Pats backroom let down Brady AGAIN

AndyJohnson said:

This is just so totally wrong. The Patriot offense has been the best in the NFL for 'several years'.
The playoff losses are only 'the same' if you are ignorant.


Not quite what I said. I said I saw a report that he has incredibly small hands and fumbles a lot.
So I don't like the pick, but I have less than 1% of the information about the guy that BB has, so I am smart enough to know that if I am right its more luck than insight, as opposed to other who think they could read the internet and do a better job of drafting.

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For context, tony romo fumbles the ball a lot but his hands are 8.5". Garrapolo's are 9.5" or so. Aaron rodgers had 9.5" inch hands as well.

MassPats38 said:

The Giants got pressure. Maroney had talent but was not a gamer. Eli was sacked 3 times, Brady was sacked 5 (and hit a lot).

Despite all of that, the Pats had more first downs, about the same time of possession, 60 fewer yards, and were a Warren sack (on the helmet catch), a Samuel pick off his fingers, or a drop by Tyree in his career play away from putting the game away. The game was about as equal as they come. The Pats led through 3 quarters, lost, regained, then finally lost the lead in the 4th. That isn't the highlights. That is the reality/grit of that game. That last touchdown by the Giants, the only one that really mattered, was luck. Grit had little to do with it.

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Hmmm, so if we got to Manning more, and if they got to Brady less, would that have made a difference?

The Giants dared us to run but because Maroney could not break arm tackles the running game was weak and the Giants didn't bother to defend it, if they did the D-line would have been in far less of a position to tee off on Brady.

Would the game have been less equal?

Snake Eyes said:

That's true but aren't all teams dealing with injuries?

A better built team can manage them better and keep the train moving. Seattle's defense was still nasty even when the starters weren't in, they built the team in a manner that the players were like interchangeable parts so that things didn't completely fall apart when one of them wasn't in. We don't have anything close to that on either side of the ball.

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You say that like you can just wave a wand and have a 'better built team'. Better than the one that has been built on a model that made it the most successful in the NFL since the current regime took charge.

JMC00 said:

So you don't think they fit. Belichick thinks they do.

Hmmm not sure who i'm going to side with on this one.

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Ok, so you're not going to bother to do any original thinking but just defer to an authority figure, very impressive.

TommyBrady12 said:

For context, tony romo fumbles the ball a lot but his hands are 8.5". Garrapolo's are 9.5" or so. Aaron rodgers had 9.5" inch hands as well.

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I hope you are right. As I have said the report I saw indicated Garappolos hands were exceedingly small compared to all other NFL QBs. I hope I am wrong.

Brady6 said:

Here are some players who would have been day one picks in any other draft.

Louis Nix

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that is seriously debatable. Considering he was a mid 3rd this year, its hard to argue that the draft was so deep that there would over 60 1st rounders in the 2014 draft.

Snake Eyes said:

Ok, so you're not going to bother to do any original thinking but just defer to an authority figure, very impressive.

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Honest question for you.
If BB,with the information he has, drafts a player, and feels he is a good fit for the system, and you think the pick sucks and doesn't fit the system, with the information you have.
What percentage would you put on the chance that your opinion is better than his?

Brady6 said:

I love the people who troll around here clicking "dislike" and "disagree" but don't even have the fortitude to write post.

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i disagree

AndyJohnson said:

This is just so totally wrong. The Patriot offense has been the best in the NFL for 'several years'.
The playoff losses are only 'the same' if you are ignorant.

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Deus spelled it out before, the same basic formula has been used successfully, it's the details that are different.

AndyJohnson said:

Not quite what I said. I said I saw a report that he has incredibly small hands and fumbles a lot.

So I don't like the pick, but I have less than 1% of the information about the guy that BB has, so I am smart enough to know that if I am right its more luck than insight, as opposed to other who think they could read the internet and do a better job of drafting.

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Oh yeah, this is exactly what you said:

"Garapolo cant play in the NFL. His hands are too small, he is a fumble waiting to happen".

So, the Pats spent a 2nd round pick on a guy who you deemed "can't play in the NFL" and now you're backtracking because BB thinks otherwise. I really do enjoy your slavish worship of BB and other NFL GMs.

AndyJohnson said:

I hope you are right. As I have said the report I saw indicated Garappolos hands were exceedingly small compared to all other NFL QBs. I hope I am wrong.

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I think that was a false rumor out there that was spread about him - that he had small hands. Most of the QBs in he draft has hands between 9-10 inches. Charles Davis says his hands are fine.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...-continues-to-build-around-qb-jimmy-garoppolo

Brady6 said:

Martin was on the board at #62. That is the player we should have drafted, not JG.

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I would rather have had Martin than JG there too, honestly, so I'm not arguing with you on that point. But he's not a 1st-rounder - that was my point of contention, as you called him a 1st rounder.

The other thing is: he'll be coming OFF his rookie contract at an age where he should just be hitting his stride. He should have stayed in college one more year - THEN he might have been a 1st-rounder. He'll be 21 at the end of November, well into the first year of his rookie deal.

