Hats off to Poodle Pete!

Ha ha. I'm sure he doesn't care what i call him as long as i call him the World Champ.

Anyway, real nice article today where he's got nothing but good to say about Browner.

This part caught my eye though. Press corner, what's a press corner? This guy has trouble playing safety. Little did we know...

Carroll smiled when a link was made between Browner’s style of play compared to one of his first-round draft choices with the Patriots (1997-1999), bigger defensive back Tebucky Jones.

“All you guys were wondering, what the heck were we thinking? Nobody understood it at the time,” he said. “I wanted to see if we could make him a great corner. We didn’t have enough time. I wasn’t there very long.”

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Pete Carroll talks Brandon Browner - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Thank you for the thread topic! Not enough attention is paid to past seasons of our beloved New England Patriots. These days, it seems that almost everyone who's a Patriots fan jumped on board sometime during the last 13 years.
This team DOES have a history that extends further back to BEFORE Mo Lewis hit Drew Bledsoe, you know.

Well, looks like you do actually know. As for the vast majority of current Patriots fans, I'd be less inclined to think so. Hey, I actually liked being a Patriots fan in the late 90's during Pete's regime. They'd just been to The Dance with Parcells and that big lovable lummox Drew was still slinging it at Foxboro Stadium.
All in all, not a bad deal when compared to the earlier part of the decade. Yep, the pre-Kraft era when coaching legends like Macphereson & Rust roamed the sidelines on chilly Fall Sundays when the colorful foliage was a bigger attraction than what was actually transpiring INSIDE the stadium.

And before then, the previous seasons were when...

Oh, I'll stop myself there, but you get the idea. Yes, a lot of memorable years enjoyed (or not so much actual enjoyment, but requisite viewing nonetheless. It's our team, by God) from BEFORE Belichick & Brady took the helm and steered this team to Football greatness.

I loved my Patriots no matter what. Will THESE newer fans feel the same & remain after the dynamic duo heads to Canton?

From a (Patriots) historical perspective Pete Carroll is in a no-win situation. Caroll arrived in Foxboro after Bill Parcells and before Bill Belichick, so he is compared to those two - whereas Parcells is compared to his predecessors (**** MacPherson, Rod Rust) and Belichick is compared to other coaches with at least three Super Bowl wins (Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, Chuck Noll).

I'm not saying Carroll deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Belichick or Parcells - his New England teams did after all win fewer games than the prior year for each of his three seasons as head coach with the Patriots - but eventually he did find success.

Carroll was head coach of the NE Patriots who brought his team onto the field in the 11th game of his second season after halftime...and proceeded to watch THREE consecutive 12 men on the field penalties assessed to his squad on the fiurst possession of the half.

I was THERE. I saw it. I will NEVER forget it. Pete the Cleaner..."we just gotta clean some things up...clean some things up"...

Congrats on his Super Bowl....a decade and a half later. Looks like he solved some of those pesky "cleaning" problems. He sucked when he was here. Period.

Carroll smiled when a link was made between Browner’s style of play compared to one of his first-round draft choices with the Patriots (1997-1999), bigger defensive back Tebucky Jones.

“All you guys were wondering, what the heck were we thinking? Nobody understood it at the time,” he said. “I wanted to see if we could make him a great corner. We didn’t have enough time. I wasn’t there very long.

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Heh. Quite different responses. Like Belichick in Cleveland, Pete had a bad experience partly his own fault, partly a situation he was stuck with.

His style and the lack of control of a guy who needed to install his own defense, left him looking like a fool and the team he led, look aimless.

Glad it happened that way, because it led us to the perfect coach for the area.

Ironically, though, the team he left is now trying to adopt some of his unique defensive style that failed here. West coast guy, with a unique style = SB champ. Tebucky Jones? I somehow doubt he would have been Richard Sherman, though.

Joker said:

He sucked when he was here. Period.

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Look at the drafts he was given by Grier. 1997 was an all time worst draft, imo.

Read about how Grier undermined his authority by giving players *cough* Terry Glenn *cough* someone they could go to to get around calls Carroll made.

I'm glad we got rid of him for Belichick but there's no question he would have had more success here if he wasn't saddled with Grier.

