Boston Magazine: The Krafts Are the Worst Owners in the MLS

Patsrock said:

Because MLS is going after 18-35 year olds who live in the city. Who follow the US National team. Build a 18K-20K Stadium around Somerville/Revere and the Revs sell out every game.


If people don't think soccer in the country can take off you don't pay attention to what is happening. Look this summer in Boston at how many bars will be packed to capacity watching the US World Cup games.
When the league started in 1996. It was played in all NFL Stadiums.

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No doubt about games being sold out at 18-20K in a new soccer specific stadium.

As far as soccer in this country it has a huge following. And if you think no one cares about it you are uninformed and dead wrong. Watch the world cup this summer and see the following that has. Fan clubs all over US for EPL,La liga,Serie A,Bundesliga. Heck if the revs get a new stadium and ownership commited to winning i might start following although tough going from Bayern level of play to revs. But in time MLS can prosper.

Gator Mike said:

But they've been eyeing Somerville for SIX YEARS now. Jonathan Kraft said recently that they thought they had something done for Somerville's InnerBelt area in 2008, but the recession made things such that the numbers wouldn't work.

There's nowhere else in Somerville to put it. Every other significant piece of land is either spoken for or isn't nearly big enough.

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Somerville.

C'mon folks. How much clearer can it be?

http://thesomervillenewsweekly.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/20140205-164044.jpg

Gator Mike said:

Attendance is down ~5,000 per game over the past 10 years, so lots of people have made that exact decision.

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Wow, I didn't know they had 5000 fans ever!

Patsrock said:

Because MLS is going after 18-35 year olds who live in the city. Who follow the US National team. Build a 18K-20K Stadium around Somerville/Revere and the Revs sell out every game.

If people don't think soccer in the country can take off you don't pay attention to what is happening. Look this summer in Boston at how many bars will be packed to capacity watching the US World Cup games.
When the league started in 1996. It was played in all NFL Stadiums.

Now in the 19th season 19 teams and only 2 play in NFL Stadiums. NE and Seattle. Seattle averages 44K a game.

MLS in 2013 just had its 2nd best avg attendance 18.6K just behind 2012 18.8K.

MLS is the 7th highest attended Soccer league in the World.

Not saying it will ever catch any of the US leagues but MLS is here to stay.

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7th in the world, so we finally beat out Bolivia?

And to be honest your statistics kill your argument: if the league average is 18k yet Seattle's average is 44k, then there is a terrible skew in the data and some teams must really be dragging the average down.

MLS does not capitalize on nationalism like the US team can/does. In fact posters here are complaining that the Revs don't sign enough international players. That leaves us with the ugly truth that the level of play in the US does equate to what posters here are calling a C league level. You can import players to try to boost the level, but the more you do that, the less connected the local fans will feel.

As was mentioned earlier, the Revs are merely a hedge the Krafts have purchased just in case MLS ever catches on in a big way. Till that happens, the team will be kept around at a subsistence level. I can't imagine the Krafts investing in a purpose built facility unless that facility had a good chance of returning the investment with interest. Perhaps if it was attached to a convention center, lol, just like the old Southie proposal the Krafts cooked up years ago?

To be honest, I don't know how much better an owner one should want. You might get someone come along and dump a lot of money into the team but the odds are that it won't be sustainable and the whole thing will just implode and there'd be no team at all. I think the fans that want to see MLS soccer being played should be glad they have the Krafts till the fundamental economics of the game improve.

Bill Lee said:

Wow, I didn't know they had 5000 fans ever!



7th in the world, so we finally beat out Bolivia?

And to be honest your statistics kill your argument: if the league average is 18k yet Seattle's average is 44k, then there is a terrible skew in the data and some teams must really be dragging the average down.

MLS does not capitalize on nationalism like the US team can/does. In fact posters here are complaining that the Revs don't sign enough international players. That leaves us with the ugly truth that the level of play in the US does equate to what posters here are calling a C league level. You can import players to try to boost the level, but the more you do that, the less connected the local fans will feel.

