More Mallett Chit Chat

ctpatsfan77 said:

Most fumbles, but not even all of those are the QB's fault.

And I agree 100% that INTs aren't always on the QB: there's a reason the Pats released Visanthe Shiancoe and not Mallett after Mallett's INT against the Texans.

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I'm inclined to agree with you @ctpatsfan77 about fumbles and the exchange from CE to QB. I guess it comes down to having watched Cassel and recognising that the ledger went both ways. He was responsible for some poor play but his teammates were also responsible for some poor play.

By the end of the 2008 season, Cassel came on in leaps and bounds with the Patriots. What it confirmed to me is Bill Belichick's brilliance. Put simply, he is that good at teaching/coaching and maximising the ability of players thrust into the role of starter. It comes to me as no surprise that ex-Patriots don't come close to their production here once BB decides to move them on.

102 Pat said:

If Mallett gets traded, what will most of the board talk about?

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How many games it will take for Armond Armstead to set a new NFL sack record in 2014?

fnordcircle said:

The Patriots didn't get a 2nd rounder for Cassel they got a 2nd rounder for Cassel and Vrabel. Cassel's post NE career has overall been a disappointment which is why a guy who lead our team to 11-5 was brought in as a backup after failing in KC.

This isn't me telling you how I want the world to be, it's how I see it. I liked Cassel but if it still takes Cassel + Vrabel after Cassel went 11-5 I just don't see how Mallett is going to magically be viewed as having value having done jack **** other than backup our QB and throw an INT that wasn't his fault.

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You do remember the Pats had to franchise Cassel so he was being paid $12 million for one year. Do you think, perhaps, a QB signed for a one year $12 million dollar one year contract might not be as valuable as say one signed for his rookie contract? Vrabel was worthless at this point in his career and was going to be cut by the Pats.

No one has any clue what the Pats will get for Mallett, but I would be surprised if he gets traded for anything less than a third rounder.

Triumph said:

The Pats should laugh all the way home from the draft if they do.

Im all for trading him now and placing the best team possible on the field today.

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Look, I have no idea whether Mallett is a good prospect for an NFL team at QB or not, but i do know that Belichick trusted him enough to make him Brady's only back-up the last couple of years, and I have never heard anything but praise from his coach and coordinators since he has been here. He doesn't see the field because he plays behind the GOAT so there has never been any way as fans to judge him. And while i can understand the skepticism about getting a good pick for him because as patriot fans it has always been commonplace for us to overvalue our players and the deals don't usually materialize, however in this instance there is one compelling reason to believe Mallett "MAY" have some real worth, and that's because his former OC is now the head coach of a team running the same offensive system, and they really need young QB's. It may well be that all of you are right and O'Brien thinks he sucks and won't offer anything for him, but it also may be that he loved coaching him and thinks he has more ability to produce for him than the draftees, in which case he may be willing to use his first overall on another position and use #33 or #65 for Mallett. We'll find out on draft day?

102 Pat said:

If Mallett gets traded, what will most of the board talk about?

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Amendola

AzPatsFan said:

Get used to the current going price for a backup QB. That is why Mallett will not be moved this year. Why would BB use up $ 5 million or so and essentially every spare CAP dollar he has and have to dump some other players to afford a Mallett change?

Answer he doesn't, despite what the Draftnik non gurus want, while never thinking things through.

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????????? Who exactly would the Patriots spend $5 million on? Kolb? Grossman?Garrard?
McCown, Vick, Cassel, Fitzpatrick and Henne are all competing for starting gigs or are the current starter.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/45947/309/free-agency-update
Quarterbacks

1. Michael Vick (Signed one-year, $5M deal with NYJ)
2. Mark Sanchez (Signed one-year, $2.25M deal with PHI)
3. Josh McCown (Signed two-year, $10M deal with TB)

4. Matt Cassel (Re-signed two-year, $10M deal with MIN)
5. Josh Freeman (Signed one-year deal with NYG)
6. Shaun Hill (Signed one-year, $1.75M deal with STL)

