Wilfork Restructures Contract (3 Yr 22.5 Mil)

DaBronxPats14 said:

We have 3 threads on this can we merge please.

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One of the threads was already closed. Merged the two open ones.

PatsFanInVa said:

Is a scerric more or less than a scintilla, btw?

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in Americanese that would be a "tick turd"...

This is a win-win situation for the Patriots. If Vince cannot play any longer,
they lose only three million dollars. If he is still a good player, they can pick
up an option for two more years. The Patriots also get 3.6 million in
salary cap relief.

I just hope the Patriots use this extra cap money to pick up a couple of
mid-range free agents (Blount?) and don't tuck it away for a rainy day.
Too bad this didn't happen at the start of free agency.

jsull87 said:

This forum really buggs me sometimes. A bunch of great posters, but only on this forum have i seen people look at bringing back a guy who has been the heart and soul of our defense... for a reduced contract, with only 3M garanteed as a negative.

It is his first major injury of his career. People keep throwing around diabetes issues, weight and recovery time issues without one single scerric of insight into how he is going with these issues. It's no better then the media agencies who throw out these rumours. Yes they are risks i dont argue that, but do you not think the pats have the most up to date info on his health?

The pats today just signed back an All Pro NT with very little financial risk (as first reported). We have lowered his cap hit to help the team. If he comes back to old form we have him for a good contract, if he truns out to play at a lesser level... it's basically a 1 year deal.

We even have great posters like Ken (sorry to single you out I respect you as a postser) who are saying good deal but couldn't this have been done earlier? we could have released him then resigned him to this deal, e.t.c 1.) if we realeased him he would be free to sign somewhere else, why take that risk? 2.) Negotiations are a 2 way street. I really think all of this is just nit picking. Do you not think if this could have been done earlier we would have?

This probably turned out a bit more ranty then i'd like. I am just a little disapointed some of the negative reaction to a deal that a.) lowers his cap hit b.) upside is it brings back a potential all pro NT and leader of our d c.) downside is it does it for very little risk and d.) actually extends him in the case his play returns back to the elite level.

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Great post, certainly the best one in this this thread, I could not agree with what you have said more!

PatsFanInVa said:

WOO HOOOOOOO I thought he'd be gone!

*Now* I'm getting excited about this d

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That's what your mom said last night. SNAP.

and that's my contribution.

Keyser Söze said:

That's what your mom said last night. SNAP.

and that's my contribution.

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Congrats, hilarious. Nothing like a mediocre "that's what she said".

Jimke said:

Hopefully, it lowers his 2014 cap so they can re-sign Blount.

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They had plenty of money to re-sign Blount if they wanted to. It could also be that Blount doesn't want to re-sign since his boy Talib is in Denver now.

bagwell368 said:

Signing Phillips to be a rotation guy/3rd down LDE might be more impact than drafting a DE at #29. The failure rate/long wait for production of 1st round DE's over the past 8 years or so is very high.

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Phillips has said on several occasions he won't sign with the Pats because he hates them..

PatsWickedPissah said:

Put down the bong.

Wify and Kels are run stoppers and blocker magnets.
The pass rush will come from others.
I do NOT expect Wilfork to be an 80% down player in 2014 + as in the past and neither do the Patriots given his contract.
This homer wishes the very best from players under contract.

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It's the fantasy football mentality. The only players who count are pass rushers, quarterbacks and receivers.

TyronePoole said:

look this is just wrong. It's not true. It is false. BAD.

Our pass rush has been absolute dog**** when he's been on the field, this idea that "he takes up two blockers!" and thus allows pass rushers to roam free is a cliche that is not grounded in fact. Guys that rush the passer in nickel and dime which is what needs to be run most of the time to be a good defense these days are the ones that actually take up two blockers and disrupt the backfield in a meaningful way.

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I do not know why you think that, 2011 and 2012 combined Wilfork had 9 sacks, 49 hurries, 3 forced fumbles, 6 fumble recoveries, 2 interceptions, 11 pass defends, and 10 run stuffs, look at other nose tackles and find another that is as productive as Wilfork.