As was mentioned earlier, the Revs are merely a hedge the Krafts have purchased just in case MLS ever catches on in a big way. Till that happens, the team will be kept around at a subsistence level. I can't imagine the Krafts investing in a purpose built facility unless that facility had a good chance of returning the investment with interest. Perhaps if it was attached to a convention center, lol, just like the old Southie proposal the Krafts cooked up years ago?

To be honest, I don't know how much better an owner one should want. You might get someone come along and dump a lot of money into the team but the odds are that it won't be sustainable and the whole thing will just implode and there'd be no team at all. I think the fans that want to see MLS soccer being played should be glad they have the Krafts till the fundamental economics of the game improve.

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Can you elaborate on the bolded? I don't see why this should follow, it's not the same for any other league anywhere.

The fact is that as much as the people who want to loudly declare how much they don't care about soccer whenever the topic comes up there's a pretty big appetite for it in this country. If there wasn't here wouldn't be 100% of PL games on NBC etc.

There are growth possibilities for MLS, but Kraft is clearly a passive owner rather than someone who is out there pushing the growth. He could easily put some money in it, attract some big name stars from abroad like a Defoe type and there'd be interest here and less league wide disparity/a slightly elevated level of play. I'd personally feel more connected to seeing someone like Ronaldinho than some bros straight from the frat house.

I also think it's lunacy that someone is allowed to own two sports teams in the same market, seems like an obvious conflict of interest to me.

Who'd wander that there would be a discussion about "soccer" in a Football Forum, lol.

It's a shame that i can't contribute with anything since i don't watch the NFL.
Well, maybe in the World Cup, amirite? Go Brazil

Bill Lee said:

MLS does not capitalize on nationalism like the US team can/does. In fact posters here are complaining that the Revs don't sign enough international players. That leaves us with the ugly truth that the level of play in the US does equate to what posters here are calling a C league level. You can import players to try to boost the level, but the more you do that, the less connected the local fans will feel.

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Apparently you missed the Draft in January. Oh, wait, so didn't everyone else.

Bill Lee said:

Wow, I didn't know they had 5000 fans ever!



7th in the world, so we finally beat out Bolivia?

And to be honest your statistics kill your argument: if the league average is 18k yet Seattle's average is 44k, then there is a terrible skew in the data and some teams must really be dragging the average down.

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Doesn't kill it at all. Take away Seattle MLS still average 17.5K. MLS stadiums average 19K in size. Still keeps then in Top 10 in the World. I am pretty you have no idea how many soccer countries there are in the World by making a smart ass comment like the Bolivia one.

Bill Lee said:

MLS does not capitalize on nationalism like the US team can/does. In fact posters here are complaining that the Revs don't sign enough international players. That leaves us with the ugly truth that the level of play in the US does equate to what posters here are calling a C league level. You can import players to try to boost the level, but the more you do that, the less connected the local fans will feel.

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100% wrong. The most connected to player on the Revs is a Defender from Portugal. One of the Revs most popular players ever is a Goalie from Italy. MLS is trying to strike a balance between US born players and International players. Soccer fans don't care where the player is from just be damn good.

And people calling a C league are wrong. MLS in on the 2nd level in this World in terms of league play. That's after 18 seasons. When every other league in the World is in 100+ years of play.

Bill Lee said:

As was mentioned earlier, the Revs are merely a hedge the Krafts have purchased just in case MLS ever catches on in a big way. Till that happens, the team will be kept around at a subsistence level. I can't imagine the Krafts investing in a purpose built facility unless that facility had a good chance of returning the investment with interest. Perhaps if it was attached to a convention center, lol, just like the old Southie proposal the Krafts cooked up years ago?

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Well they will not have a team much longer. MLS is growing and Krafts are being left behind big time. And yes MLS can take the franchise away easy. Single entity makes it very easy to give Kraft his $100M to $125M franchise fee back and sell the operating rights to another operator. Just happened last month with Chivas in LA.

You should do some research on Soccer Specific stadiums and what the bring in terms of money besides soccer games.

Bill Lee said:

To be honest, I don't know how much better an owner one should want. You might get someone come along and dump a lot of money into the team but the odds are that it won't be sustainable and the whole thing will just implode and there'd be no team at all. I think the fans that want to see MLS soccer being played should be glad they have the Krafts till the fundamental economics of the game improve.

