Shazier vs. Mosley

So it seems like many of us, myself included, have talked ourselves into the feasibility of drafting Shazier at 29 or shortly thereafter.

It seems, though, that Shazier's stock is rising while CJ Mosley's is falling. While I tend to believe half of what I see and none of what I hear these days, it seems at least possible that both will be available when we pick, or near enough for a modest trade up. Obviously Mosley's been on TV often enough to have seen his work, but I'm less comfortable evaluating Shazier. I see them both compared to Lavonte David, but that seems lazy and/or reckless.

So I throw it to you. What should BB do if both are available? Is there enough separating them to trade up 3-4 spots to get one? If both are sitting at 29, should he pounce on one or should he trade back until one is taken, then draft the other? Let's assume that Bb has decided to draft an undersized, athletic linebacker, and all the other highly-regarded first-round possibilities (Hageman, Nix, Pryor, Easley) are taken. I'm just looking for a side-by-side valuation of Mosely and Shazier.

I'm going to be in the vast minority but I don't like either at 29.

With Mosley I don't see him as being explosive enough to play the hybrid S/LB role. I don't see him being able to cover man to man like Jamie Collins showed he could. Additionally I don't really think he's even that good against the run. He doesn't shed blockers, gets lost in the trash and benefitted from playing behind a good Bama line.

With Shazier I do think he's explosive enough. I think he would benefit from getting drafted by the Steelers however. I feel like he could be Troy Polamalu part two for them. I know people will say well why couldn't we use a player like that. Simply put Bill wants to put together a unit that works together not a rover who makes reads based on instincts. Sometimes those reads mean huge plays for the Steelers and others the opposition. It's a major reason Brady has nearly always done well against the Steelers. He sets him up like nobody else. Shazier much like Polamalu plays best when he's playing downhill. I think Shazier can play zone but I'm not convinced he can man up. He can penetrate both as a run defender and a blitzer. He can go sideline to sideline. I think he needs to be allowed to play instinctively and not be bound by scheme and Bill wants guys who fit the scheme.

I think he'll have a very good career for the right team I'm just not sure enough that's the Patriots to take him in the first round.

I doubt this will be a surprise to anybody, but to me Mosley is the far better player and it isn't close. You can keep your 40 times and combine numbers, Mosley comes out way ahead in the only category that matters and that is his ability to play football. There have been a few threads about Shazier lately and I was pretty clear I want no part of him at 29. Mosley I would certainly consider depending on who else is on the board. I think he is a much better fit as a traditional LBer at either MLB or WLB and offers just as much, if not more coverage ability because he has much more experience in that area. I think he is a better tackler, has better instincts, is a better fit and much better value at 29 than Shazier. For me this is another case where I'll take the football player over the athlete every day of the week and twice on Sundays. But that's just my opinion and I know I'll probably be in the minority on here (again )

Mosley wouldn't be able to realize his potential with us. Look at how much better Hightower looked when Spikes wasn't on the field. Putting Mayo and Mosley on the field together would put him in coverage all the time, or blitzing all the time, and that's not how you get value out of him.

Mosley! !!!!

Get it shawtaay said:

Mosley wouldn't be able to realize his potential with us. Look at how much better Hightower looked when Spikes wasn't on the field. Putting Mayo and Mosley on the field together would put him in coverage all the time, or blitzing all the time, and that's not how you get value out of him.

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If we didn't have Hightower, I'd be all for putting Mosley at MLB with Mayo at WILL and Collins at SAM. I think that would be a fabulous group. Mosley has the field generalship and coverage ability to excel. But we have Hightower, and unless we're looking at moving him to DE or trading him, I'm not sure how Mosley fits. Shazier is more of a complementary piece, a LB/S hybrid and speed player who can be used off of blitzes. The question is whether he provides enough and will get on the field enough to justify taking at 29.

mayoclinic said:

If we didn't have Hightower, I'd be all for putting Mosley at MLB with Mayo at WILL and Collins at SAM. I think that would be a fabulous group. Mosley has the field generalship and coverage ability to excel. But we have Hightower, and unless we're looking at moving him to DE or trading him, I'm not sure how Mosley fits. Shazier is more of a complementary piece, a LB/S hybrid and speed player who can be used off of blitzes. The question is whether he provides enough and will get on the field enough to justify taking at 29.

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Well then the question would be, should the Patriots consider upgrading on Hightower or looking for a backup to Collins. Because I think it's going to be hard finding anyone in this year's draft class with the length, athleticism, and coverage ability of Collins.

Basically to me it sounds like - Mosley is a better covering Hightower and Shazier is a shorter version of Collins. Things that make you go hmmm.

My take? LB is not a need per se. We need depth but it's not nearly as much of a need as DL imo. Where we also need depth, but consider that Chandler Jones and Ninkovich pretty much had to take 97% of the snaps. That's called overworked.

Unless Shazier can rotate at DE, I think getting that 3rd passrusher/DE would be more helpful and a higher priority to our team defensive picture.

But what does anyone know about this draft. A raw, unheralded prospect like Ndiaye could be the answer at rotational DE and he might not be taken until day 3 if at all.

