Wilfork Restructures Contract (3 Yr 22.5 Mil)

Brady_12 said:

Wouldn't wagering on something that would be a complete pull-out-of-your-ass guess by both of you be the textbook definition of measuring ****s?

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I don't think he got it.

TyronePoole said:

I'm getting pretty bored with this, you are just regurgitating what other posters said before without even reading the thread.

Anyone who sorts by sacks as a definitive defensive pass rush metric is not to be taken seriously. Pats were middle of the pack last year in pass defense efficiency. The year before that, with Vince, they were horrendous. Your argument doesn't even make sense Jones improved without Wilfork therefore he must be better with Wilfork because what, you say so? Because rahraharah Jones got double teamed! (not true at all btw). You are just making **** up. You have no idea what you are even watching, you are just repeating cliches.
Wilfork doesn't take up two defenders on passing downs, bro. He hasn't for like 3+ years at least.

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So, are you saying Jones didn't improve?
When you claim that Jones didn't get double teamed, do you have anything to back that up? Or are you just "making **** up" too?
Wilfork hasn't taken up two defenders for 3+ years at least? You can back that up too? Or are you just "making **** up"?

OhExaulted1 said:

I don't think he got it.

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Clearly he did not.

Danger Zone said:

So if I understand the math correct.

Wilfork will count not a dollar more off this years cap than he would if he had been released or traded, is this correct?

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I try to follow the cap math but given the data we currently have, I *think* this is true.

Brady_12 said:

So, are you saying Jones didn't improve?
When you claim that Jones didn't get double teamed, do you have anything to back that up? Or are you just "making **** up" too?
Wilfork hasn't taken up two defenders for 3+ years at least? You can back that up too? Or are you just "making **** up"?

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If you MORANS are gonna try to jump in when another scurries off at least read the post you are responding to correctly please. thx.

OhExaulted1 said:

I don't think he got it.

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Brady_12 said:

Clearly he did not.

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No, I don't think you get it. Wagering is a good way to cut through the BS when someone is just talking **** they don't believe for the sake of "winning" the argument v. someone who actually stands by what they are claiming. I know based on a number of factors roughly what i think the statistical likelihood is that one of the three will miss significant time next year. I was called out for claiming it will likely happen, and called an idiot who knows nothing about football blah blah blah.

This is a good way to cut to the chase without engaging in a bunch of petty "you have no penis and clearly know less than me about football" type posts with someone who is just here to try and win an argument for the sake of it.

If DaBruinz actually believed my position was as stupidly naive as he claimed and wasn't just here to flex his internet muscles he'd be right here taking me up on my lucrative offer to donate money to him at >2-1 odds.

bagwell368 said:

Know what I'm annoyed at?

What I'm annoyed at is that leading up to today a player with a historical 38% never play another down in the NFL injury occurs to a grossly overweight player whose grossly overweight brother, father, and mother all died young and were obese and his brother and father had diabetes, and his mother died of a stroke followed by a heart attack is ignored as a serious factor here by people who want to laud the player for his past (although let's not mention 2013 (they say it's a small sample size - I say he looked like crap), and give him a big pile of money that we don't have to.

Are all our holes fixed? No. Will they be after the draft? No. Would we better off with the $7.58M in additional cap to direct to areas we need help? That's the actual question. Neither side has had enough data - even this extension isn't proof positive - so what's with the guilt trip?

Pardon us unwashed savage unfeeling low lives for being concerned about VW being able to play at any professional level. Why is that concern inferior to your desire to retain big fat cuddly Vince based on the past? Does anybody want to seriously argue that Vince is NOT past his peak? Or that NT's or run package DT's are cheaper than when this contract was signed?

Nobody outside the medical staff and BB knows if they have an answer about him actually being in shape to play at a high level this year as of today - and if it's good enough. We can intimate that there is some hope, but how much? We'll see.

