Patriots Pass Rush Should Upgrade With Collins, Buchanan

NewFeep said:

I believe BB will trade out of round 1 and do exactly what your theorize JSP.

If this is as deep a draft as all the "experts" are touting if would simply make too much sense..........

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It does make sense - though it might also be more difficult to find a trading partner given the depth of the draft (or Belichick doesn't get top value for #29)

mgteich said:

1) We were talking about the recent past. Also, the suggestion was that we could use late round picks for starting interior linemen. We haven't done this since we drafted Koppen.

2) [You can call Cannon a consensus #2 if you like. he was diagnosed with CANCER pre combine!!!It's not ME calling him anything As Andy keeps on reminding us, if a player was a consensus #2, he would have been drafted in the 2nd round.I'm NOT ANDY. I READ draft sites and mocks. THAT Is where I "get it" I did like the Cannon pick. He has performed well as backup at RT, RG and even TE. Some here think that he is clearly our best RG and should be starting. Dante never believed this, and Belichick clearly does not. Also, we continue to need a backup OT. For now, this year, Mankins is the backup LT and Mankins is the backup RT (and RG also).

3) I have been wanted to draft a top interior lineman for years. Belichick has decided not to use picks in the early rounds for an interior lineman. In the end, no lineman after the 3rd has even made the team, except Cannon (who was and is a tackle; in is considered an exception because of his illness).

4) Almost ALL of us understand that the Wendell/Connolly/Cannon at C/RG is only a temporary solution.

ANALYSIS AND CONCLUSION
Is it reasonable to expect a quality starter in the 4th, 5th or 6th round. Many here would answer a resounding "yes". My answer would be "not likely". It is certainly possible. More likely, we would end up with a player no better than Connolly, Wendell and Cannon (surely not as good as Cannon since such a player is 2nd round quality according to you).

If we want a top interior lineman, then we need to use quality draft picks. If not, then we will only have ONE of the best offensive lines in the NFL, with 3 1st rounders and a couple of average or slightly below average interior linemen as the other starter. This is NOT a terrible situation.

OPTIONS AND CONCLUSION
We could use a future starter at RG and at C. We could also use a backup RT, since Cannon is on his contract year. This backup could also be expected to backup at another position, LT or RG.

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It's NOT according to me. Why are you getting so personally *****ty??? READ the goddamned draft sites and boards archived. BEFORE he was diagnosed, he was considered to be a 2nd round pick by as many boards as YOU can GOOGLE for chrissakes. Stop the ad hominems, I'm in no mood to get into Mr Know-It-All wants to besmirch ANYBODY else with a divergent opinion. And EXCUSE FRIGGIN ME for seeing what YOU are NOT seeing. In case you have forgotten, opinion is what DRIVES sports message boards.

2011/04/27 at 2:15 pm
2011 NFL Mock Draft Rounds 1-3: Raiders Steal Marcus Cannon, Marcus Gilchrist?
Posted by Michael Gartman (Founder, Senior Writer)

The 2011 NFL Draft kicks off in less than a week and fans are swarming to the latest news, information and mock draft projections for their designated teams.





Round 2, Pick 16—Marcus Cannon, G, TCU

Oakland’s biggest need approaching the 2011 season is upgrading the offensive line—specifically at guard—but don’t tell Al Davis because he’ll choose whoever ran the fastest time.

Marcus Cannon had a phenomenal Combine performance and is ready to provide an instant impact.

2011 NFL Mock Draft Rounds 1-3: Raiders Steal Marcus Cannon, Marcus Gilchrist? | GridironGrit.com

here's a site that rated him 32nd best player in the entire draft

Steal of the Draft: Marcus Cannon | NFL Draft Blog ? DraftAce.com

Yardbarker...part of Fox Sports...31st best player on this board

Steal of the Draft: Marcus Cannon | Yardbarker.com

USA Today...."Cannon, selected with the 138th pick, was projected as a potential second-round talent by some analysts before his medical issues surfaced."

Shortly after cancer diagnosis, Marcus Cannon drafted by Patriots

I can go on all day but the point is...YOU are 100% WRONG...none of this is "according to" me. You should retract what you printed but I'm guessing being this supreme knower of things, you won't, or more likely can't.

I'm STILL trying to understand how your "genius" leads you to believe that the Pats need to draft TWO linebackers before any O linemen.

fair enough

Some think that if we are to get a "stud" center or guard (even one to start in 2015), we will need to use a pick in the first three rounds. Others simply do not want to use such a high pick on an interior lineman.

For me, if all we want is a backup, I'd want a tackle who could also play RG.

JoeSixPat said:

Correct. Tackles typically need to be taken in the first two days - interior linemen do not.

That doesn't mean Belichick won't take a tackle early with an eye to the future and rotate him into the middle - but if we're looking for OL depth, Belichick can find quality guys later in the draft.

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I don't understand your anger.