VJCPatriot said:

Well then the question would be, should the Patriots consider upgrading on Hightower or looking for a backup to Collins. Because I think it's going to be hard finding anyone in this year's draft class with the length, athleticism, and coverage ability of Collins.

Basically to me it sounds like - Mosley is a better covering Hightower and Shazier is a shorter version of Collins. Things that make you go hmmm.

My take? LB is not a need per se. We need depth but it's not nearly as much of a need as DL imo. Where we also need depth, but consider that Chandler Jones and Ninkovich pretty much had to take 97% of the snaps. That's called overworked.

Unless Shazier can rotate at DE, I think getting that 3rd passrusher/DE would be more helpful and a higher priority to our team defensive picture.

But what does anyone know about this draft. A raw, unheralded prospect like Ndiaye could be the answer at rotational DE and he might not be taken until day 3 if at all.

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I like Christian Jones as a backup at all 3 LB positions. He's played them all - SAM, WILL, and MLB. He has similar range and coverage ability compared to Mosley, and he's not nearly as undersized as Shazier. He doesn't have quite the raw speed of Shazier, but he's more than adept enough in coverage and blitzing off the edge. He was used as a DE this season, and even at DT at times because he's so adept at taking on blockers and in run support, which is also a major plus for a Pats' LB.

I'm more than happy to target raw DE prospects like Ndiaye or Terrance Fede late in the draft or as UDFAs and hoping that one will develop.

Terrance Bullitt is the OLB I've been tracking for a while. I think he would be a great day 3 alternative for the role we see Shazier in.

Get it shawtaay said:

Terrance Bullitt is the OLB I've been tracking for a while. I think he would be a great day 3 alternative for the role we see Shazier in.

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I'm game for a linebacker with a name like that so long as his name lives up to his style of play.

manxman2601 said:

I'm game for a linebacker with a name like that so long as his name lives up to his style of play.

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He's got bloodlines. Brother is Melvin Bullitt. Dad was an Aggie. He's the black sheep - went to Texas Tech instead.

His tape is uneven but the upside is tangible. Tech put him in coverage on Jalen Saunders a few snaps. Obviously he got beat but that says a lot to me. He got used as something between a LB and S in college.

Get it shawtaay said:

He's got bloodlines. Brother is Melvin Bullitt. Dad was an Aggie. He's the black sheep - went to Texas Tech instead.

His tape is uneven but the upside is tangible. Tech put him in coverage on Jalen Saunders a few snaps. Obviously he got beat but that says a lot to me. He got used as something between a LB and S in college.

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Oh and since this is a Patriots fan site I better plug the 6.75 3-cone.

Athletic LB that can play in space and make an impact in passing situations? All I can say is "Finally", it feels 5 years too late.

I didn't watch any Ohio State games but Mosley appears to be quite instinctive, most of the time he was lined up with many other NFL quality players especially across the defensive line which elevated his play. Mosley seems like a pretty sure bet.

I think the Patriots expect 1st rounders to play all 3 downs, this would be a departure. But since the Revis signing anything can happen.

Is anybody else tempted to subtract an Alabama Factor for Mosley? Their defense has been so loaded with talent under Saban that everybody ends up making everybody else look good. (A similar player on another team might get schemed against, etc.)

When was the last time an Alabama defender outplayed his draft slot?

patchick said:

Is anybody else tempted to subtract an Alabama Factor for Mosley? Their defense has been so loaded with talent under Saban that everybody ends up making everybody else look good. (A similar player on another team might get schemed against, etc.)

When was the last time an Alabama defender outplayed his draft slot?

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Roman Harper.

...Point taken.

patchick said:

Is anybody else tempted to subtract an Alabama Factor for Mosley? Their defense has been so loaded with talent under Saban that everybody ends up making everybody else look good. (A similar player on another team might get schemed against, etc.)

When was the last time an Alabama defender outplayed his draft slot?

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Arguably the one that has is James Lester at Carolina and he's the one I liked the least.

manxman2601 said:

Arguably the one that has is James Lester at Carolina and he's the one I liked the least.

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I liked him better two years before he came out and then he regressed.

I totally believe Bama is so loaded it makes all of them look better and I think Mosley is no exception.

For me the choice is Shazier and it's not even close. Love the explosion and athleticism. But he's not just a combine / measurable guy. Had the best season for an Ohio State LB in 25 years. 144 tackles, 23.5 TFL and 7 sacks.

Imagine him and Jamie Collins on the field at the same time!!!

Its pretty close for me. I would lean towards Shazier because of the athleticism . I also wouldn't be surprised if he is the pick considering he was coached by Vrabel at OSU. Shazier is pretty versatile and he can serve as the LB/S hybrid initially on passing downs and is good LB depth.

I would also like to take Christian Jones in the 4th to be additional LB depth (don't have much faith in Beauharnais) and it would be great if Shazier made the switch to SS.

patchick said:

Is anybody else tempted to subtract an Alabama Factor for Mosley? Their defense has been so loaded with talent under Saban that everybody ends up making everybody else look good. (A similar player on another team might get schemed against, etc.)

When was the last time an Alabama defender outplayed his draft slot?

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I dunno. I think that the minus incurred by playing for such a talented squad is largely offset by the plus for playing Florida, LSU, Auburn, etc every year.