Belichick Can't Have Much Faith In The Kids

TonyTucker said:

And he was useless in SB46 and didn't play in the last two AFCCG's. The best bet is that he gets hurt early this season, misses the middle, and is back late for the playoffs. Cause he won't last the whole year.

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His injuries were pure bad luck. The PAT and the tackle at the knees (partly dirty, part NFL's fault for changing the rules and hanging out big fines that make players hesitant to hit in the upper area)

TonyTucker said:

And he was useless in SB46 and didn't play in the last two AFCCG's. The best bet is that he gets hurt early this season, misses the middle, and is back late for the playoffs. Cause he won't last the whole year.

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Which backs your 6-8 games claim how, exactly?

TBR said:

Thompkins wouldn't be eligible to be put on the practice squad, right?

Perhaps Bill puts him on IR to keep him here?

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No he is no longer eligible for practice squad. Got his accrued season in 2013.

Slagathor said:

Dobson lacks a swagger most top receivers have. All the good ones have a little bit of ****iness. In Boyce's case, I think he will be a late bloomer. Game seems to be going to fast for him right now.

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... Or is boyce going too fast for the game

To be honest, I don't think any of our young WRs are going to be what we want them to be.

Dobson has the most upside and he will turn out the best of the bunch. He has the best hands, size, speed combination of them all. But as someone else said, he lags that swagger. He appears to be a bit soft...and just doesn't have that IT factor to be a number 1 receiver. I do think he will be a very productive player for us and a very solid #2 receiver for years to come. But that's about it. That's fine though, as long as we have other options.

Thompkins is a real wildcard in my eyes. He didn't impress me a great deal, but he wasn't horrible by any means. He could turn out to be a very solid receiver but I view him as more of a #3 type...a very good 3/low #2 being his ceiling.

Boyce is another wildcard...but I think he's more of a #3/4...maybe even a sot guy. He has the speed for sure....but the guy does not have great hands. He could be used as a weapon (screen passes etc). But he is not a guy that I would really trust making big plays in this offense on a consistent basis.

So it's easy to see why Bill's looking. Dobson is hurt as of now so who knows what his status is going to be. Boyce and Thompkins haven't showed very much, particularly Boyce. Amendola is fragile as they come. Edelman has had ONE good year...and Gronkowski has been injury plagued as well. We've got alot of question marks at receiver. Definitely some potential, especially if all those guys can stay healthy but you can't rely on that. Lafell I think can be a weapon for us. But he's nothing more than a #2.

Brady will have some weapons this year but let's not get it twisted...he doesn't have the big guns. Would love to see us add another potential weapon (Britt?) and without question one of the tight ends in the draft. I really like Amaro and ASJ. But they would have to be grabbed with our first pick. Highly doubt they fall to 62....particularly Amaro.

If we can get another legit Tight End in the event Gronk goes down, as well as adding another potential difference maker at WR....THEN I like what we've got.
A WR crew of Lafell, Amendola, Edelman, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins and one more...

to go with Gronkowski and either Amaro/ASJ should be potent enough. Especially when you consider that we'll have Vereen, a major weapon...and Ridley to carry the ball.

MrNathanDrake said:

Should've waited til Week 12 to bring him back last year. Let him shake the cobwebs off and be ready for the playoffs.

but Nooooooo... Everyone had to make a big deal about why he wasn't playing.

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Yeah, because it's not like the regular season matters or anything.

I mean, what difference does it make having the opportunity to get a 1st round bye, have 2 weeks to rest and prepare, and win ONE game at home to go to the AFC Championship?

We easily could have rested Gronk the entire year, brought him back in December, and then gone on the road to win 4 straight in the SB, right? I mean, that's the high-percentage play that a guy like Belichick would make.

Slagathor said:

Dobson lacks a swagger most top receivers have. All the good ones have a little bit of cokciness. In Boyce's case, I think he will be a late bloomer. Game seems to be going to fast for him right now.

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I agree about Dobson. Something seems a little off. Maybe too shy or something.

I can only hope his 2nd year will be half as good as Alshon Jeffery's was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKc9Jx1cU7o

Dobson needs to put on some muscle

In all seriousness though, I think Dobson and Boyce both have a ton of potential. Both showed flashes of it last year, and Dobson definitely showed some improvement and the makings of a #1 receiver. If Boyce can get a full offseason in with OTAs, Mini-camp, and TC and Dobson can get back for TC I don't see why either can't make a second year jump.

LaFell is pretty iffy to me. I don't like the deal BB gave him because it pretty much guarantees him a spot on the roster. Panthers fans seem to be pretty happy he is gone (having no receivers is better than LaFell?). Edelman, Dobson, and Slater are the only locks for the final roster. Assuming all are healthy I envision the depth chart in TC as:

Dobson (lock)
Edelman (lock)
Amendola
LaFell
Thompkins
Boyce
Slater (lock)
Mark Harrison (potential move to TE?)
Dunn
Orton

Having 10 receivers in camp seems like a lot, so barring a roster move I doubt they add another in the draft. Potentially could bring Kenny Britt in as well. In the end I think Amendola, Boyce, Lafell, Thompkins, Harrison (if he doesn't change positions), Dunn, and Orton will be battling it out for the 3 or 4 remaining receiver spots.

ripatsfan91 said:

... Or is boyce going too fast for the game

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Yeah, you know you've had one helluva season when you're able to haul in 8 catches and your highlight is putting a juke move on CLE DB Buster Skrine.

I have no problem with this analysis.

I guess I wasn't very clear in the original post. My issue is NOT why we have 6 wide receivers plus PS payers, UDFA's, late draft choices and future to be signed JAG's competing. That's all fine.

We have 7 wide receivers signed though 2016 (Thompkins is an RFA in 2016 but that's close enough). I think that Belichick has taken care of business. A week ago, many would have been happy if we just re-signed Edelman.

My question is why Belichick is spending so much effort looking for even more. wide receivers.

Folks say the answer is due diligence. Well, personally, I would prefer due diligence in signing a RB, pass rusher, rotational DE, a linebacker or two, a center, a guard, a TE or two, and/or a DT.

BTW, my understanding is that this drafting in the deepest in the WR position in a decade. A late pick might very well beat out Boyce and Thompkins, or at least be Practice Squad material for a year.

Deus Irae said:

a.) LaFaell and/or Edelman got a lovely Christmas gift

b.) Amendola's gone

c.) The team's going to carry at least 6 real WRs this year

d.) One or more of the kids is going to be S.O.L.



You decide

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Really people are now basing swagger on if a WR will be good or not? Give me a break.

OK, if you think that Edelman and LeFell should be compared to Revis and Browner, then fine. I can't argue with that kind of logic.

Belichick has been trying to find the answer to fixing the secondary since Law and then Harrison left. The signing of Revis and Browner is comparable to the trading for Moss and Welker. Do you REALLY put the 2014 wider receiver effort is that framework?

shmessy said:

Exactly.

And a better question for the OP is this: BB so far has signed only one new WR. Take a look at what he has done in the secondary. Do you think he has no faith in Dennard and Ryan?

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supafly said:

Yeah, because it's not like the regular season matters or anything.

I mean, what difference does it make having the opportunity to get a 1st round bye, have 2 weeks to rest and prepare, and win ONE game at home to go to the AFC Championship?

We easily could have rested Gronk the entire year, brought him back in December, and then gone on the road to win 4 straight in the SB, right? I mean, that's the high-percentage play that a guy like Belichick would make.

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A lot of good the rest did them vs Denver, the game wasn't competitive. They should be able to beat the Chiefs/Colts at home and the Bungles on the road. Them having the one or two seed hasn't helped recently. They've lacked the personnel.

BTW, I get it. We went into free agency with major issues in the secondary, especially with Talib and Edelman as free agents. Belichick has put these units in laser focus and done unbelievably well, and all within a week. And BTW, I'm fine with going into the draft intending to double dip at TE in order to solve THAT huge problem.

Can't we reasonably wonder what's next and why we are hearing about more and more receivers instead of players at other positions?

ripatsfan91 said:

Dobson definitely showed some improvement and the makings of a #1 receiver.

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For who, the Los Angeles "KISS" team?

Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley are salivating at the thought of having a "true" number 1 receiver.

ripatsfan91 said:

LaFell is pretty iffy to me. I don't like the deal BB gave him because it pretty much guarantees him a spot on the roster.

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It would seem as though Belichick felt comfortable enough to give LaFell the kind of pact that would guarantee him the 4th/5th/6th WR spot at worst.

