came out of college. In fact, it was one of the biggest knocks on him. And Brady sure didn't have much muscle tone in his abs, as shown by the Combine Photo of him that is less than complimentary..

Click to expand...

So because Brady was able to improve his body you naturally assume Garopollo will be able to do the same?

No one is predicting that Garoppolo will be as good as Brady. No one. What people are saying is that the Pats are clearly looking to develop Garoppolo into Brady's heir. A player who can step in and win them games at the QB position. I have not seen one person even come close to making the claim that Garoppolo will even be in Canton. I only hope that he can step in and be an adequate replacement to keep the team from being as bad as they were in the early 90s before Kraft and Bledsoe.

Click to expand...

As I have said I do not dislike the player, I dislike the pick, he is not even under contract for the season when Brady is likely to no longer be on the team, all this is another Ryan Mallett situation and if you cannot see that I do not know what to tell you.

goheels22002 said:

I'm going with the PatsFans.com Brain Trust! So far, they've never made a mistake in the draft.

Garoppolo is a stud in the frozen tundra of Eastern Illinois -

I really, really, really hope this guy Garoppolo turns out to be a pro-bowl caliber quarterback. It's fun watching him throw the ball. Tuck Rule at 4:16 of this video in the snow:

Click to expand...

He is an entertaining player, and a promising prospect, but he was not a good fit for this team unless you are expecting Brady to retire prior to the end of this contract, which I do not. Ryan Mallett has thrown 3 passes in the last 3 years, Hoyer threw 43 passes in his three seasons as Brady’s backup so in the past 5 years the backup QB has thrown 46 passes. If the next four years look anything, like that we will have to either extend or franchise tag a QB with less than 50 regular season passes.

AzorianPats said:

I Love the Gallon pick!

Click to expand...

What is his story? I know very little about him.