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To be honest you know nothing about MLS/Soccer and the state of the game here in the United States.

I can give you a list of 18 owners in MLS that I would want over Kraft and next March I can give you 20 owners, when MLS expands to 21.

Wny should Revs fans be glad to have the worst owner in MLS?

Bill Lee said:

And to be honest your statistics kill your argument: if the league average is 18k yet Seattle's average is 44k, then there is a terrible skew in the data and some teams must really be dragging the average down.

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There's a team in Los Angeles called Chivas USA who had owners just as bad as the Krafts. They averaged something like 7,000 fans/game.

You can import players to try to boost the level, but the more you do that, the less connected the local fans will feel.

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Huh?

To be honest, I don't know how much better an owner one should want. You might get someone come along and dump a lot of money into the team but the odds are that it won't be sustainable and the whole thing will just implode and there'd be no team at all. I think the fans that want to see MLS soccer being played should be glad they have the Krafts till the fundamental economics of the game improve.

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Toronto FC spent roughly $100 million in players this winter. They're sold out for the season, merchandise sales have tripled, sponsorship money has doubled, and their first two games of the year have set viewership records on Canadian television.

After saying they expected to lose money on those three signings, they now say they expect to break even.

The LA Galaxy made money when they signed David Beckham and Robbie Keane.

I'd be shocked if Seattle doesn't make money on signing Obafemi Martins and Clint Dempsey.

`why is this garbage STILL on the PATRIOTS FOOTBALL DISCUSSION PAGE?

Other Sports Forum - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard

please move to appropriate location...thanx...(the millions of NFL fans who do not GAS about soccer)

Joker said:

`why is this garbage STILL on the PATRIOTS FOOTBALL DISCUSSION PAGE?

Other Sports Forum - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard

please move to appropriate location...thanx...(the millions of NFL fans who do not GAS about soccer)

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Agree that this thread should be moved by mods. What i find funny is how you made yourself the spokesperson of millions of NFL fans. As far as garbage the world disagrees with you. Dont let your hate override your reasoning. When that happens it is not your finest hour.

when a page is DISTINCTLY dedicated to PATRIOTS FANS, as in FANS OF NFL FOOTBALL-PATRIOTS SPECIFIC, then a donnybrook of bleating posts about SOCCER made thread specific, which has ZERO to do with NEP FOOTBALL , then it IS garbage.

I do NOT hate soccer. I do not hate the Revs. I DO NOT CARE!!!!! I do not log on here to discuss SOCCER on a NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS FAN BOARD. Anything not cogent to NEP FOOTBALL is nothing more than clutter...and clutter is GARBAGE.

what I find funny is how you ATTACK ME PERSONALLY for speaking THE TRUTH!!!! THIS SOCCER TALK DOES NOT BELONG HERE!!!!

Took a wrong turn from the North End and got stuck on Rt. 99 so I just passed by here today. Traffic was a mess so infrastructure needs a good deal of work, but there's nothing here and a new soccer stadium with a mini-Patriots Place mall/fashion outlets would be a great attraction.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3972238,-71.0648977,15z

Joker said:

when a page is DISTINCTLY dedicated to PATRIOTS FANS, as in FANS OF NFL FOOTBALL-PATRIOTS SPECIFIC, then a donnybrook of bleating posts about SOCCER made thread specific, which has ZERO to do with NEP FOOTBALL , then it IS garbage.

I do NOT hate soccer. I do not hate the Revs. I DO NOT CARE!!!!! I do not log on here to discuss SOCCER on a NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS FAN BOARD. Anything not cogent to NEP FOOTBALL is nothing more than clutter...and clutter is GARBAGE.

what I find funny is how you ATTACK ME PERSONALLY for speaking THE TRUTH!!!! THIS SOCCER TALK DOES NOT BELONG HERE!!!!

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I agree.

This is a forum for the greatest team on earth, and this forum should be about that. But considering Kraft owns both teams, and this is an article trashing RK, I don't think its so offensive having a discussion about it.

