Revis and Browner > Talib and Wilfork

What do you think?


Talib played great for the first 6 weeks this past season. Then he had nagging injuries and really tapered off. Especially when the cold weather arrived. He went from being dominant, making game-winning plays and shutting down Jimmy Graham, to barely having an impact.

But most importantly, for the second year in a row he left during the most important game of the year. The AFCCCG.

2 years in a row he's left the AFCCCG with soft injuries. Especially this past year. No broken bones, no torn ligaments... He left due to a bruise!!!
He cannot be counted on. He isn't reliable. And that's how he was when playing for a contract. He has that Randy Moss "I play when I wanna play" attitude.

Remember that before Talib came to New England, he was thought to be declining and had discipline issues. BB got the best out of him, like BB does with everyone. Talib was motivated to prove he still had skills, and motivated to get a big contract. But he never has been, and never will be a self-motivated, self-starter. Do you think John Fox will be able to squeeze as much effort out of Talib as Belichick did? I don't think so! Can you imagine how bad he will be now that he's gotten paid?

In his 6 years in the league, Talib has never played an entire season. Sorry folks... but a leopard cannot change its spots.


Revis, on the other hand, is a consummate professional who can be relied upon game after game. Aside from the ACL injury that sidelined him for an entire year, he hasn't missed many games and has completed full 16+ game seasons 5 out of 7 times.

Talib was an elite corner for 6 weeks this past season.... Revis has been an elite corner for 6 seasons. It's a much bigger upgrade than people are giving it credit for. Who knows how Talib will be now that he's been paid. There have always been character concerns with him. We won't have to worry about Revis as long as he's healthy. He takes pride in his skills and brings it every game.

---------------------


Then there's Brandon Browner. The biggest CB in the league. An aggressive, intimidating, physical Corner.

He can match up with the biggest WR or TE in the league, and along with Richard Sherman formed one of the best CB duos in the NFL. Now he can do the same with Darrelle Revis in New England.


There are question marks though. Can he stay out of trouble with the league? Will his play be as good as it once was now that he's been busted for PED's and whatever else it was he got caught for?

However, the risk is worth it and I'm sure the Pats made the contract to work in their favor if he's suspended or outright banned from the league. He is only making about half of what Talib will make (avg of 5mil vs 10mil per year). I know some people will try to say I'm a hypocrite for bashing Talib for missing games, and now Browner will miss the first 4 games... But Browner isn't expected to be the #1 CB, and he isn't being paid like one either.



The duo of Revis and Browner has the potential to shut down elite QB's. You saw what Seattle's DB's did to Manning in the Superbowl, right? I'm sure BB did too and that's why he made these signings.

Wilfork on his BEST day isn't going to stop Peyton Manning, but Revis and Browner possibly could.




Which brings me to Wilfork. It's a passing league. He's a run stopping NT. He offers almost no pass rush at all. There's a reason this type of player is a "dying breed" in the NFL. It's because their impact isn't what it used to be with all the rules favoring passing so much now. His true value to the team was as a 3-4 NT that would occupy multiple blockers.... but the defense doesn't play a 3-4 nearly as much as it used to. The truth is, he just isn't that valuable to us anymore.

He's also coming off a horrible injury, at an age where he was expected to decline anyways.

He still isn't recovered and no one knows if he will even be able to play, or how much he will be able to contribute even if he does return.

I'd be shocked if he's worth 7+ million to any team in the league right now.

Yup. Revis alone is a unique talent.

Even when Talib is on the field and 100% he cannot compare to Revis, not to mention he seems to just as often be in the locker room "not expected to return."

Revis is Randy Moss on the other side of the football. Guy makes spectacular interceptions and knock downs.

In this league, given who our obstacles are, these changes are really easy to be stoked about.

Can't wait to see Browner destroy Welker again

Now 2 years removed from his ACL injury, Revis should be 100% healed.


When healthy and playing man coverage, Revis is a once in a generation, Hall of Fame type of talent. He's a Top 10 player in the league. The very best at his position, without equal. He can shut down the best of the best WR's.

This is a guy who shutdown both Randy Moss and Terrell Owens twice a year.
This is a guy who broke Ocho Cinco's 120 games-with-a-reception streak.

In 2010 he single-handily shutdown Brady-to-Moss, Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson, Marques Colston, Roddy White, Ocho Cinco, Reggie Wayne, and Steve Smith. All in the same year.

None of those guys had more than 35 yards against Revis in 2010. Do you know how many Pro Bowls those WR's have been to combined?


That's how good he is. That's Revis at his very best. Talib has never come close to having that much success. He's good.... but he's not a once in a generation, hall of fame, true shutdown CB like Revis.

Don't forget that at one point in his career (before the ACL injury) people were starting to talk of Revis being the best CB of all time. Now at 28, he still has a chance to make a claim to that if he has another 3 or 4 years at a top level. At his best, Revis is on an entirely different level than Talib has ever been. Talent-wise its a bigger upgrade than people are saying it is, and Revis doesn't come with the issues that Talib does.

I always hated Revis because he was on the Jets during our most heated rivalry years with them. But I always respected his skills because he is the real deal. I can't wait to see him in a Patriots uniform now.


-------------

Browner, IF he can return to Pro Bowl form, is more of an asset than Vince Wilfork in his 30's and coming off an injury.

A big intimidating CB who can stop big WR and Tight Ends is more valuable than a run stopping NT. That's just the way the league is right now.

Wilfork never did much against pass happy teams like the current Broncos. Nor did he ever do much when the Giants were running 2 minute drills and in obvious passing situations at the end of the Superbowl games.

Browner can and will help in those situations.

Its too bad this team never had a great pass rush when Wilfork was in his prime, he would have occupied so many blockers that it would have improved everyone elses game significantly, while Chandler Jones and Ninkovich have showed promise, our Defensive tackles are going to be significantly worse without Wilfork's presence.

While i agree that Revis / Browner is probably an upgrade over Talib and Wilfork, It only moves our potential problems on defense closer to the line of scrimmage.

Rather than not being able to stop the pass, we may soon find ourselves having difficulty stopping the run.

serifyn said:

Its too bad this team never had a great pass rush when Wilfork was in his prime, he would have occupied so many blockers that it would have improved everyone elses game significantly, while Chandler Jones and Ninkovich have showed promise, our Defensive tackles are going to be significantly worse without Wilfork's presence.

Click to expand...

Chris Jones had a decent rookie year and offered a lot more pass rush than Wilfork ever did.

We didn't lose to the Broncos because of the run game. They passed on us at will. Our CB's couldn't stop them.

While i agree that Revis / Browner is probably an upgrade over Talib and Wilfork, It only moves our potential problems on defense closer to the line of scrimmage.

Rather than not being able to stop the pass, we may soon find ourselves having difficulty stopping the run.

Click to expand...

We will survive. It's not like Wilfork could shutdown the run game anyways. Look at our playoff exits from the last 5 years or so. Most of those teams had success passing AND running the ball on us (Jets, Giants, Ravens). At least with Revis and Browner, we should be able to have a lot more success against the pass now.


BTW: just read a pretty cool article

Patriots Sign Darrelle Revis, Still the NFL's Best Cornerback | Bleacher Report

Vince isn't gone yet and until he has he's very much the teams present in my eyes.

serifyn said:

Rather than not being able to stop the pass, we may soon find ourselves having difficulty stopping the run.

Click to expand...

Why do so many posters here have to go all chicken little every offseason?

The Patriots just upgraded themselves to one of the best pass defenses in the league, so now we are going to pretend half the starting roster wasn't injured last year so we can have something else to handwring over. That's annoying. Stop.

Free agency just started. The Patriots still have Wilfork under contract. They have a decent amount of cap room, without cutting him. A lot more if they do. Tommy Kelly will be back. He looked very good on the line before he got hurt.

BB understands he needs to have starters at all positions and guys who can specialize in sub packages. Siliga was a nobody cut from the Texans last offseason. We probably haven't even heard of some of the guys that will contribute to the team this year.

I could see us bringing back Cory Grissom too. I had high hopes for him before his injury, would add solid depth.

serifyn said:

Its too bad this team never had a great pass rush when Wilfork was in his prime, he would have occupied so many blockers that it would have improved everyone elses game significantly, while Chandler Jones and Ninkovich have showed promise, our Defensive tackles are going to be significantly worse without Wilfork's presence.

While i agree that Revis / Browner is probably an upgrade over Talib and Wilfork, It only moves our potential problems on defense closer to the line of scrimmage.

Rather than not being able to stop the pass, we may soon find ourselves having difficulty stopping the run.

Click to expand...

I would much rather have the problem of not being able to stop the run than the pass. Hell, even when the Broncos run 270 yards on the ground in the regular season, not only did it not really hurt the Pats, but it probably helped the Pats get back in the game.

Few teams today have the running offense to beat teams on the ground. Hence why no free agent RB are even getting visits so far this offseason. This is a passing league. It is also why the Pats let Spikes walk and all he got is an one year deal despite being on of the better run stopping LBs.

I'm still not convinced Wilfork can come back from his injury, but I do expect the Pats to upgrade the position in free agency or the draft. I love Wilfork, but he is expendable.