In other words, his analysis was that a 3rd round pick who has improved in all 4 of his NFL seasons could be good enough to beat out the likes of Kenbrell Thompkins and/or Josh Boyce.

This should be viewed as a good thing.

supafly said:

Yeah, you know you've had one helluva season when you're able to haul in 8 catches and your highlight is putting a juke move on CLE DB Buster Skrine.

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you were taking my sarcasm literally

TonyTucker said:

A lot of good the rest did them vs Denver, the game wasn't competitive. They should be able to beat the Chiefs/Colts at home and the Bungles on the road. Them having the one or two seed hasn't helped recently. They've lacked the personnel.

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They've gone to the AFCCG or SB in each of their last 3 seasons.

I think having the first round bye has helped them more often than it hasn't.

Look at their record in heading to the AFCCG/SB under Belichick with a first round bye. The only time they didn't do it was in 2010. Every other time they've taken advantage of it.

The thought of ignoring the regular season and sitting Gronk out until the playoffs is ridiculous, and that's what I was responding to. The regular season is important in many ways; the most obvious in setting your team up for HFA or a first round bye that increases your odds of going to the SB.

ripatsfan91 said:

you were taking my sarcasm literally

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Yeah, I know--but I've seen that .gif being spread around lately like it's something special.

We can hope for one/two of the rookies to progress while still enjoying a winning season with better talent on the field. They can be slowly spread in for 20-25-30 reps per game in certain sets and opportunities. That's really been the formula for rookie WRs under Belichick.

It changed a bit last year due to the Amendola injury, the fact that Hernandez got arrested right before the 4th of July, and the Gronkowski injury which was initially expected to return in time for game #3.

To take it one step further, Belichick failed as a GM/coach by not addressing the WR position with better depth and competition in the likes of Michael Jenkins, LaVelle Hawkins, and Donald Jones last offseason. He's obviously learned from last year and isn't wanting to repeat the failure.

supafly said:

For who, the Los Angeles "KISS" team?

Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley are salivating at the thought of having a "true" number 1 receiver.



It would seem as though Belichick felt comfortable enough to give LaFell the kind of pact that would guarantee him the 4th/5th/6th WR spot at worst.

In other words, his analysis was that a 3rd round pick who has improved in all 4 of his NFL seasons could be good enough to beat out the likes of Kenbrell Thompkins and/or Josh Boyce.

This should be viewed as a good thing.

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1. Dobson had a VERY good season for a rookie receiver. He improved every week until he was injured and showed some real development with Brady. In the Pittsburgh and Miami games, Dobson was regularly making back shoulder catches.

He was the best rookie receiver not named Kennan Allen.

I think the Alshon Jeffrey comparison is a very real one. Both are size/speed guys and had almost identical numbers at the combine and were known for having great hands in college. If Dobson puts in the work, he could very well be a 1,000 yard receiver next season. I am not saying he is gonna be Alshon and catch 90 balls for 1400yds, too many other targets, but I could envision 60 catches for 1100 yards and 6 or 8 TDs.

2. LaFell might have improved, but he is a possession receiver who has struggled with drops. Those do not mix. I like LaFell, but I think Thompkins and Boyce might have a higher ceiling. Is he that much of an upgrade from Thompkins? Thompkins in his rookie year had similar numbers to LaFell in his 4th. Therefore, I am inclined to think the money we used to sign LaFell might have been better off spent elsewhere.

Hypothetically, what happens if in camp LaFell shows up and gets beat out by Amendola, Thompkins, Harrison, and Boyce (Edelman, Slater, and Dobson are locks)? What do you do with LaFell and that contract then?

mgteich said:

IMHO, Edelman, Amendola, LeFell and ONE of the kids stepping up would be plenty to have a better passing offense than in 2013, especially with some help from the TE position.

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Agree.

shmessy said:

Exactly.

And a better question for the OP is this: BB so far has signed only one new WR. Take a look at what he has done in the secondary. Do you think he has no faith in Dennard and Ryan?

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I doubt you were looking for an answer, but I'll give you one anyways: I am pretty dang sure he has faith in Dennard and Ryan.

cstjohn17 said:

I can still see a possibility of Thomkins or Boyce beating out LaFell. The Patriots track record with WRs is not great so judos to them for identifying a weakness and letting competition decide the outcome.

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This is why I hoped Lafell's signing bonus would be very minimal. I, too, could have seen him not cracking the roster. He's probably a lock, with that SB.