I don't consider a 2nd round talent who is later found to have a very serious disease to still be a 2nd round talent. You and others disagree; that's fine. As I said, I was fine with drafting Cannon in the 5th round. Perhaps if he were truly worth more, another team would have drafted him higher.

In any case, FOR ME, the real issue is the present. Cannon has been and is a solid backup at RG and RT. He has one year left on his contract. I would rather bring in a draftee at RG and/or C rather than try to move Cannon to RG for one year and then look for a 2015 RG and a backup OT.
As long as we draft a backup OT, I'm fine with Cannon competing for the RG starting spot. However, if he were successful, he would likely try to leave after the season for more money elsewhere.

Joker said:

It's NOT according to me. Why are you getting so personally *****ty??? READ the goddamned draft sites and boards archived. BEFORE he was diagnosed, he was considered to be a 2nd round pick by as many boards as YOU can GOOGLE for chrissakes. Stop the ad hominems, I'm in no mood to get into Mr Know-It-All wants to besmirch ANYBODY else with a divergent opinion. And EXCUSE FRIGGIN ME for seeing what YOU are NOT seeing. In case you have forgotten, opinion is what DRIVES sports message boards.

2011/04/27 at 2:15 pm
2011 NFL Mock Draft Rounds 1-3: Raiders Steal Marcus Cannon, Marcus Gilchrist?
Posted by Michael Gartman (Founder, Senior Writer)

The 2011 NFL Draft kicks off in less than a week and fans are swarming to the latest news, information and mock draft projections for their designated teams.





Round 2, Pick 16—Marcus Cannon, G, TCU

Oakland’s biggest need approaching the 2011 season is upgrading the offensive line—specifically at guard—but don’t tell Al Davis because he’ll choose whoever ran the fastest time.

Marcus Cannon had a phenomenal Combine performance and is ready to provide an instant impact.

2011 NFL Mock Draft Rounds 1-3: Raiders Steal Marcus Cannon, Marcus Gilchrist? | GridironGrit.com

here's a site that rated him 32nd best player in the entire draft

Steal of the Draft: Marcus Cannon | NFL Draft Blog ? DraftAce.com

Yardbarker...part of Fox Sports...31st best player on this board

Steal of the Draft: Marcus Cannon | Yardbarker.com

USA Today...."Cannon, selected with the 138th pick, was projected as a potential second-round talent by some analysts before his medical issues surfaced."

Shortly after cancer diagnosis, Marcus Cannon drafted by Patriots

I can go on all day but the point is...YOU are 100% WRONG...none of this is "according to" me. You should retract what you printed but I'm guessing being this supreme knower of things, you won't, or more likely can't.

I'm STILL trying to understand how your "genius" leads you to believe that the Pats need to draft TWO linebackers before any O linemen.

Click to expand...

NewFeep said:

I believe BB will trade out of round 1 and do exactly what your theorize JSP.

If this is as deep a draft as all the "experts" are touting if would simply make too much sense..........

Click to expand...

I was under this belief as well, until the general consensus at the league meetings from GMs became apparent that just about everyone is attempting to trade down in this year's draft.

The depth is there, it's an excellent draft. If Belichick can find a trading partner, I imagine he'll do it. The problem may be locating someone to give us additional picks, however.

supafly said:

I was under this belief as well, until the general consensus at the league meetings from GMs became apparent that just about everyone is attempting to trade down in this year's draft.

The depth is there, it's an excellent draft. If Belichick can find a trading partner, I imagine he'll do it. The problem may be locating someone to give us additional picks, however.

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We'll just have to wait and see......

Seems to me some team is always lusting after a certain player that they think is a key addition and afraid of losing him right before their pick spot.

I am relying on the Oaklands, Jaguars, Titans, Cowboys, Bucs, Etc of the NFL to get fleeced by BB!

I hope the Pats are not depending on Buchanan as a main cog in their pass rush next season.

I don't see the excitement a lot of you guys are having over him. Would not be surprised if he is cut.

Page 7 of a thread about Jamie Collins and Michael Buchanan is discussing where Marcus Cannon would have been drafted.

We "should" keep five DE's as we did last year. Obviously, one of them should be able to play inside if needed.

Last year, we had Jones, Ninkovich, Buchanan, Carter and Bequette.

Noting that Carter isn't even re-signed, it seems likely that Buchanan will make the team. Will we really sign THREE players and dump Buchanan?

Buchanan showed a bit as a rookie, certainly more than Bequette did in his two years. Buchanan wasn't quite equal to an old JAG vet.

I expect that we will sign another old JAG vet, bringing us to where we were last year. The question in my mind is whether we will find an upgrade to Bequette.

As a side note, the pass rush will likely perform better, given that Revis and Browner are our corners.

condon84 said:

I hope the Pats are not depending on Buchanan as a main cog in their pass rush next season.