RayClay said:

Heh. Quite different responses. Like Belichick in Cleveland, Pete had a bad experience partly his own fault, partly a situation he was stuck with.

His style and the lack of control of a guy who needed to install his own defense, left him looking like a fool and the team he led, look aimless.

Glad it happened that way, because it led us to the perfect coach for the area.

Ironically, though, the team he left is now trying to adopt some of his unique defensive style that failed here. West coast guy, with a unique style = SB champ. Tebucky Jones? I somehow doubt he would have been Richard Sherman, though.

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Plus the NFL was just a different game when he was here. How many 6'4"+ receivers with enough speed to be a threat, the physicality to box guys out, and threatening speed, leaping ability, and hands were in the NFL back then? At WR or TE? Back then they were rare, and now probably half the teams in the NFL have one guy who at least somewhat fits that profile. I think the NFL has evolved in a direction that was very beneficial for Pete's philosophy re: personnel and formations.

Luckily for us, Belichick is as good as anyone at identifying what works best and simply doing it, rather than being dogmatically trapped in one specific scheme/philosophy. Which is why we're seeing him move philosophically closer to Carroll than he's probably ever been in the past.

BradyFTW! said:

Plus the NFL was just a different game when he was here. How many 6'4"+ receivers with enough speed to be a threat, the physicality to box guys out, and threatening speed, leaping ability, and hands were in the NFL back then? At WR or TE? Back then they were rare, and now probably half the teams in the NFL have one guy who at least somewhat fits that profile. I think the NFL has evolved in a direction that was very beneficial for Pete's philosophy re: personnel and formations.

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Very true, but there were a lot of tall receivers, but smaller cornerbacks were more successful than tall ones in the schemes back then.

Luckily for us, Belichick is as good as anyone at identifying what works best and simply doing it, rather than being dogmatically trapped in one specific scheme/philosophy. Which is why we're seeing him move philosophically closer to Carroll than he's probably ever been in the past.

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He's gonna steal just like everyone steals from him.

Grier? You don't think I remember Booby? The 29 out of 31 draft pick misses? Sedrick Shaw/Chris Canty???

I try to keep those memories buried deep in my subconscious ...Carroll had ZERO backing him up, agreed. He also had a poor team building strategy then. Like I said, he's come a long way since then and I give him props. That STILL does not change who he was while here..a failure.

Joker said:

Grier? You don't think I remember Booby? The 29 out of 31 draft pick misses? Sedrick Shaw/Chris Canty???

I try to keep those memories buried deep in my subconscious ...Carroll had ZERO backing him up, agreed. He also had a poor team building strategy then. Like I said, he's come a long way since then and I give him props. That STILL does not change who he was while here..a failure.

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The only way to be successful is for a smart determined organization to be pulling together.

There are lots of ways to fall apart and the Carroll years had failure of owner, GM and coach. Once that ball starts rolling down hill, it's hard to separate that.

Joker said:

THREE consecutive 12 men on the field penalties assessed to his squad on the fiurst possession of the half.

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Holy crap, I've never heard that before! How is that freaken' even possible. You figure someone is at least counting after the second time.

scout said:

Holy crap, I've never heard that before! How is that freaken' even possible. You figure someone is at least counting after the second time.

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Scout, I was AT that game. I had a couple of web sites at that time and was a member of the Unofficial Patriots dot com message board (as well as the fledgling "Ian Logue's Patsfans"). I remember leaving that game with the whole tailgate crew we had going on back then. To a person there was nothing but disgust and disbelief. The entire halftime to map their first possession and they came out and did that. Ridiculous. THAT was the day he lost us hard cores...the 3rd season was just an all around Chosin Death March.

PC will be the first to tell you that he had a lot to learn with his early stint in the NFL. He claimed to start over and promised himself that if his name was going to be the one tied to failure, that he was going to fail his way. That settling for a job would never happen again and that he would not take one unless he had control.

I do not put Carroll in the same class as BB and Parcells, who I have the highest admiration for, yet....

If PC can even sustain half the success that BB has brought I will be impressed. Heh... BB at the meetings and the "Bake Sale" comment. That was EPIC.

RayClay said:

The only way to be successful is for a smart determined organization to be pulling together.

