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Pats and Wilfork close to a deal for an extension?


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What reason did you have to not think Ocho could do well here? He had a solid season the year before....Haynesworth really didn't hurt them they just cut him when he stopped trying. They gave up like a 6th round pick whoop dee doo.

You are comparing two players who never played in our system that is so different from Wilfork a player who has been the face of our defense for over half a decade. In addition, Wilfork had arguably the best season of his career in 2012, was an All-Pro for the first time in his career, which is very different from a solid season like the one Chad Johnson had.
 
You are comparing two players who never played in our system that is so different from Wilfork a player who has been the face of our defense for over half a decade. In addition, Wilfork had arguably the best season of his career in 2012, was an All-Pro for the first time in his career, which is very different from a solid season like the one Chad Johnson had.

I didn't say anything about Wilfork.
 
The most Haynesworth did to help the team was getting cut. That sent a message to the team about giving effort on every play, and playing as a unit. The 2011 squad came together after BB sent that message.

There was every reason to think that Ochocinco couldn't fit with the Pats. He had made a career of freelancing routes, and was a poor fit for the Pats complex, precision offense which requires disciplined route running and close rapport between the QB and WRs.

Those were wasted trades that cost us cap space, draft picks, and the opportunity to address those positions elsewhere. They weren't catastrophic mistakes, but they had a cost.

Cousin Mayo,
I 8useually agree with you more than not. You are fair to me in my threads and responses, but I think Froob is correct with his assertion. If anything, BB underestimated the fact that Haynesworth made his salary for life and football wasn't important anymore. Snyder spoiled the stew for that man. If you had it to do all over again and you had a player like Haynesworth who could come in and dominate a game by himself, I would still take a bite of that apple. There are few players who could do so. Perhaps a Reggie White was an example.

Think of it this way. A sixth round Draft pick by NFL average is less than a 17% of a chance to make a Team. In your order of logic, Drafting a player is the same thing. A Draft pick has to be touted and evaluated by what he has done in the past. Not by what he could possibly do as a Pro. The failure rate of a sixth rounder is far higher than a Haynesworth should have been . He would not have been taken if he did not B.S. Bill about his desire to succeed and his love for the game.

In essence Haynesworth was the safer choice than any sixth round pick (O.K. Brady). It was attitude and a loss of hunger to expand his financial worth that were the elements that did not quantify his make up. He did not need to make the money. He was set for life.

The sorrowful part is he should have made the better effort for his own self esteem, BB gave him a God Blessed opportunity to redeem himself, and he chose not to. Worth a sixth rounder for that talent? Yes. But.........You can't read the heart.

I agree with you on Chad. I think BB loved the kid on a personal level. How could he not survive in our system? I think Chad is not a Mensa student. But, perhaps if BB would have allowed him to free lance more and play the game that made him successful, the end result would have been better. That is just not the Patriots style. TB is not used to trying to find out where Chad winds up, but rather that spot where he should have been. It was not all Chad's fault. The Patriots and BB have a way to success. Ocho Cinco was successful because he ad-libed. BB tried to jam a square peg into a round hole.

Moss could ad-lib but he knew where he was supposed to be first. Chad was thinking ad-lib on his route release. Moss was a very smart football player. Chad did not lack for effort here, It was teaching an "older" of new tricks. He was very hurt that this did not work. I think he loved it here. He was successful in his own methods. He did have the love for the game. Perhaps BB should have let him play his game for a few meaningful snaps to see what would happen.

Worth a fitth rounder? Without question.

DW Toys
 
A study I saw claims that over 30% of the players with an injury like this never play again.

So, is there anyone that thinks Wilfork will earn $7.58M on the field this year? I can't imagine any seasoned fans that believe he'll be worth that - an aging NT who didn't play nearly as well in 2013 as he had the prior 5 seasons - coming back off a very possible career killing injury?

I'm seriously not even sure he's worth $1M this year, his medicals are going to have to come through or he is before much more time goes by, or there is no way to know, and for the Pats to keep sitting around if they actually have a use for the money is not like them.

Now, does anyone think he'll play for $6.58M less in 2014? I don't. What will he play for (oops sign for) if we renegotiate? Who knows, it may be he won't play ball.

Besides him not taking a cut and the risk he'll never play again or play poorly, I think BB has decided to cut him already, just waiting for when they need the money.

Nothing personal Vince, just business.
 
A study I saw claims that over 30% of the players with an injury like this never play again.

So, is there anyone that thinks Wilfork will earn $7.58M on the field this year? I can't imagine any seasoned fans that believe he'll be worth that - an aging NT who didn't play nearly as well in 2013 as he had the prior 5 seasons - coming back off a very possible career killing injury?

I'm seriously not even sure he's worth $1M this year, his medicals are going to have to come through or he is before much more time goes by, or there is no way to know, and for the Pats to keep sitting around if they actually have a use for the money is not like them.

Now, does anyone think he'll play for $6.58M less in 2014? I don't. What will he play for (oops sign for) if we renegotiate? Who knows, it may be he won't play ball.

Besides him not taking a cut and the risk he'll never play again or play poorly, I think BB has decided to cut him already, just waiting for when they need the money.

Nothing personal Vince, just business.

I was wondering if a 2 yr extension wouldn't be appropriate for something in the 3.5 or so range. That would also allow us to convert his money this year and spread it out over the next 2 yrs to get the cap hit lessened. Win/win.

Of course, who knows if either one of the team or Wilfork would see 3.5m for 2015 and 2016 as appropriate or acceptable? That's obviously the most important factor. At the moment, I'm wondering if Vince isn't overvaluing himself a bit, seeing as how he's been making top dollar and feels that "all" he had was an injury--so in his mind, not much has changed?
 
I was wondering if a 2 yr extension wouldn't be appropriate for something in the 3.5 or so range. That would also allow us to convert his money this year and spread it out over the next 2 yrs to get the cap hit lessened. Win/win.

That's sort of what I've been thinking. An extension that totals up to 3 years at $12 million or so. Convert some of this year's salary into signing bonus, so Vince gets a little something if it ends up being his last season. If he can play, it brings the salary more in line with a valued part-time player for a few years.

If Vince digs his heels in, that's OK, too. Save the $7.5 million in cap space and move on.
 
A study I saw claims that over 30% of the players with an injury like this never play again.

So, is there anyone that thinks Wilfork will earn $7.58M on the field this year? I can't imagine any seasoned fans that believe he'll be worth that - an aging NT who didn't play nearly as well in 2013 as he had the prior 5 seasons - coming back off a very possible career killing injury?

I'm seriously not even sure he's worth $1M this year, his medicals are going to have to come through or he is before much more time goes by, or there is no way to know, and for the Pats to keep sitting around if they actually have a use for the money is not like them.

Now, does anyone think he'll play for $6.58M less in 2014? I don't. What will he play for (oops sign for) if we renegotiate? Who knows, it may be he won't play ball.

Besides him not taking a cut and the risk he'll never play again or play poorly, I think BB has decided to cut him already, just waiting for when they need the money.

Nothing personal Vince, just business.

I don't completely dismiss the 30% stat but it isn't black and white. Not every player that has that type of injury is an all pro. The majority of careers are very short and end unceremoniously. Look at TJ Moe. You can make an argument that he never plays a regular season game in the NFL but that could have also been true if he had never gotten injured.

Wilfork definitely will need to reduce his cap number to remain on the team but I do feel he still has value.
 
I don't completely dismiss the 30% stat but it isn't black and white. Not every player that has that type of injury is an all pro. The majority of careers are very short and end unceremoniously. Look at TJ Moe. You can make an argument that he never plays a regular season game in the NFL but that could have also been true if he had never gotten injured.

Wilfork definitely will need to reduce his cap number to remain on the team but I do feel he still has value.


I agree, people hear "achilles" and think it's the end and given his weight and that he's in his early 30's most just want to move on, but the truth is that no one has any idea how serious the tear was and what his chances of a full recovery are. The Patriots have all of the information and they have a much better idea of whether or not he can return to form and they are going to base their offers on that information and the information regarding his rehab and recovery. Wilfork is going to have to restructure to stay in New England and i think the structure mgteich posted earlier was probably the closest to what both sides could agree to, a 3 year deal for 15 with around 8 guaranteed. I doubt they go higher than that and i don't think he would go lower, in fact he may not even be willing to go that low but if he didn't i think it would be a mistake on his part as i don't see anyone guaranteeing more than that.

I hope they get it done, he's a HOF caliber player who could still be a significant contributor to another Super Bowl run if he can get himself back to form. I'm not counting him out.
 
I don't completely dismiss the 30% stat but it isn't black and white. Not every player that has that type of injury is an all pro. The majority of careers are very short and end unceremoniously. Look at TJ Moe. You can make an argument that he never plays a regular season game in the NFL but that could have also been true if he had never gotten injured.

Wilfork definitely will need to reduce his cap number to remain on the team but I do feel he still has value.

Even beyond that, the procedures for repair are improving dramatically - several players (Grimes, Demarius Thomas) have come back recently and played their highest level of football.
 
I think VW is the primary impediment to the deals being discussed. He doesn't want to be cut, but even more he doesn't want to give in.

I'm not even sure he could pass a medical test at the moment, so no team is going to trade for him, or sign him unless the money is not guaranteed.

The problem from the Pats side is that dealing Mallett seems like a pipe dream, and the draft capital in hand doesn't seem like its enough to fill the remaining holes. If VW can't be proven to be a good risk to play at a level of even half of his $7.58M on the cap OR he refuses to come down to a fairly cheap new deal, BB has to pull the plug so we can pick up some decent remaining FA's and camp cuts to fill in the roster.

Picking up say: starting level C and rotational pieces at DE, OG or OT in FA makes it so the draft can focus more on DT, SS, TE positions.
 
I don't have confidence that Vince will lower his price enough for the Pats to accept it, and he really isn't worth all that much now.

I've already resigned myself to Big Vince being gone. If he comes back I'll be happy, but I'm preparing for the worst.
 
Wilfork has begun rehabbing in the pool, and he expects to be ready for camp.


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https://twitter.com/sportspickle/status/250042577833844737

I do think the title of this thread should be changed to Wilfork and the Patriots WEEKS away from an extension because it has been a while.
 
The Blitz with Jeff Howe & Karen Guregian | Boston Herald

Following the initial discussion between the Patriots and Vince Wilfork over altering his contract, the nose tackle not only asked for his release, but also made a stop in the locker room to grab his belongings before walking out of Gillette Stadium.

According to two sources, an angry Wilfork ripped his name plate off his locker stall, and cleaned out his locker.

Well, that sounds bad.
 
So I'm guessing that happened before he asked for his release.
 
next!......
 
Well, that sounds bad.

Karen Guregian is a beat writer she reports rumors. Unless they have a picture of the nameplate missing, I am not buying it. Guregian is a WEEI pawn, she got sucked into the spygate drama and has written on several occasions that Brady is not as focused since his supermodel wife and kids came around.
 
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