I'd rather be an unwashed savage unfeeling low life than a person who thinks we "owe" VW a dime beyond the limits of the rules if he can't earn it. VW will get his number retired in Foxobo regardless. He's a great player. Free agency should have washed away the pablum and naive mindset of fans a long time ago.

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Just to address some of your bolded comments:

1.) His brother, father and mother weren't upper tier athletes with a professional diet and weights program set out for them by both sporting and medical professionals.
2.) Those health issues of his family have always been there. Were you against signing him in the first place? extending him in 2010? If we are to follow your logic to it's conclusion.
3.) These factors weren't ignored at all... he had his guaranteed portion of his contract lowered to $3m. How is lowering the guaranteed portion ignoring the health risk? It is legitimately the opposite.
4.) You know we won't have these holes filled after the draft in one month's time do you? You seem pretty certain about the future. Are you Doc Brown? Should I invest in Tesla?
5.) No one is saying Vince is at his peak. The contract itself doesn't reflect him playing at his peak either. So I have no idea where you got that line of argument from.
6.) What is your obsession with someone thinking you are an unwashed low life savage? No one is saying you are unfeeling for wanting to cut Vince. All I am saying is, if it is your opinion that we should have cut him in favor of this restructure. Then by almost all measures you are wrong. We reduced his cap number, extended him in case he comes good, can cut him next year in case he comes bad.

That's probably enough of this discussion for one day. I'm a pretty happy Pats fan.

TyronePoole said:

If you MORANS are gonna try to jump in when another scurries off at least read the post you are responding to correctly please. thx.

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I hesitate to respond to someone who just called me a MORAN...
I leave it to you to wonder why...

TyronePoole said:

No, I don't think you get it. Wagering is a good way to cut through the BS when someone is just talking **** they don't believe for the sake of "winning" the argument v. someone who actually stands by what they are claiming. I know based on a number of factors roughly what i think the statistical likelihood is that one of the three will miss significant time next year. I was called out for claiming it will likely happen, and called an idiot who knows nothing about football blah blah blah.

This is a good way to cut to the chase without engaging in a bunch of petty "you have no penis and clearly know less than me about football" type posts with someone who is just here to try and win an argument for the sake of it.

If DaBruinz actually believed my position was as stupidly naive as he claimed and wasn't just here to flex his internet muscles he'd be right here taking me up on my lucrative offer to donate money to him at >2-1 odds.

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Again, what "number of factors"? Who is the MORAN here?

Brady_12 said:

I hesitate to respond to someone who just called me a MORAN...
I leave it to you to wonder why...

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If only I could guess

Brady_12 said:

Again, what "number of factors"? Who is the MORAN here?

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Now you are missing the point. If I'm an idiot for even suggesting that it is likely, I no longer have to show why I think it is the case. You have now become so certain that I am wrong it is irrelevant what I think.

Let me ask you this. If you have a pretty good idea about something and someone calls you an idiot for thinking it, would you rather a) take the 50 posts it will take to explain to that belligerent individual, if they are even receptive at all, why you are right or b) make a post that leaves them the option of either donating money to you or having to abandon the argument?

TyronePoole said:

If only I could guess

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Please tell me how you know Jones didn't improve? Didn't get double teamed?

Please tell me how you know VW hasn't been double teamed on passing downs in the last 3+ years?

I'm assuming you've watched the all-22 for the last several years and have stats to back these claims up.

I have not researched the all-22 over the last three years. Educate me. With facts, not hyperbole. This MORON is waiting.

The majority of Vince's effort for pass defense was wasted over these last few years because the secondary was bad. A NT taking up two blockers doesn't matter if guys in the secondary are getting beat.

Now when you got Revis and Browner getting physical and for the most part taking away those outside guys and have McCourty roaming the middle, Vince and Tommy Kelly taking up three blockers will be very effective for the pass rush.

Could see Chandler reaching 15-20 sacks this year and it wouldn't surprise me if Mayo, Hightower, and Collins combined for 15-20 sacks if Belichick decides to increase the blitzes.