There are lots of ways to fall apart and the Carroll years had failure of owner, GM and coach. Once that ball starts rolling down hill, it's hard to separate that.

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Yes, people forget that Kraft was more of Snyder-type "hands on" owner back then. I think he was timing Tebucky Jones with a stopwatch when the Patriots had Jones in on a pre-draft visit to Foxboro.

RayClay said:

Heh. Quite different responses. Like Belichick in Cleveland, Pete had a bad experience partly his own fault, partly a situation he was stuck with.

His style and the lack of control of a guy who needed to install his own defense, left him looking like a fool and the team he led, look aimless.

Glad it happened that way, because it led us to the perfect coach for the area.

Ironically, though, the team he left is now trying to adopt some of his unique defensive style that failed here. West coast guy, with a unique style = SB champ. Tebucky Jones? I somehow doubt he would have been Richard Sherman, though.

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Its not Sherman that T Buck being compared to, its Browner. And I see that comparison.

And another thing to remember...T Buck flourished here when BB moved him to safety!

When Pete was with the Pats its was classic "wrong time, wrong place, wrong methods"... this organization was still in the recovery phase of complete chaos, about step 3...

He went to USC and learned how to cheat and manipulate the the college system, which was his finishing school on how to compete in the NFL....

NormZauchin said:

Yes, people forget that Kraft was more of Snyder-type "hands on" owner back then. I think he was timing Tebucky Jones with a stopwatch when the Patriots had Jones in on a pre-draft visit to Foxboro.

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oh my ******* god.

This is not even remotely accurate. It was a stupid characterization of Kraft by Shaugnessey not an actual report. It was hyperbole because the story du jour post Parcells was that Kraft was a meddling owner. In reality we've all seen that's patently not the case and that Parcells loves to take jobs and then leave the teams in a lurch cause that's what he does.

I feel so much rage over people believing that story to this day when it was nothing but more of the same hit piece bull**** we see from the washed up Boston media stalwarts like Borges and the curly haired boyfriend for decades as they try desperately to avoid the obsolescence that the rise of internet reporting starting bringing down on their heads 20 years ago.

AzorianPats said:

Its not Sherman that T Buck being compared to, its Browner. And I see that comparison.

And another thing to remember...T Buck flourished here when BB moved him to safety!

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Tebucky was a safety in college. He wasn't going to play corner in Belichick's system. I wouldn't say he flourished, exactly, though he was a physical specimen, in strength and speed. He specialized in running into his own players and he was traded away in his prime.

Carroll was talking about the position of "press" corner, which applied to either Sherman or Browner.

fnordcircle said:

oh my ******* god.

This is not even remotely accurate. It was a stupid characterization of Kraft by Shaugnessey not an actual report. It was hyperbole because the story du jour post Parcells was that Kraft was a meddling owner. In reality we've all seen that's patently not the case and that Parcells loves to take jobs and then leave the teams in a lurch cause that's what he does.

I feel so much rage over people believing that story to this day when it was nothing but more of the same hit piece bull**** we see from the washed up Boston media stalwarts like Borges and the curly haired boyfriend for decades as they try desperately to avoid the obsolescence that the rise of internet reporting starting bringing down on their heads 20 years ago.

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Yeah. Didn't know there was a story, but Snyder/Jerry Jones, he wasn't. He got burned by Parcells, who is quite an Ahole, besides his good qualities, which include the ability to run a football operation, at least until he gets sick of it.

Kraft has the right to find his guy, but in the absence of that, he promoted an incompetent yes man and indulged his "inner fan" running the stop watch and overpaying his favorites.

To his credit, he identified BB early, I believe, but the situation wasn't right and he wasn't just going to hand over control to just anyone.

All worked out for the best. Growing pains.

DarrylS said:

When Pete was with the Pats its was classic "wrong time, wrong place, wrong methods"... this organization was still in the recovery phase of complete chaos, about step 3...

He went to USC and learned how to cheat and manipulate the the college system, which was his finishing school on how to compete in the NFL....

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I don't think he did anything more unethical than any other winning college coach. The bottom line is he is one of a few coaches who won championships at college and pro level. On his resume, that makes up for any dismal performance with the Patriots. I like the guy (for not really knowing him), but would not want him back here regardless if BB had retired.