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I don't disagree that the line could be improved, but the protection problems last year were just as much about Brady and the receivers then the offensive line play
 
I'm right there with you. Guarantee me a Super Bowl this season, and I'm willing to suck for the next 5 years.

Unfortunately, going all-in guarantees you nothing except a disappearing of future assets.

Totally agree. It's a sport where the entire roster is needed to win a championship. Just look at this years Super Bowl MVP. It's the ultimate team sport and there is not a bigger fallacy out there than the "one player away" routine.
 
I don't disagree that the line could be improved, but the protection problems last year were just as much about Brady and the receivers then the offensive line play

No they were not. The Giants beat them in two SBs because of internal Offensive line pressure the interior talentless line couldn't handle. The Broncs beat then in the AFCCG for the same reason.

Fix it when the players to do so are there.
 
If you want to win you had best plug the holes in the interior Offensive line. You can't win with Brady on IR.

The Pats got to two AFCCGs and a Super Bowl with much worse Defenses than they now possess, without any additions in 2011 and 2012. But the interior OL is Old, 32->33, 31->32 and 29. with only Mankins with any great ability, backed up by nothing but scrubs. Ominously, Brady was sacked 40 times this past season, a number that would be three years worth at other times.

FIX the damn line!

Stop wishing for a Gronk or Chandler Jones. The draft is barren of them, but has plenty of very talented interior Offensive linemen. Pick up a couple; and convert one to C and the other to RG.
I know its easy to complain about any shortcomings that might seem obvious to you, AZ, but reality is often much more complicated.

1. Its easy to think that "all" you have to do is pick a guy in the draft and you problems are solved. It just doesn't work that way. Even if we do pick interior OLmen that early there is no guarantee that they will be any better than what we have THIS year. David DeCastro was as sure a bet for an interior OLman as you could get in 2012, and going into his 3rd season he might even be as good as everyone hoped. But the fact remains its taken him time to get from here to there.

If you are drafting for the future, by all means use top picks to get players who will upgrade the OL in 2015. But if you are looking to improve the the team for THIS year, there are other places that could use the depth and talent that picks in the first 2 rounds generally get you.

2. You make it seem that all 40 of those sacks were the responsibility of the interior OL. Don't you think a health DA, and a more experienced and healthy trio of rookie WR's won't make a big difference in Brady's sack total. Not to mention a healthy and improved TE group, which includes the single most impactful non-QB player in the league.

AZ, by the end of last year our receiver corps was an epic mess. Boyce was on IR. Thompkins was trying to playing on a bad hip. Dobson was playing on a bad foot. DA had his Groin, Gronk was on IR, Vareen was trying to catch with a bad hand, and Hernandez in jail. So essentially all Brady was left to throw to was Hooman, Edelman, and no man.

It is going to be a LOT harder for defenses to attack Brady when he has a deeper, healthier, skillful and more experienced receiver corps. If you think about it. How many games did Brady even have this season where he threw to a healthy group of receivers. But even though I think we will be fine at WR, this team would benefit greatly if we used the first or 2nd pick on a top 4 TE.

3. Is there anyone the Pats could get at 29 or 62 who is going to be better than Marcus Cannon at RG. Don't you think that it would be a waste to draft a player that high when you already have an upgrade on the roster?

4. After the 2nd round, feel free to draft who you want. I'd welcome an offensive lineman in the 3rd or below. But what this team needs are high end additions to the DL and TE, and those players are more likely to be had in the first 2 rounds
 
No they were not. The Giants beat them in two SBs because of internal Offensive line pressure the interior talentless line couldn't handle. The Broncs beat then in the AFCCG for the same reason.

Fix it when the players to do so are there.
Yes the Giants got great pressure on Brady. But they won those games because of a series of immaculate receptions and the general good luck that marked most of the most recent superbowl winners. Do we even have this conversation if Welker catches the ball or David Tyree doesn't have the helmet catch.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for upgrading the interior OL just like everyone else. But I don't see it happening through the draft unless you are willing to wait until next year before the player you pick this year make an impact. Any impact players you take in this year's draft, means taking away from areas which need that impact more, like the DL and TE
 
You said it, nothing is guaranteed. Might as take our chances with one of the deepest teams in the league with a alltime great at QB and a HOF coach.

I'm right there with you. Guarantee me a Super Bowl this season, and I'm willing to suck for the next 5 years.

Unfortunately, going all-in guarantees you nothing except a disappearing of future assets.
 
Yes the Giants got great pressure on Brady. But they won those games because of a series of immaculate receptions and the general good luck that marked most of the most recent superbowl winners. Do we even have this conversation if Welker catches the ball or David Tyree doesn't have the helmet catch.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for upgrading the interior OL just like everyone else. But I don't see it happening through the draft unless you are willing to wait until next year before the player you pick this year make an impact. Any impact players you take in this year's draft, means taking away from areas which need that impact more, like the DL and TE

Solder was a starter Day 1; Mankins was a starter Day 1; Volmer was a starter day 1. Draft talent and you don't have to wait, groom, hope and pray. The Offense died in the Playoffs. Attribute that to the inferior interior OL.