TyronePoole said:

If only I could guess

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Other than trolling, do you have an end-game in sight here?

It's kind of telling that you are pissing all over the best feel-good thread we've had in weeks.

Brady_12 said:

Please tell me how you know Jones didn't improve?

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where did I say this ffs

DaBruinz said:

Why is one of Wilfork, Kelly or Armstead likely to be injured in a significant way? You do realize that you are talking out your arse on that one. None of those three are Injury prone. Kelly lost time for only the 2nd time in 9 years. Armstead had the same sort of infection from his surgery that Gronk had. (And the surgeries occurred at different hospitals with different doctors). And, last I looked, Vince had only missed time in 2006 and 2009 with injuries that didn't keep him out of the play-offs.



Now, I'm not saying that they are going to come in and start all 16 games and play 90% of the snaps each. I fully expect a rotation.



That being said, only a massive fool who doesn't understand the game at all would sit there and say that Wilfork occupying 2 blocker doesn't help the pass rush. Lets look at a typical set. 2WR, 1 RB, 2 TE, 5 OL, and QB. If Wilfork is occupying 2 OL, that leaves an OT and TE for Jones, the RG for Kelly, the RT for Ninkovich. That leaves Collins, Hightower, or Mayo in a favorable match-up either against a TE or RB. Or, it leaves the potential for a CB blitz.

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Dabriunz it's not use. Just let him troll on guesses.

TyronePoole said:

Now you are missing the point. If I'm an idiot for even suggesting that it is likely, I no longer have to show why I think it is the case. You have now become so certain that I am wrong it is irrelevant what I think.

Let me ask you this. If you have a pretty good idea about something and someone calls you an idiot for thinking it, would you rather a) take the 50 posts it will take to explain to that belligerent individual, if they are even receptive at all, why you are right or b) make a post that leaves them the option of either donating money to you or having to abandon the argument?

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I asked specific questions. Not dealing with your hypothetical questions. I don't always agree with the posters you're referencing, but you have done nothing but throw Borges-like bombs here so far as I can tell.

The truth is that no one knows what VW is going to bring next year. Your claims of his effectiveness on passing downs are completely baseless at this point. He has given 10 solid years to this team. He is worth the 3M dollar risk IMHO.

TyronePoole said:

where did I say this ffs

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I know you said this at some point, not going to search for it. How about the rest?

I think I'm done here. It's late. Have a good night.

Danger Zone said:

Other than trolling, do you have an end-game in sight here?

It's kind of telling that you are pissing all over the best feel-good thread we've had in weeks.

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Can I give this a thousand likes?

One of the greatest Patriots of all time (no fantasy points though). Vince farking Wilfork!!!

It was a little over 2 years ago (January 22, 2012) that Vince Wilfork was doing so much damage to the Baltimore Ravens that they were triple teaming him.

Wilfork’s performance against the Ravens was one for the ages: Six tackles, four hurries, three tackles for loss, and a sack. Greg Bedard of the Boston Globe says Wilfork was double or tripled teamed ten times.

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Vince Wilfork leads the way for revived Patriots defense | ProFootballTalk

It was just the season before this last one (where he got injured early), where Vince Wilfork was voted first team All-Pro.

The Jets were zone blocking on the right side of the line, which means right guard Brandon Moore and right tackle Austin Howard were going to double team Wilfork to start, and then Moore would head to the second level to pick off Mayo and open a hole...

...“It’s just man on man,” said Wilfork, who officially had three tackles. “I think if I can occupy two [blockers], I know one of my ’backers is free...

...“He’s an explosive guy that’s got very good football instincts. He knows where the ball is, he knows what they’re trying to do. He really responded to a lot of the different challenges or positions that we put him in. He’s done a very unselfish job and been very productive.”...

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Vince Wilfork in middle of it all for Patriots - Boston.com

Yet people want to complain because he was retained for a relatively meager amount of guaranteed money. :bricks: