Pats and Wilfork close to a deal for an extension?

part-timer said:

My point to the poster I replied to was that there are still excellent options out there....Not just JAGs....

As to your point starting center is the worst need....We got killed on the A gap last year with Wendell and Connolly.....Making an offer is just good business....But the timing is not right yet.....1 Mack has not signed the transition tag.....2 The tag may still be withdrawn......and 3 he may still be a FA if the team withdraws the Tag and releases him rather than pay the 10 mill....These are details that we are not privy to and will take some time to play out...

Think about it..... no starting center....not one center brought in for a try out(and there have been a few good ones in FA)....Something must be brewing....

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I definitely agree that Center is a huge need for us. But unfortunately other than Mack I don't know of any other notable ones available. And I can't see BB overpaying Mack (or anyone) just because of limited supply.

mayoclinic said:

Obviously, which is why the Pats appear to be sitting tight for now. I used the term 'if you absolutely need the cap space'. I think it would have been one thing to cut Wilfork before FA started in order to make a move on someone like Lamarr Houston or Linval Joseph, but to do it now is probably not necessary. So you sit tight. But again, I would NOT under ANY circumstances give Wilfork more money without knowing to what degree he will be able to come back effectively.

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The thing is....

They're not really going to know it's solid until they see him play under 100% full-out game conditions. So, using your rubric, they would have to keep everything status quo until after week one, unless the answer is clearly in the negative or they get a monster (who shows it from the very beginning) in the draft. Like I said, your way is just as complicated. There's no simple solution here.

Deus Irae said:

The thing is....

They're not really going to know it's solid until they see him play under 100% full-out game conditions. So, using your rubric, they're going to keep everything status quo until after week one, unless the answer is clearly in the negative.

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That may be true as far as 100% certainty, but I think they will have a better idea before then. Minicamp/OTAs is in 2-3 months. One would hope by then they would have an idea of Wilfork's overall mobility and physical condition. He won't be doing contact work, but he can do sled drills and activities which would allow them to assess how well he can push off. And training camp will involve enough contact to get a pretty good idea.

I would think that if Wilfork's out of shape and has obvious trouble moving and pushing off in a few months, it's a huge warning sign.

I doubt there's a risk-free resolution to this, but right now we don't have any information, and it's not clear that the team has much more. If they're up against the cap to the point where they have to make a decision one way or another before then, it's probably a crapshoot which way to go.

ATippett56 said:

Not only have the New England Patriots not placed an offer sheet for Alex Mack, the New England Patriots have not invited Alex Mack for a visit.

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supafly said:

Not sure what anyone's surprised about a lack of interest in Mack at that kind of money.



We're already paying Mankins, Vollmer, and have Solder on deck for big payouts. On top of that, Connelly is seriously overpaid as well. You can only allocate so much money for one position, and a guy like Mack is obviously going to command a ton of it.

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Not only what SF said but the Browns have a ton of cap space and will likely match any realistic offer made. The Patriots would likely be tying up money for seven days for not.

I posted this in another thread but Florio gave an interesting plan to how to ensure Mack hits UFA next season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/18/alex-mack-still-getting-no-interest/

Peachhead said:

I definitely agree that Center is a huge need for us. But unfortunately other than Mack I don't know of any other notable ones available. And I can't see BB overpaying Mack (or anyone) just because of limited supply.

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I project all four of the top centers in the draft to be better NFL centers than BDLP. So I agree unless you could find a way to land Mack you would be better off taking one of them.

The other thing is the Patriots maybe sitting tight, if the Browns can not agree to a long term deal and Mack refuses to sign the transition tag the could remove the tag thinking the market would be poor now and then the Patriots can swoop in. The reason I say that is Haden and Cameron are UFAs next season so if the Browns cannot get a long term deal done with him he is likely gone in 2015 and seeing how they are rebuilding keeping him for one season is probably a waster of time and cap money. Lombardi would offer some inside information I would think.

Peachhead said:

I definitely agree that Center is a huge need for us. But unfortunately other than Mack I don't know of any other notable ones available. And I can't see BB overpaying Mack (or anyone) just because of limited supply.

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I agree; Bill should've signed Shelly Smith & Ted Larsen for the very reasonable sums
for which they signed with their new teams.

Trade out of 29, take XSF and ASJ with first few picks, move Connolly to center as a stop gap. Draft a mid-late round center who has starter potential.

XSF looks like he can be a Mankins clone for the next 6-10 years.

mayoclinic said:

...I doubt there's a risk-free resolution to this...

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That's what it comes down to. Given what we know, "reasonable" has all sorts of options here.

Cutting him - **** move, but reasonable

Extending him without sufficient knowledge - Appropriately 'loyal/classy' move for a top player, but risky. Reasonable option

Status quo - Nothing gained, but nothing lost. Reasonable, unless feelings are too hurt for this to be an option, or another Revis-like situation drops into their laps.

I haven't done the research on just how helpful an incentive contract would be as an extension in this case, so I can't say if that's a reasonable option.

captain stone said:

I agree; Bill should've signed Shelly Smith & Ted Larsen for the very reasonable sums
for which they signed with their new teams.

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They both suck

I'd rather have those 2 than Connolly at RG and Wendy anywhere.

Deus Irae said:

The thing is....

They're not really going to know it's solid until they see him play under 100% full-out game conditions. So, using your rubric, they would have to keep everything status quo until after week one, unless the answer is clearly in the negative or they get a monster (who shows it from the very beginning) in the draft. Like I said, your way is just as complicated. There's no simple solution here.

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Actually there is a lot they can do to help determine where Vince is health-wise AND athletically. There are lots of drills and exercises they can do to find out if he can still play without having to actually get on the field in a regular season game.

I'm sure the Pats have all of Vince's strength, flexibility, and quickness metrics from every season. It won't be a mystery to see if he's slipped, assuming he's healthy enough to participate in the drills.

While you may be right that this is a complicated situation. But that's only because of Vince's long and fruitful connection with the ownership, team and fans. As a simple football decision, I think its pretty simple.

You have an older player, who seemed to have visibly slipped in the few games he played before he was hurt. He is recovering from an injury that few players return from at the same level of play. He also carries the 3rd highest cap number on the team.....and you need cap space. C'mon DI, at this point in time there hasn't been a SINGLE report of what Vince's condition is, nor any speculation about when he will be able to participate in a practice.

Vince is a rarity in that after he got paid top dollar, he earned those dollars....until last season. As a long time Pats fan, I really, really, want Vince to stay. However, as a long time Pats fan, I'll be damned if I'm going to be held emotionally hostage while Vince has a hissy fit because reality has hit home.

The team not only needs to create some significant cap room before the draft, it is highly unlikely that Vince will have the ability to play to the level that would warrant him having an $11MM cap number....or even half that.

Right now Vince wants everyone to think that he's the injured party here, when he's clearly not. He's the one who is holding up the show here. When is Vince going to tell us when he'll be ready to play. At this point I'd accept an "indication" of when. In fact, as this drags on, this whole issue becomes less and less complicated.

captain stone said:

I agree; Bill should've signed Shelly Smith & Ted Larsen for the very reasonable sums
for which they signed with their new teams.

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Are you suggesting that those players were solutions to the center position? I wouldn't want to rely on either one as a starter (and $2.75MM/year for Smith, who has started 8 games in a 3-year career, doesn't strike me as much of a bargain). "They're better than Wendell" doesn't seem relevant at the moment, as the Patriots haven't signed him either.

IMO there was not a single no-strings free agent this year who projected to be Pats' starting center of the future. Draft ho!

patchick said:

Are you suggesting that those players were solutions to the center position? I wouldn't want to rely on either one as a starter (and $2.75MM/year for Smith, who has started 8 games in a 3-year career, doesn't strike me as much of a bargain). "They're better than Wendell" doesn't seem relevant at the moment, as the Patriots haven't signed him either.

IMO there was not a single no-strings free agent this year who projected to be Pats' starting center of the future. Draft ho!

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The Patriots are playing the "Draft ho" thing close to the vest. Only
two pre-draft contacts with offensive linemen thus far. Neither one a center.

Third day straight that I've come to Patsfans and this thread specifically to check on the status of Wilfork.

I guess the sides were not close to a deal as had been reported.

patchick said:

IMO there was not a single no-strings free agent this year who projected to be Pats' starting center of the future. Draft ho!

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Should we draft a center, I anticipate that he most likely will ride the pine for the majority of the coming season if not all of it.

PP2 said:

Should we draft a center, I anticipate that he most likely will ride the pine for the majority of the coming season if not all of it.

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Can't argue, but I see some readier prospects at guard who could move Connolly back to center for the time being.

patchick said:

Can't argue, but I see some readier prospects at guard who could move Connolly back to center for the time being.

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It's much easier to get quality RG play from a rookie than to have them play the pivot. Plus there's still the possibility of Cannon moving to RG. It's possible that the Pats could draft someone like Weston Richburg or Marcus Martin and plug them in immediately at center, but I tend to doubt it.

mayoclinic said:

That may be true as far as 100% certainty, but I think they will have a better idea before then. Minicamp/OTAs is in 2-3 months. One would hope by then they would have an idea of Wilfork's overall mobility and physical condition. He won't be doing contact work, but he can do sled drills and activities which would allow them to assess how well he can push off. And training camp will involve enough contact to get a pretty good idea.

I would think that if Wilfork's out of shape and has obvious trouble moving and pushing off in a few months, it's a huge warning sign.

I doubt there's a risk-free resolution to this, but right now we don't have any information, and it's not clear that the team has much more. If they're up against the cap to the point where they have to make a decision one way or another before then, it's probably a crapshoot which way to go.

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Cousin, I am a VW fan like most of us. But...........as this has become a passing league and the fact that Tommy Kelly is coming back to be a force in the middle, Kelly presents more of an inside rush, he agreed to a cut to play for the Pats, and we all have to admit he out-performed VW the first part of last season before the injury bug to both.Well is $8 million in salary for VW not better served on other positions?

The kids (Jones, Vellano and Siliga) played decent and the arrow is up especially on Siliga. I would suspect the Pats do Draft another D lineman as well. With Armstead(?)and Kelly coming back the rotation might be better than one might think.

I have two thoughts to make this D a little bit better and pump up the rush. A "solid" for VW might be to let him go, not placate him. If he does not want to be here, hope you do well in your future endeavors,Vince.

Here is maybe a solution:

Jared Allen for Vince Wilfork's Salary (+?) and two years. Allen has not signed yet because he wants to start. He is still elite. Ninkovitch is much smaller. He actually would make the perfect 3 down MLB to take Spikes' place. He is rangy, can cover better and can tackle. Leave Mayo outside and let Hightower be your alternate at LB or DE just like he did with the Tide. You have flexibility with Nink like BB used Vrabel. Bruschi made a good living here as an MLB. Nink might have similar characteristics.

Would not a front seven of Allen and Jones at the ends. Kelly and Siligia (?) at DT and Mayon, Ninkovitch and Collins be pretty formidable? Would not the pass rush both inside and out with Hightower and/or Collins blitzing be a tough match up? How about Ninkovitch blitzing from the gaps?

Would I in essence, swap Allen for VW? Absolutely if BB can figure out the best scenario to use his best players as he does. At this time Allen is the better player. He fits the need for added rush. He is not bad against the run. Allen can start for a few years yet which is his big thing. Chandler Jones won't be able to be doubled so that helps him, and you have Hightower and/ or Ninkovitch to slide into the DE position for snaps.

DW Toys

When we took Dan Koppen in the 5th round, wasn't he the starter that season, albeit after a window of opportunity with Woody out a game or 2? Our present lack of quality at OC presents an immediate window of opportunity.

Wotan_the_Wanderer said:

Third day straight that I've come to Patsfans and this thread specifically to check on the status of Wilfork.

I guess the sides were not close to a deal as had been reported.

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Vince is out of country on vacation. I doubt anything will be done before he returns,
.