There are more DLs than there are room for, and they produced 40 sacks/season. Can you live without a backup TE better than Hoomanawanui? The Pats do have Gronk, the best TE in the League. We went 12-4 without one.
 
I know its easy to complain about any shortcomings that might seem obvious to you, AZ, but reality is often much more complicated.

1. Its easy to think that "all" you have to do is pick a guy in the draft and you problems are solved. It just doesn't work that way. Even if we do pick interior OLmen that early there is no guarantee that they will be any better than what we have THIS year. David DeCastro was as sure a bet for an interior OLman as you could get in 2012, and going into his 3rd season he might even be as good as everyone hoped. But the fact remains its taken him time to get from here to there.

If you are drafting for the future, by all means use top picks to get players who will upgrade the OL in 2015. But if you are looking to improve the the team for THIS year, there are other places that could use the depth and talent that picks in the first 2 rounds generally get you.

2. You make it seem that all 40 of those sacks were the responsibility of the interior OL. Don't you think a health DA, and a more experienced and healthy trio of rookie WR's won't make a big difference in Brady's sack total. Not to mention a healthy and improved TE group, which includes the single most impactful non-QB player in the league.

AZ, by the end of last year our receiver corps was an epic mess. Boyce was on IR. Thompkins was trying to playing on a bad hip. Dobson was playing on a bad foot. DA had his Groin, Gronk was on IR, Vareen was trying to catch with a bad hand, and Hernandez in jail. So essentially all Brady was left to throw to was Hooman, Edelman, and no man.

It is going to be a LOT harder for defenses to attack Brady when he has a deeper, healthier, skillful and more experienced receiver corps. If you think about it. How many games did Brady even have this season where he threw to a healthy group of receivers. But even though I think we will be fine at WR, this team would benefit greatly if we used the first or 2nd pick on a top 4 TE.

3. Is there anyone the Pats could get at 29 or 62 who is going to be better than Marcus Cannon at RG. Don't you think that it would be a waste to draft a player that high when you already have an upgrade on the roster?

4. After the 2nd round, feel free to draft who you want. I'd welcome an offensive lineman in the 3rd or below. But what this team needs are high end additions to the DL and TE, and those players are more likely to be had in the first 2 rounds

I don't accept your wait till 2015. BB says there are no rookies by Game 16. Solder, Volmer and Mankins were all starters Day 1.

Are you serious, that we can't win without a Backup TE or a Backup DE? Pardon me but I thought we ALREADY had All World Gronk at TE; and two pretty good starters in Chandler and Nink.

Listen to yourself. You don't draft reserves in the First. You draft starters and hopefully future stars. Martin, Bitonio and X Sua Filo (sp?) are Day 1 starters. We would have to wait for Brandon Taylor as a injury redshirt though.
 
Agreed, I think this is the perfect draft to trade down with all the depth. We could get an extra pick or two and use them on the: d-line, o-line, tight end or safety position. Just hoping there are no reaches this year!!!
Aww c'mon Ashley, this is Belichick, there are always reaches, at least one per draft.
 
No they were not. The Giants beat them in two SBs because of internal Offensive line pressure the interior talentless line couldn't handle. The Broncs beat then in the AFCCG for the same reason.

Fix it when the players to do so are there.

I'm not sure how referencing two games that took place roughly 7 and 3 years ago has any bearing on the state of the line last season. The Broncos beat us for two reasons: they marched up and down the field on us all day, and Brady consistently couldn't find an open receiver, and when he did he overthrew him. When Brady has to hold onto the ball all day and isn't confident to throw to a particular spot on the field, it's going to lead to more line breakdowns.

I said the line could do with improving, and Wendell/Connolly is an obvious area to start, but I also think improvement will come from Brady being on the same page as his receivers.
 
I said the line could do with improving, and Wendell/Connolly is an obvious area to start, but I also think improvement will come from Brady being on the same page as his receivers.

I would find this to be a very reasonable thought, and have often wondered how much the lack of receiving cohesion may have contributed to the OL problems. As you said, the weakness is obviously there with Wendell/Connelly, so hopefully that is addressed; but I also think that the receiving problems contributed on at least some level just as well. How much is anyone's guess, of course.
 
As much as we are all drooling for Revis and Browner because of how much they will help the pass rush, the shoe was on the other foot last year. If you have nobody who can get open (except Edelman) then the other team doesn't need a great pass rush to get to you.

I think Wendell kind of sucks but the terrible offense had much more to do with weapons than linemen.
 
. Can you live without a backup TE better than Hoomanawanui? The Pats do have Gronk, the best TE in the League. We went 12-4 without one.