The significance of Wilfork is huge especially to Chandler Jones, Wilfork generally lines up at DT on the right side in a 1Tech position, and he commands the OC and the LG, which leaves Jones to work 1on1 with the LT. Without Wilfork on the field, the other team can have their OC handle the 1Tech DT and that allows the LG to help the LT with Jones. Wilfork is essential to the defense, and his presences allows them to draft and groom a replacement properly rather than trying to fill that hole on the fly, which would have forced us to adjust our hybrid scheme and play more of a straight 4-3 or straight 3-4.

DaBruinz said:

Phillips has said on several occasions he won't sign with the Pats because he hates them..

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Any links to that claim? Never seen him say anything like that aside from after the lights out game.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I look to the 1st 2 rounds for a DT pick for an interior pass rusher along with Chris Jones who is not bad in that role and is already on the roster.

Did you miss my comment that VW was a run stopper and no longer an 80% down player? Yes, you did.

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I would actually expand and say that Wilfork and Kelly provide a pass rush they are not sack artists so posters do not see the pressure that they actually create. Since 2010, Kelly has 18 sacks, and Wilfork has 11 sacks, if you look at other DT and I am not talking about Geno Atkins who is a 290lb DT only capable of playing a 3Tech. Look at the actual 325lb plus DTs none of them except maybe Ngata who plays a lot of 5Tech have been as productive as Kelly and Wilfork as pass rushers.

TyronePoole said:

We are gearing up to challenge the Broncos. We need a pass rush. Where is that coming from exactly? This isn't 1985, the "he occupies 2 blockers" nonsense is not how it works these days. Look at teams that are successful against the pass, they don't utilize a big fat run stopper.

Yeah turn this into me rooting against Vince though and you being a proud homer, that's a pretty easy/lazy message board fallback.

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Mebane and Red Bryant had 1.5 sacks between them in 2013. Maybe you should go talk to Pete Carroll and ask him how football works, or maybe just stick to playing Madden and fantasy football.

Brady6 said:

That is great news! Wilfork will give us three more quality seasons of service I have NO doubt in my mind.

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Aging Big man, weighing 325, probably a lot more, coming off a major injury and you have NO doubt?

Love Vince but I DO have doubts. I believe the PATS front office has doubts also but because it's Vince they let emotion play a big part in this
decision. I really really hope he can come back strong but I won't be
surprised if he is not the Vince of old.

JayNM said:

When i first read the news, a big smile born in my face. However, the taste was slowly turning into bittersweet.

We are going to pay 7.5 Mill Next year for a 33 years old NT, who is clearly declining and was not much a pass-rusher in the first place.

Can someone clarify this for me, how much will Wilfork cost in Salary Cap this year and in the next? And if the Pats consider cutting him next Season?

EDIT - Oh, there's 3 Mill only Guaranted. Alright, that's a lot better. Still not the best contract overall.

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HUH?? Wilfork wasn't DECLINING this past year. Before he tore the Achilles, he was trying to play through it being hurt. That's what led to the tear.

Wilfork was going to cost the Pats 11.6Million against the cap prior to this restructure and extension. That was 7.5 Mill in salary, 300K for a weight bonus, and 3.6 million for the previous signing bonus Amortization. Cutting Wilfork would have potentially saved 7.8M, but left a huge hole on the line.

Restructuring his deal the way the Pats seem to have done with playing time incentives means that, in theory, Wilfork could only cost them 6.6 Million on the cap (a savings of some $5M) and the rest pushed into next year. But that is just ONE way the Pats could have arranged it. There are others. And, until the details come out, we won't know.

But what we DO know is that Wilfork will cost at least $4.6M against this years cap (3.6 from the previous SB and $1 of the guaranteed money). The cap hit will go up from there.

BradyFTW! said:

That's not true. He's not a significant asset in the pass rush, but he's not a liability. Anyone who commands a double team is, pretty much by definition, an asset in any situation where they're commanding a double team. He won't get many sacks, but if he's anything close to what he was in the past, he will push the pocket and command a double team.

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Pass rush, pass rush, pass rush. All that matters is pass rush, don't you understand? Forget the fact that Kelly and Wilfork tying up 3-4 blockers gives Chandler a clear shot, and when the QB tries to step up in the pocket, whoops.