I don't see the excitement a lot of you guys are having over him. Would not be surprised if he is cut.

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manxman2601 said:

Rob Ninkovich is 6'2" and only eight pounds heavier.

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And Rob needed 4 years to become the player he is and cost us a bag of socks in August. Ford is not only short for the position, even more importantly he's short armed as well. He does have good speed and an explosive first step, but so do a lot of other guys who won't cost us nearly as much. As much as I want a DT or DE with our first pick, I'd rather draft an interior OLman, than Ford at 29

manxman2601 said:

Rob Ninkovich is 6'2" and only eight pounds heavier.

Click to expand...

And Rob needed 4 years to become the player he is and cost us a bag of socks in August. Ford is not only short for the position, even more importantly he's short armed as well. He does have good speed and an explosive first step, but so do a lot of other guys who won't cost us nearly as much. As much as I want a DT or DE with our first pick, I'd rather draft an interior OLman, than Ford at 29

Hageman is my idea choice, but like most dreams, with every passing day, it become less likely. So if Tuitt is there at 29, I'd take him over the 3 top TE's that are likely to be there, all of the OLman, and DEFINITELY DFord

Comments on the OL talk on this thread,

1. Ir was once a rarity when an OG slipped into the first round. However as defenses search for strategies to attack the middle of the OL, the positions of C and OG have increased in value and recently we've seen a significant increase in OG, and C's getting taken ever higher in the draft

2. I'm not convinced that the fact that Cannon hasn't seen significant time at RG in his first 3 years is a sign that Dante or BB don't think he can play the position. He has proven to be a capable starter at OT when asked. He'd likely be a starting OT on a lot of teams that didn't have the best RT in the league and one of the top 10 LT's in the league.

You cannot convince me that the combination of his size and athleticism wouldn't be an asset at RG, where his strength and power could be put to use to anchor his area. Too many OT's have made the switch almost seamlessly. In fact, during the run up to his draft, many thought OG was his natural position.

3. History have given us too many examples of OLmen picked after the 3rd round and became "stud" offensive linemen. However in most of those examples it took a few years before the transformation to happen. So it the REAL issue here is how do we upgrade on the interior OL NOW, than its unlikely that we will get help from this draft.

On the draft board a number of names have been tossed around, and many look like great prospects to me, but not prospects I'd pick in the first 2 rounds, nor would I reasonably expect to come in an start right away.

4. If BB surprises us (again), and drafts an offensive lineman in the first 2 rounds, then those who opined that the OL situation was dire, would be proven correct IMO. If not then I would infer that BB is happy with what he has on the OL for THIS year

patfanken said:

Comments on the OL talk on this thread,

1. I was a rarity when an OG slipped into the first round. However as defenses search for strategies to attack the middle of the OL, the positions of C and OG have increased in value and recently we've seen a significant increase in OG, and C's getting taken ever higher in the draft

2. I'm not convinced that the fact that Cannon hasn't seen significant time at RG in his first 3 years is a sign that Dante or BB don't think he can play the position. He has proven to be a capable starter at OT when asked. He'd likely be a starting OT on a lot of teams that didn't have the best RT in the league and one of the top 10 LT's in the league.

You cannot convince me that the combination of his size and athleticism wouldn't be an asset at RG, where his strength and power could be put to use to anchor his area. Too many OT's have made the switch almost seamlessly. In fact, during the run up to his draft, many thought OG was his natural position.

3. History have given us too many examples of OLmen picked after the 3rd round and became "stud" offensive linemen. However in most of those examples it took a few years before the transformation to happen. So it the REAL issue here is how do we upgrade on the interior OL NOW, than its unlikely that we will get help from this draft.

On the draft board a number of names have been tossed around, and many look like great prospects to me, but not prospects I'd pick in the first 2 rounds, nor would I reasonably expect to come in an start right away.

4. If BB surprises us (again), and drafts an offensive lineman in the first 2 rounds, then those who opined that the OL situation was dire, would be proven correct IMO. If not then I would infer that BB is happy with what he has on the OL for THIS year

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I don't really believe that going OL early will be a surprise, it's among the top 3 needs, it just depends on an individuals perception of where the biggest problem lies.

I personally believe that protecting Tom Brady is more important than any other role on the team, outside of BEING Tom Brady.

Even if Wendell/Connolly pair may not be as awful as some portray them to be (they're still not a good pair by any standards), every mistake they make has the potential to be substantially more costly than say ...Jones and Ninko not providing pass rush late in the season due to palying 96+% of the snaps, or lacking a "true" #1 WR or Tight End backup.

Yes, we've had a lot of success with late round OL, but the top 3 players on our current OL are 2 1st's and a 2nd round pick, and the top backup, in Cannon was a potential 2nd or 3rd round pick before his medical concerns made him plummet.

Scar is gone, we will need to invest more premium into the OL most likely unless Daboll is a miracle worker.