I find this line of reasoning curious. I mean, we also went 12-4 with Wendell and Connolly starting.
 
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[QUOTE="AzPatsFan, post: 3815200, member: 2168". Can you live without a backup TE better than Hoomanawanui? The Pats do have Gronk, the best TE in the League. We went 12-4 without one.

I find this line of reasoning curious. I mean, we also went 12-4 with Wendell and Connolly starting.[/QUOTE]

As much as I respect AZ, I find that line of reasoning curious as well. As a matter of fact, Deus Irae posted a nice breakdown of all of our positions and the fact that there is an excellent chance of drafting someone who is going to play a rotational or future role with the team. Of course, there are certain positions that would warrant a starting role just the same such as IOL/SS/and possibly DL--but who knows how it will play out?

Honestly, I believe that the lack of any kind of viable TE receiving option hurt us tremendously in the postseason, so yes--Michael Hoomanawanui certainly needs immediate upgrading in my opinion. To me, he's a TE3/blocking TE at best, and offers absolutely nothing whatsoever as a receiving option. The fact that we've lacked a true TE1 in the past three biggest postseason games certainly had a lot to do with our offensive struggles.

If we don't come away with a reasonable TE option in the first 2-3 rounds, I will be pissed as a fan. Then again, that's nothing new when it comes to the draft ;)
 
I think it will go like this... we either trade up for Donald (doubtful) stay put and get shazier or a de/olb or trade back and prolly take a olb/de or rb like Sankey, Hyde, Mason, or Trent Murphy, Van Noy, Marcus Smith or DT D Easley
 
@supafly

Most telling stat of the year: Despite having the Hooman started 10 games and playing nearly 60% of the total offensive snaps in the entire season, he finished the year with 12 catches! 10 games started and 12 catches!


Tight end needs to be upgraded ASAP. Probably the biggest need on the roster. I think Gronk will start the season being eased back in slowly; similar to last year. And I don't have a problem with that at all the worst thing we can do is rush him back week 1 and have him not confident in his knee or ability to take a hit. Should grab ASJ, Niklas or CJF to pair with Gronk and start while he takes his time getting back.

We have 10 receivers on the roster and I think LaFell could be a solid presence on the outside and we have a lot more time for Brady to get on the same same page with his receivers.

Interior OL is definitely a top need as well, more so than DT or DE in my mind. Probably double dipping unless they think Kline could start and make Connolly expendable.
 
I think we take De/olb, lb, or poss A Donald, Rb, or Verrett with first pick but most likely one of these guys..Shazier, Van Noy, Trent Murphy, Marcus Smith, Dee Ford. No way its Wr, Te, QB, OL, FS imo after thinking and thinking and studying the depth chart and team. just my opinion though
 
If we don't come away with a reasonable TE option in the first 2-3 rounds, I will be pissed as a fan. Then again, that's nothing new when it comes to the draft ;)

Unfortunately, I don't see a TE option in the draft I'd bank on as a starter.

The best options might be a vet FA or converting a Harrison or Benjamin-type WR
 
We simply have no TE's , people still believe that Gronk will play 10+ games and post season, I would like to be that optimistic, the reality is that we need to start to look at the position as a huge hole without players to fill, in theory we have Gronk and Hooman. Gronk is a big question mark, anything he produces from now on is profit in my opinion, and Hooman has no business playing an important hole like TE in a team that has excelled at this position recently.

We need 2 new TE's, one to pair with Gronk and a reliable backup when Gronk (or the other TE) gets hurt. We didn't sign anyone on FA, so there's the draft remaining. Don't come with UDFA or harrison projects to me, we need at least one blue chip, there's a reason players are selected and others don't.

I would love BB to draft 2 TE's but I can understand drafting only one, after all, you don't pay Gronk that money for him to give you something you consider "extra". You expect big production from him and this upcoming season will tell a lot about his future, in case things go negative again, I can see BB rethinking all his strategy.

O-Line - Huge need, period.

Talking about defense, we improved a lot, of course we can get better, there's always possibility for that, we need another DE but the class is not good, the market was high for FA. DT is weird, we have a lot of players there, some old, some UDFA that most fans have no confidence will repeat the good performance from last year. But we have players there. The secondary is better than ever. We can go to the season with this current roster.

One thing is for sure, you can field the best defense ever, if you offense do not give them a break, things will fall down. Last year our D# played too much, that gives you injuries, players wasted at the end of the season like our DE's. I keep my opinion that the best help you can give to this defense is an offense that can stay on the field, chewing up the clock, steamrolling the other defense, torturing them with small doses of cruelty, getting them breathing heavily. I'm not against a few additions on defense of course not, but I think people are too much Seattle after that massacre on the SB, but we won't get there this season, we improved a lot, but we are no there yet, the best option to give us the best shot this next season is a balanced team. Give Brady more protection and another TE or two and I'm happy.
 


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