7. Ryan Fitzpatrick (Signed two-year, $7.5M deal with HOU)
8. Jason Campbell (Signed one-year, $1.5M deal with CIN)
9. Chad Henne (Re-signed two-year, $8M deal with JAX)
10. Tarvaris Jackson (Re-signed one-year, $1.25M deal with SEA)
11. Kevin Kolb
12. Brandon Weeden (Signed two-year, $1.53M deal with DAL)
13. Colt McCoy (Signed one-year, $795K deal with WAS)
14. Matt Flynn (Re-signed one-year deal with GB)
15. Kellen Clemens (Signed two-year, $3M deal with SD)
16. Luke McCown (Re-signed one-year, $920K deal with NO)
17. Derek Anderson (Re-signed two-year, $2.564M deal with CAR)
18. David Garrard
19. Dan Orlovsky (Signed one-year, $920K deal with DET)
20. Rex Grossman
21. Curtis Painter (Re-signed one-year, $795K deal with NYG)
22. Charlie Whitehurst (Signed two-year, $4M deal with TEN)

Ivan said:

however in this instance there is one compelling reason to believe Mallett "MAY" have some real worth, and that's because his former OC is now the head coach of a team running the same offensive system

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I think you wrap things up nicely by stating that none of us know, so we'll obviously have to wait and find out, but this whole "former OC now being the HC of the Texans" is waaaaay overstated.

Mallett was drafted and brought in during the lockout year, meaning that he didn't take part in a damn thing until training camp, when the majority of his responsibilities consisted of holding a clipboard and carrying the veteran's shoulder pads. No OTA's, rookie camp, mini's, etc due to the lockout.

Bill O'Brien had already taken the HC job at Penn State at the very beginning of January, which is one of the reasons why we went out and brought in McDaniels for the playoff/SB run as his replacement.

Unless O'Brien really liked what he saw from Mallett in those 4 months when he didn't do a damn thing but try and pick up the playbook as our 3rd string QB behind both Hoyer and Brady, this aspect seems to be overstated in my opinion.

The fact that both O'Brien and our former TE coach have gone to HOU may hold more water, however. Like you said, we'll have to wait and see. It just cracks me up to hear about this awesome connection that Mallett and O'Brien had in that 100 day period, where Mallett was our 3rd string rookie. For all the talk that we hear about this aspect, Bill O'Brien may have left with negative thoughts about a rookie who hardly had any time at all to do much of anything, instead of leaving with the thought that he was somehow salivating at the awesome talent and decision making that Mallett had shown in practice.

As you said, we just don't know.

hwc said:

How many games it will take for Armond Armstead to set a new NFL sack record in 2014?

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Obviously, no more than 1/2 a season. The raw upside of Armstead alone keeps opposing OL coaches up all night.

ausbacker said:

No, interceptions are not always the fault of the Quarterback. Fumbles, well yes, they are. You appear to be conveniently forgetting the tone of the post in your zest to diss Cassel.

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I dont have to diss Cassel. His performance does that for him.

Some of the ducks that Cassel threw up in KC were on him. He is indecisive and lacks arm strength. Cassel needs to be in a run dominant offense to have a prayer out there.

supafly said:

I think you wrap things up nicely by stating that none of us know, so we'll obviously have to wait and find out, but this whole "former OC now being the HC of the Texans" is waaaaay overstated.

Mallett was drafted and brought in during the lockout year, meaning that he didn't take part in a damn thing until training camp, when the majority of his responsibilities consisted of holding a clipboard and carrying the veteran's shoulder pads. No OTA's, rookie camp, mini's, etc due to the lockout.

Bill O'Brien had already taken the HC job at Penn State at the very beginning of January, which is one of the reasons why we went out and brought in McDaniels for the playoff/SB run as his replacement.

Unless O'Brien really liked what he saw from Mallett in those 4 months when he didn't do a damn thing but try and pick up the playbook as our 3rd string QB behind both Hoyer and Brady, this aspect seems to be overstated in my opinion.

The fact that both O'Brien and our former TE coach have gone to HOU may hold more water, however. Like you said, we'll have to wait and see. It just cracks me up to hear about this awesome connection that Mallett and O'Brien had in that 100 day period, where Mallett was our 3rd string rookie. For all the talk that we hear about this aspect, Bill O'Brien may have left with negative thoughts about a rookie who hardly had any time at all to do much of anything, instead of leaving with the thought that he was somehow salivating at the awesome talent and decision making that Mallett had shown in practice.

As you said, we just don't know.

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Sup, that O'Brien was Mallett's OC and is now the head coach of the Texans is in no way "overstated" it is simply a fact, O'Brien was his OC and he is now the Head Coach of the Texans. Whether or not that means he really likes him as a player and wants him is completely up for question and we should find out what value he places on him, if any, during the draft as i think it is fairly obvious that the Patriots would like to make a deal with them for him, however it will be at their price or it won't happen as they aren't taking a late third for him and creating a hole at the position when they have him trained to be Brady's back-up and the value to move him simply would not be there.


And for the record SUP, i have never said that Mallett and O'brien had any "awesome connection," and in fact I have made it clear many times that absolutely no one, including all of those saying the Texans don't want him, has any idea what O'Brien does or does not think of him as a player. The only thing i have said is that Mallett has been taught the system O'Brien wants to run, in part by O'brien himself, and O'brien may have like d what he saw, that's all, and it's hardly some bold pronouncement but more just common sense.

Triumph said:

I dont have to diss Cassel. His performance does that for him.

Some of the ducks that Cassel threw up in KC were on him. He is indecisive and lacks arm strength. Cassel needs to be in a run dominant offense to have a prayer out there.

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Of course he’s made bad throws and dumb decisions, even the best QBs will do that. How many OCs have they had when he was in KC? How many different offensive systems? How well was he protected by his O-line?

If he and the receivers don’t know what they’re doing, happens when you run a new system every year, and what Cassel sees the receiver do something other than what he thinks they’re supposed to, it shouldn’t be a shock that he looks indecisive, he’s probably deciding whether he can compensate and maybe get a completion or move to his next option. Add in the high likelihood that he’s going to be disrupted because of poor O-line play and that situation gets even worse.

If one were to write a textbook plan on how to mess up an offense that’s pretty much what Pioli had going in KC. Build a solid offense around Cassel and he can be a good QB.

BradyFTW! said:

I think Mallett's gone after this season either way, so it all comes down to what draft pick value you'd place on one year of backup QB. I'd be happy if they got a third rounder for him; anything better is gravy.

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well, a one-year backup on a team with only two QBs is a fairly important position. We've been spoiled with Brady's resilience over the years but you never know when a bruised wrist injury or twisted ankle might keep him out a week or two during the season.

dex13 said:

well, a one-year backup on a team with only two QBs is a fairly important position. We've been spoiled with Brady's resilience over the years but you never know when a bruised wrist injury or twisted ankle might keep him out a week or two during the season.

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That's the nightmare scenario with an inadequate backup. Hate to lose a game that woulda been winnable with a game manager level QB performance. All the difference between a Bye or 4 Games to Glory.

102 Pat said:

If Mallett gets traded, what will most of the board talk about?

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how we can get 3 first round picks for the rookie qb we end up drafting in the 6th round.

goheels22002 said:

Mallett can't command better than that with no live action experience.

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Pryor was to be cut if the Raiders could not find a trade partner. His situation isn't comparable to Mallett at all.

Ivan said:

Sup, that O'Brien was Mallett's OC and is now the head coach of the Texans is in no way "overstated" it is simply a fact, O'Brien was his OC and he is now the Head Coach of the Texans. Whether or not that means he really likes him as a player and wants him is completely up for question and we should find out what value he places on him, if any, during the draft as i think it is fairly obvious that the Patriots would like to make a deal with them for him, however it will be at their price or it won't happen as they aren't taking a late third for him and creating a hole at the position when they have him trained to be Brady's back-up and the value to move him simply would not be there.


And for the record SUP, i have never said that Mallett and O'brien had any "awesome connection," and in fact I have made it clear many times that absolutely no one, including all of those saying the Texans don't want him, has any idea what O'Brien does or does not think of him as a player. The only thing i have said is that Mallett has been taught the system O'Brien wants to run, in part by O'brien himself, and O'brien may have like d what he saw, that's all, and it's hardly some bold pronouncement but more just common sense.

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Well, I certainly didn't mean to put words in your mouth about the awesome connection between Mallett/O'Brien, but I have heard similar statements made by others.

The fact is that we just don't know, but Bill O'Brien would have had to see an awful lot in my opinion during that 4 month period when the 2 of them were here together. The fact that Brady was 1st string and Hoyer 2nd string (and Mallett a raw rookie seeing the field for the first time in August) leads me to believe that this "connection" is somewhat overstated--yes. In all honesty, how much could Mallett really have shown Bill O'Brien taking 3rd string reps while he was trying to learn the offense from scratch in such a short amount of time? The fact that they were 1 month away from the start of the season when Mallett first saw the field only adds to that thought.

I'm not meaning to downplay your opinion. I'm simply giving mine, that's all. Unless Ryan Mallett instantly picked up our offense from day one, saw much more reps than anyone would believe, and totally blew everyone out of the water as a 3rd stringer from the months of Aug--Dec, I just don't buy it as much as some others, that's all. If that were the case, Mallett's stock would be much higher than it is in my opinion.

As you've said--we'll have to wait and see. The possibility exists that O'Brien could decide to trade a mid round pick and take a chance on him, so you're definitely right about that, and could be right about all of it in the end.

borg said:

Fire BB then for spending a #3 on a back up QB...Mallett

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Definitely! Can da bum!
Seriously though, I guess I should have qualified my statement a bit.
Let me try again.
Any GM that does not have the notoriety of a Bill Belichick, gives up a 3rd for a back up QB just doesn't like his job anymore.
Is that better?

363839 said:

Definitely! Can da bum!
Seriously though, I guess I should have qualified my statement a bit.
Let me try again.
Any GM that does not have the notoriety of a Bill Belichick, gives up a 3rd for a back up QB just doesn't like his job anymore.
Is that better?

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Trading a 3rd round pick and selecting a 3rd round pick in the draft are two very different things, so I don't think you're too off-base with your thoughts. That said, I came in a little late to the conversation, so I'm hoping that I understand your stance as well as some others do.

I think if a team gave up their 3rd round pick to trade for Ryan Mallett, they'd have him as a borderline starter, competing for the opening day job. It wouldn't be with the thought that he'd automatically be their backup QB. It's also for that reason that I wonder how his contract may come into play, since it's a lower odds scenario that a team would part with a 3rd round pick without also extending him, for fear of losing him to free agency after only one season. Most of the time the team who gives up a higher round draft pick will make a strong effort to extend him, however this particular scenario makes it difficult to try and project since Mallett's value and potential compensation has a lot of grey area to it.

Crazy stuff--this Mallett talk

363839 said:

Definitely! Can da bum!
Seriously though, I guess I should have qualified my statement a bit.
Let me try again.
Any GM that does not have the notoriety of a Bill Belichick, gives up a 3rd for a back up QB just doesn't like his job anymore.
Is that better?

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Note that "Win" just means that the trade worked out for the team:

Green Bay gave up a 1st for Favre - Clear win for GB
Denver gave up a 1st and got Elway - Clear win for Denver
Minnesota gave up a 1st for Tarkenton - Clear win for Minnesota
Washington gave up a 1st for Theisman - Clear win for Washington
K.C. gave up a 1st for Montana - Pretty clear win for K.C., who got to the AFCCG


There are others that are at least decent examples, but those show that making such trades (and some of the trades above involved more than just the 1st round pick mentioned) can be very good for the team looking for a QB.