Dennard, Ryan and Arrington?

I guess if one of the Wilson's can play a little, we're all set.
I'd still like to add some veteran competition at safety.

Fencer said:

We need to be able to put on the field, at any time, 5 DBs who can play plus 1 who can play a little. (The latter position may be called the AntwanH in honor of a certain forced fumble.)

I would suggest that we therefore need at least 7 DBs on the roster who can play, plus 2 more who can play at least a little.

Revis
Browning
Dennard
Arrington
Ryan

McCourty
Harmon

That's 7 who can play, if we assume reasonable (not even outstanding) 2nd-year growth from the Rutgers rooks.

There isn't yet any great excess of DBs.

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mgteich said:

I guess if one of the Wilson's can play a little, we're all set.
I'd still like to add some veteran competition at safety, as long as that veteran has some fair chance of making the team and being an honest upgrade.

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Fixed your post (hat tip, other thread)

First a disclaimer. I am an Arrington fan, he will never be in the HOF but he is a + Slot cover guy and a ++ St player. He is not good on the outside, we all understand that and I am sure the team would prefer not having to put him there due to injury and lack of depth.

COnsider though a guy who is very versatile can be valuable, even when his cap hit is > two other guys.

Why because even if he is not the best CB or S he plays those positions and also can play on all 4 ST groupings sometimes saving roster spots due to versatility is just as valuable as saving cap space. BB understands the balance even if we do not.

patsfan13 said:

First a disclaimer. I am an Arrington fan, he will never be in the HOF but he is a + Slot cover guy and a ++ St player. He is not good on the outside, we all understand that and I am sure the team would prefer not having to put him there due to injury and lack of depth.

COnsider though a guy who is very versatile can be valuable, even when his cap hit is > two other guys.

Why because even if he is not the best CB or S he plays those positions and also can play on all 4 ST groupings sometimes saving roster spots due to versatility is just as valuable as saving cap space. BB understands the balance even if we do not.

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And those two roles taken together give him quite a few snaps, even if some of them are touchback kickoffs. Punt play snaps are at least as important as regular-down ones, I think.

My opinion is that Browner signing was because of the growing popularity of the tight end position in the NFL. This draft has one of the deepest and most talented tight end groups in memory with players such as –

- Eric Ebron
- Jace Amaro
- Austin Seferian-Jenkins
- Troy Niklas
- C.J. Fiedorowicz
- A.C. Leonard
- Colt Lyerla

Despite what our mock drafts may indicate, the Patriots will not draft all of them, so add them to other top tight ends in the NFL such as –

- Jimmy Graham
- Vernon Davis
- Jason Witten
- Julius Thomas
- Jordan Cameron
- Zach Ertz
- Charles Clay
- Antonio Gates
- Colby Fleener
- Tyler Eifert
- Jermichael Finely

If you look back at this past season, we struggled against the tight end with the exception of the Saints game when Talib covered Graham. In the games that we needed Talib to cover the outside receiver who was also exceptional the tight end had its way with us –

- Julius Thomas 8 receptions, 85 yards
- Colby Fleener 6 receptions, 74 yards
- Tony Gonzalez 12 receptions, 149 yards, 2 touchdowns
- Tyler Eifert 5 receptions, 53 yards
- Jordan Cameron 9 receptions, 121 yards 1 touchdown
- Greg Olsen 5 receptions, 52 yards, 1 touchdown
- Dennis Pitta/Ed ****son 8 receptions, 78 yards

Browner allows us to do what we did with Talib in week 5 every week with the tight end, and Revis will shut down the #1 WR. That leaves Dennard, Ryan, Arrington with help from McCourty to cover all secondary offensive options.

patsfan13 said:

First a disclaimer. I am an Arrington fan, he will never be in the HOF but he is a + Slot cover guy and a ++ St player. He is not good on the outside, we all understand that and I am sure the team would prefer not having to put him there due to injury and lack of depth.

COnsider though a guy who is very versatile can be valuable, even when his cap hit is > two other guys.

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This. He's sacked QBs, recovered onside kicks, and does cover slot receivers very well.

Brady6 said:

Browner allows us to do what we did with Talib in week 5 every week with the tight end, and Revis will shut down the #1 WR. That leaves Dennard, Ryan, Arrington with help from McCourty to cover all secondary offensive options.

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Tertiary. Gronk not like your mistake.

oldrover said:

Arrington is no doubt the weakest of that group. Dude can only cover a slot receiver.

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"Only" slot?

Slot receivers are like rather important in today's NFL.

A really good slot CB is like really valuable.

Why is everyone calling for Arrington's release now? He certainly has his limitations, but so does Dennard and Ryan. Arrington is a beast in the slot and is a solid Special Teams contributor as well. Ryan has shown flashes but now the question will be can he continue his development. Dennard is a physical Cornerback who is pretty decent outside, but he lacks the quickness to keep up with receivers if he played in the slot. He also isn't really #1 Cornerback material as evidenced by last year's AFCCG.

The Patriots have a GOOD problem. They have 5 solid Cornerbacks that can contribute in their own way. Injuries WILL happen and someone will have to step up. Also: What if Browner gets busted? What if Dennard violates probation midseason? A team can NEVER have enough quality Cornerbacks.

If the season started today: Revis and Browner would start outside, with Arrington in the slot. Dennard will fill in for Browner, most likely, while he serves his 4 game suspension, and Logan Ryan can fill in when needed.

Safety is another issue, but as I see it, we don't need to convert Arrington or cut him to solve our problems.

MTM558 said:

Why is everyone calling for Arrington's release now? He certainly has his limitations, but so does Dennard and Ryan. Arrington is a beast in the slot and is a solid Special Teams contributor as well. Ryan has shown flashes but now the question will be can he continue his development. Dennard is a physical Cornerback who is pretty decent outside, but he lacks the quickness to keep up with receivers if he played in the slot. He also isn't really #1 Cornerback material as evidenced by last year's AFCCG.

The Patriots have a GOOD problem. They have 5 solid Cornerbacks that can contribute in their own way. Injuries WILL happen and someone will have to step up. Also: What if Browner gets busted? What if Dennard violates probation midseason? A team can NEVER have enough quality Cornerbacks.

If the season started today: Revis and Browner would start outside, with Arrington in the slot. Dennard will fill in for Browner, most likely, while he serves his 4 game suspension, and Logan Ryan can fill in when needed.

Safety is another issue, but as I see it, we don't need to convert Arrington or cut him to solve our problems.

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1.) Let's not jump the gun on Ryan.

2.) If the season started today, the Patriots would be shorthanded. Dennard would be in the pokey and Browner would be serving his suspension.

3.) When the season does actually start, it will likely be Dennard and Revis on the outside, with Arrington as the nickel and Ryan on the bench.

4.) When/if Browner replaces Dennard on the outside, it's certainly possible that Dennard will beat out Arrington (and Ryan) for that nickel position.

BradyFTW! said:

What I'm most intrigued to see is how the Pats will defend Megatron. Do you put Browner on him because the size matchup works? Or do you acknowledge that even Browner can't reliably jam him at the LOS and put Revis on him?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they put Tate on Revis island and then dedicate pretty much all of their other resources (starting with Browner and McCourty) to holding Megatron in check.

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Revis gets Megatron.
And shuts him down.

Browner is not a safety. He's a press corner. I think Ryan may play some safety.

At least one of Browner or Arrington seems likely to cross-train at safety. I think there's a small but non-zero chance he'll move there immediately, and a bigger chance he'll pull a McCourty and wind up making a permanent move to the position later on as injuries dictate.

That said -- there's an excellent chance Revis will be gone after a year. Then our collection of CBs won't look so excessive after all.

RayClay said:

Browner is not a safety. He's a press corner. I think Ryan may play some safety.

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Yes, Logan Ryan is the one I could see converting to safety. He's an excellent tackler, he reads the QB very well, and he has good hands.

Logan Ryan had an excellent rookie season, I would be worried about moving him to safety because I am not sure he has the size to play it. He is listed at 5'11 195 so chances are he is a little smaller than that.

That being said he is a terrific tackler, is awesome at jumping routes, and is a straight playmaker.

BTW after the Revis press conference today, I doubt he only stays here one year. Probably tired of switching teams every year and I think he actually wants to be a patriot. My guess is sometime this year, he will sign a 3 year extension in the 36 million ballpark

Marqui said:

Yes, Logan Ryan is the one I could see converting to safety. He's an excellent tackler, he reads the QB very well, and he has good hands.

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I thought so too, so I googled that phrase. turns out Mayock thought he might also.

I don't know who could end up playing safety, but it's good to have the versatility in the secondary backfield.

I actually believe that we're going to draft a safety myself.

I agree that both Revis and the Patriots would be inclined to do a long term deal. Doesn't mean it will happen, but I think both of them, at this time, are leaning towards that goal.

I suspect what the Pats need to see is whether Revis can become the leader of the defense. If they are going to make him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL, they need him to assume the leadership role.

Does anyone doubt that Belichick grabbed Revis at some point during the joint practices with the Bucs and let him know how much he admired his game?

I'm not sure that anyone but Pryor projects to be any better than what we have at corner, who could shift to safety.

In any case, I hope that we don't see a safety in the first three rounds. I'm with others who have a laser focus on the lines, at at TE.

supafly said:

I don't know who could end up playing safety, but it's good to have the versatility in the secondary backfield.

I actually believe that we're going to draft a safety myself.

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mgteich said:

I'm not sure that anyone but Pryor projects to be any better than what we have at corner, who could shift to safety.

In any case, I hope that we don't see a safety in the first three rounds. I'm with others who have a laser focus on the lines, at at TE.

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I wouldn't argue against the trench selections + TE, that's for sure.

I'm wondering if a trade back to accumulate more picks isn't a high possibility this year?

I don't see the OL warranting a 1-2 round selection myself, unless it's an elite tackle (yes, you heard me correctly). I've never been a huge advocate of spending 1st/2nd rounders at the interior positions, although obviously my opinion means nothing.

I'm seeing OL, DL, TE, and S as good possibilities in the first 4 rounds myself.