There are several played in Round 3 and 4 I wanted over a QB (any QB), and I remain surprised that the Pats pulled the trigger on one in the second. I know they needed to replace Mallett (and still might get something for him before all is said and done) and would rather do it with a rookie than an expensive (3-4 million) back-up, but yeah, that pick kind of shocked me.

AndyJohnson said:

Honest question for you.
If BB,with the information he has, drafts a player, and feels he is a good fit for the system, and you think the pick sucks and doesn't fit the system, with the information you have.
What percentage would you put on the chance that your opinion is better than his?

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This is a fair point in real discourse but deferring to authority effectively makes internet message boarding dull. And since posting on this message board has about as much actual effect on the Patriots as going outside right now and pissing in the wind would, I do think for entertainment purposes everyone should have their rants.

Deus Irae said:

People abuse it and it can cause problems on boards. That's why a lot of boards won't do negative rep.

We're already seeing examples of it here, with people disliking or disagreeing with simple facts. It'll get worse if people don't figure out how to use it.

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Agree but it can be useful for flagging trolls or contrarian posters IMO to an extent . Wish the ESPN board (where I came from) had something like it... Can be deceiving though - with my rating I got smacked hard by the board for posting a tipped draft tweet but that doesn't make me a troll....

Snake Eyes said:

Deus spelled it out before, the same basic formula has been used successfully, it's the details that are different.

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And it is wrong. Please don't cite the guy who twists facts to fit his previous arguments after they have been proven wrong as a source of fact.

Oh yeah, this is exactly what you said:

"Garapolo cant play in the NFL. His hands are too small, he is a fumble waiting to happen".

So, the Pats spent a 2nd round pick on a guy who you deemed "can't play in the NFL" and now you're backtracking because BB thinks otherwise. I really do enjoy your slavish worship of BB and other NFL GMs.

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What is not clear to you? I clearly stated I based that opinion on a report I saw. I clearly understand that I am relying on a report and BB is making the pick based on an EXHAUSTIVE analysis.
I am 100% sure that BB's opinion of whether Garappolo will have a fumbling issue is better than mine.
If he believes what I believe and he makes the pick, I am against that decision.
If he assessed Garappolo and does not see a fumbling issue, then my uneducated opinion is probably wrong.
Its not that hard to understand.

primetime said:

This is a fair point in real discourse but deferring to authority effectively makes internet message boarding dull. And since posting on this message board has about as much actual effect on the Patriots as going outside right now and pissing in the wind would, I do think for entertainment purposes everyone should have their rants.

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Its not a matter of deferring to authority, its a matter of recognizing that the authority has both more data and more ability to judge it than you do.
Saying I don't like the pick, and saying BB is a moron to make that pick are 2 very different things.

Snake Eyes said:

Teams that can consistently impose their will can still be effective against better opponents, the Pats running game was not even slightly effective, they vanished.

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That just isnt true

sb1 said:

Agree but it can be useful for flagging trolls or contrarian posters IMO to an extent . Wish the ESPN board (where I came from) had something like it... With my rating I got smacked hard by the board for posting a tipped draft tweet but that doesn't make me a troll....

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I'll probably lead the board in negative responses (disagree/dislike), and I don't care. I post on another board that uses negative rep, so it's going to be water off a duck's back, as far as I'm concerened. Others will care though, and it can get frustrating to see a negative on things that obviously don't call for it, even if you don't generally give a damn. Just to use an extreme example, posting "The Patriots won the game" after a win, and getting a bunch of disagrees, is not conducive to a good board. That's why I brought this up in an earlier thread.

Also, every post that disagrees with another is contrarian. That's a meaningless term. On this board, which is very homer-centric, any disagreement with team moves is often attacked as contrarian.

Deus Irae said:

They don't fit. That's obvious. The team is obviously, for this draft anyway, going to transition away from small, nimble technicians towards larger power players on the inside.

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Two things have bothered me with the Pats over the last few years: lack of aggression on Defense, and an inability to pound straight ahead on 3rd and 2.

They started to address the first in recent years, particularly when Talib was able to take out the other team's #1 WR. The second has always been limited by the fact that the interior of the line gets NO PUSH, other than Mankins.

So...last year they add Tommy Kelly for interior pressure, and draft Jamie Collins, who gives them flexibility at LB. This year, they get Revis and Browner, add Will Smith and possibly the most disruptive interior DT pass rusher in the draft (apologies to Aaron Donald). They also bring back Chung, who is a very good blitzer.

With the second, they just got a lot bigger on their OL. While I agree with Brady6 that maybe they could have grabbed a blue'er chipper at 62 for the OL, it seems to me that BB thought there wasn't enough difference between Martin and Stork to do that. My favorite OL has been SFs for years - they're huge and bulldoze.

It wasn't an exciting draft at all for me, other than Easley. But flash doesn't win. So we'll see.

Deus Irae said:

The team is obviously, for this draft anyway, going to transition away from small, nimble technicians towards larger power players on the inside.

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Which is kind of my point. Belichick went with these guys because they fit the scheme he is hoping to successfully implement.

Brady6 just hates the picks because the guys weren't on his binkie big board.

JMC00 said:

Brady6 just hates the picks because brady6 needed something to hate today

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ftfy