Chandler had 17.5 sacks playing with a healthy Wilfork. Even with a ? Wilfork he had 3 in 3 games, then 8.5 in the 13 games without him.

It just blows my mind that on a football site people think pass rushers are going to breeze in when there's no pressure up the middle.

jsull87 said:

This forum really bugs me sometimes. A bunch of great posters, but only on this forum have i seen people look at bringing back a guy who has been the heart and soul of our defense... for a reduced contract, with only 3M guaranteed as a negative.

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Know what I'm annoyed at?

What I'm annoyed at is that leading up to today a player with a historical 38% never play another down in the NFL injury occurs to a grossly overweight player whose grossly overweight brother, father, and mother all died young and were obese and his brother and father had diabetes, and his mother died of a stroke followed by a heart attack is ignored as a serious factor here by people who want to laud the player for his past (although let's not mention 2013 (they say it's a small sample size - I say he looked like crap), and give him a big pile of money that we don't have to.

Are all our holes fixed? No. Will they be after the draft? No. Would we better off with the $7.58M in additional cap to direct to areas we need help? That's the actual question. Neither side has had enough data - even this extension isn't proof positive - so what's with the guilt trip?

Pardon us unwashed savage unfeeling low lives for being concerned about VW being able to play at any professional level. Why is that concern inferior to your desire to retain big fat cuddly Vince based on the past? Does anybody want to seriously argue that Vince is NOT past his peak? Or that NT's or run package DT's are cheaper than when this contract was signed?

Nobody outside the medical staff and BB knows if they have an answer about him actually being in shape to play at a high level this year as of today - and if it's good enough. We can intimate that there is some hope, but how much? We'll see.

I'd rather be an unwashed savage unfeeling low life than a person who thinks we "owe" VW a dime beyond the limits of the rules if he can't earn it. VW will get his number retired in Foxobo regardless. He's a great player. Free agency should have washed away the pablum and naive mindset of fans a long time ago.

Kimimar0 said:

Thank **** for that, I love Vince Wilfork. Legend.

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Agreed. Vince is one of my all time favorite Pats. It's not all about laundry. Been following the Pats since the days of Houston Antwine, who with Seymour are the only DT's comparable to Vince in Pats history. And without a doubt, Vince + Bianca is the best couple in Pats history. I really hope he realizes his dream as retiring as a Patriot.

TyronePoole said:

We are gearing up to challenge the Broncos. We need a pass rush. Where is that coming from exactly? This isn't 1985, the "he occupies 2 blockers" nonsense is not how it works these days. Look at teams that are successful against the pass, they don't utilize a big fat run stopper.

Yeah turn this into me rooting against Vince though and you being a proud homer, that's a pretty easy/lazy message board fallback.

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Guess you missed the fact that the Pats had more sacks this year than any other year under Belichick's tenure. And that was WITHOUT Wilfork and Kelly in the middle for most of the year. The Pass rush will come from the 2 DEs and 3 LBs the Pats put on the field. And it will be helped by what should be a significant upgrade at the Corners with Revis and Browner.

Now, as for your other idiotic statement. The teams that were successful against the pass didn't use a big run stopper? Guess you can't be talking about Seattle (Red Bryant) or San Fran (Glenn Dorsey), Baltimore (Haloti Ngata). Or New Orleans (Bunkley/Jenkins), Buffalo (Williams), Cincinnati (Atkins, Thompson, Peko), Cleveland (Phil Taylor). But, yeah, you know what you're talking about..

TyronePoole said:

We are gearing up to challenge the Broncos. We need a pass rush. Where is that coming from exactly? This isn't 1985, the "he occupies 2 blockers" nonsense is not how it works these days. Look at teams that are successful against the pass, they don't utilize a big fat run stopper.

Yeah turn this into me rooting against Vince though and you being a proud homer, that's a pretty easy/lazy message board fallback.

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:bricks:

Stopping the run = bad thing apparently. I guarantee you the players happiest about this are Jerod Mayo, Dont'a Hightower, and Jamie Collins. Now they will be able to run to the ball carrier without OL blocking them, which was what happened all the time last year without Vince.