Rob0729 said:

I would much rather have the problem of not being able to stop the run than the pass. Hell, even when the Broncos run 270 yards on the ground in the regular season, not only did it not really hurt the Pats, but it probably helped the Pats get back in the game.

Few teams today have the running offense to beat teams on the ground. Hence why no free agent RB are even getting visits so far this offseason. This is a passing league. It is also why the Pats let Spikes walk and all he got is an one year deal despite being on of the better run stopping LBs.

I'm still not convinced Wilfork can come back from his injury, but I do expect the Pats to upgrade the position in free agency or the draft. I love Wilfork, but he is expendable.

Click to expand...

Love Vince. But, he's a perfect NG. Unfortunately, we don't run the 3-4 any longer and he's coming off of a major injury. I want taller, more athletic dt's who can rush the passer. For those worried about the run defense. I'd rather see Montee Ball getting a handoff than Peyton Manning chucking the ball all over the yard.

resdubwhite said:

Vince isn't gone yet and until he has he's very much the teams present in my eyes.

Click to expand...

Yes, let's not overlook this fact. He asked to be cuts few days ago and it still hasn't happened. If that was what the team really wanted, why hasn't it happened yet?

Bella*chick said:

Yes, let's not overlook this fact. He asked to be cuts few days ago and it still hasn't happened. If that was what the team really wanted, why hasn't it happened yet?

Click to expand...

One theory might be that if the Pats asked Vince to sign a new contract, he is in essence viewing himself as a FA, and may want to assess his market value before signing with anyone.

Thanks Mr. Kraft and Mr. Belichick

I will now eat my previous words (The day Talib Went) and more. A+ on the signings of Revis, Browner and now the re signing of Edelman.

I think the Patriots play best when there is 1 or 2 star DB's. I wish this could have happened in 2008, but it's never too late. Please get a good kick returner as well, the last good one was Hobbs. Edelman is the best punt returner.

A few more depth in some positions are needed, but I'm sure that will be figured out, all in all amazing job!

I have a feeling Wilfork will be back.

They're letting him cool down for a minute and think this through instead of having him act on emotions.

Or possibly exploring a trade. Or waiting for Denver to spend all their FA money so they can't sign him.

LOL re: Denver spending their FA money first. I like that theory actually, because it seems plausible.

Once a guy asks to be cut, I dunno. Sure they're all professionals blah blah blah etceterahhhh.... but (although ready to eat my words,) I have to figure this is a case of a player who's ready to move on. As we anticipate and/or fear 2014, I think true to the thoughts expressed in this title, we have to think of impending Vincelessness.

I don't think an offseason ">" makes any sense mind you. D-line play was not a weakness when Vince was out - that doesn't mean you just magically "replace" a Vince Wilfork. It means you scheme around the gigantic hole represented by his absence (meant figuratively as well as literally.)

So impending Vincelessness might turn out okay. The world didn't end when he was not on the field. But it's also nothing to sleep on... we may be looking back at 2014 and saying "With Big Vince still here, that's us hoisting the Lombardi." Maybe. Of course, the same can be said for many players on the field where you haven't upgraded.

It is what it is, to coin a phrase.

serifyn said:

Rather than not being able to stop the pass, we may soon find ourselves having difficulty stopping the run.

Click to expand...

Running games in the modern NFL are a joke. I know the old cliché is to win games you need to run the ball and stop the run. Teams used to run the ball in order to set up the pass.

Today, those clichés are completely reversed. If you want to win, you need to pass the ball and stop the pass. Also, the passing game is used to set up the run, not vice-versa.

The Broncos played 2 games against us this past season. In one, they rushed for 280 yards and lost. In the other, they rushed for 107 yards and won.

Bella*chick said:

Yes, let's not overlook this fact. He asked to be cuts few days ago and it still hasn't happened. If that was what the team really wanted, why hasn't it happened yet?

Click to expand...

They gain literally nothing by letting him go right now. They are not over the cap and they don't have to pay him any money in the immediate future. Obviously there will come a time when they have to piss or get off the pot, but that time is not yet here.

MrNathanDrake said:

I have a feeling Wilfork will be back.

They're letting him cool down for a minute and think this through instead of having him act on emotions.

Click to expand...

Cool down from what? There's no evidence Wilfork is agitated. He's known for 6 months he would not play out this final year of his current deal. (Actually, you could argue he has known since the day the deal was sign he would likely not play out the final year of his current deal).

All we have is a 2nd hand report that Wilfork asked to be released. People are acting like he is pulling a Ty Law circa 2004.