Joker said:

when a page is DISTINCTLY dedicated to PATRIOTS FANS, as in FANS OF NFL FOOTBALL-PATRIOTS SPECIFIC, then a donnybrook of bleating posts about SOCCER made thread specific, which has ZERO to do with NEP FOOTBALL , then it IS garbage.

I do NOT hate soccer. I do not hate the Revs. I DO NOT CARE!!!!! I do not log on here to discuss SOCCER on a NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS FAN BOARD. Anything not cogent to NEP FOOTBALL is nothing more than clutter...and clutter is GARBAGE.

what I find funny is how you ATTACK ME PERSONALLY for speaking THE TRUTH!!!! THIS SOCCER TALK DOES NOT BELONG HERE!!!!

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That being said...............................................It was nil nil after the first 45, the Somerville Revolution sporting their home colors, a silken kit of sky blue and cherry. The pitch neat and groomed as the Revs pressed their middies to the top of the 18...........ah...the beautiful game

shmessy said:

Somerville.

C'mon folks. How much clearer can it be?

http://thesomervillenewsweekly.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/20140205-164044.jpg

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What would be great is if they build another Patriots pro shop their too!

grrrrrrrrrrrrr...this keeps up in here and a sockya match is gonna break out....:beatingcoming:

Haven't read the full thread but wasn't their an effort, say 10 years ago, to build a stadium in the Columbus Circle area to be shared by Northeastern football and the Revs? Don't recall the exact reason the deal wasn't accomplished. I can't imagine it's easy to build any type of stadium in the urban Boston area due to zoning, politics, not-in-my-backyard, etc.

I am certainly no Revs expert, but I'm seriously getting a kick out of people pointing to Toronto FC as the way to go. TFC has never finished higher than 11th, never made the play-offs, totally pissed off their hardcore fans, and only out of total desperation made this move.

The team is owned by MLSE, who also own the Toronto Maple Leafs, owners of the longest Stanley Cup drought at 45+ years, and a mediocre Raptors franchise that is only now beginning to show signs of relevance. Toronto is the last place you should be looking for good ownership examples.

Were the Krafts still the worst owners in MLS when the Revs went to the play-offs 8 straight years, including 4 years in the finals? They were still at Gillette during that entire run and fan support was a bit higher during that time, peaking over 17,000. I'm sure it's tough to get out there, and yet 68,000+ do so on a weekly basis when the Pats play, so let's not make too much out of this excuse.

Regardless of whether they are or aren't good soccer owners (I really don't care), all I can say is if their neglect of the Revs to focus on the Patriots, well then, good. I'd much rather their focus be with the Patriots anyways.

convertedpatsfan said:

I am certainly no Revs expert, but I'm seriously getting a kick out of people pointing to Toronto FC as the way to go. TFC has never finished higher than 11th, never made the play-offs, totally pissed off their hardcore fans, and only out of total desperation made this move.

The team is owned by MLSE, who also own the Toronto Maple Leafs, owners of the longest Stanley Cup drought at 45+ years, and a mediocre Raptors franchise that is only now beginning to show signs of relevance. Toronto is the last place you should be looking for good ownership examples.

Were the Krafts still the worst owners in MLS when the Revs went to the play-offs 8 straight years, including 4 years in the finals? They were still at Gillette during that entire run and fan support was a bit higher during that time, peaking over 17,000. I'm sure it's tough to get out there, and yet 68,000+ do so on a weekly basis when the Pats play, so let's not make too much out of this excuse.

Regardless of whether they are or aren't good soccer owners (I really don't care), all I can say is if their neglect of the Revs to focus on the Patriots, well then, good. I'd much rather their focus be with the Patriots anyways.

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That is hardly the owners fault, they run a business side of the game, unless you are Jerry Jones. That has more to do with the coaches and players. It is the same thing that happen when navy team killed Bin Laden and some people were crediting Obama for his it.

patsfanboy said:

That is hardly the owners fault, they run a business side of the game, unless you are Jerry Jones. That has more to do with the coaches and players. It is the same thing that happen when navy team killed Bin Laden and some people were crediting Obama for his it.

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Are we talking Krafts or MLSE? I really don't know what you mean.