Day 1 of Free Agency: Patriots Do Nothing (merged X2 or 3)

MileHighFish said:

Yep!... Denver did get blasted in the Superbowl for sure. The Superbowl...

Say what you want (and yes, I do realize I am posting on a Pats fan forum so expect some blow back) but Elway and the Broncos front office is doing all they can to get a Superbowl victory while PM is still in town. Is that really such a bad thing???

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Not its not a bad thing at all. Its simply a different philosophy than the one we have practiced here with unparallelled success. It also should be noted that in the last 15 years, what Denver is doing has met with relatively little success.

BTW- if Ware signs with Denver the Bronc's will have added close to $30MM in APV's and are STILL missing a starting LT, LG, C, and RG on their offensive line.

patfanken said:

BTW- if Ware signs with Denver the Bronc's will have added close to $30MM in APV's and are STILL missing a starting LT, LG, C, and RG on their offensive line.

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Ryan Clady will return and is one of the best LTs in the game. Chris Clark can kick inside to LG and what's wrong with Vasquez and Ramirez at RG and C?

IllegalContact said:

on day 1: 10M/yr for talib is a panic move..........40M in guarantees for talib and ward are panic moves.

elway deserves credit just like polian deserves credit.....they both got manning to show up.......beyond that, it's urinating into a strong breeze.....at this point, the broncos are still not as good as when they ended the season

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Denver basically swapped out Champ for Talib. Talib will actually make a little less than what Champ was due next season and is an upgrade at the CB position opposite of Chris Harris.

While probably not quite as severe as the Pat's, Denver was riddled with injuries throughout the season and most notably the last part of the season with 5 defensive starts placed on the IR starting in November and sans their best offensive lineman since September... The defense SHOULD be improved with these players getting healthy along with the free agent signings imo.

patfanken said:

Not its not a bad thing at all. Its simply a different philosophy than the one we have practiced here with unparallelled success. It also should be noted that in the last 15 years, what Denver is doing has met with relatively little success.

BTW- if Ware signs with Denver the Bronc's will have added close to $30MM in APV's and are STILL missing a starting LT, LG, C, and RG on their offensive line.

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Very valid point and could very well prove to be correct. Only time will tell.

I believe everlong addressed your question regarding the Oline. Depth is the issue here and I expect Denver to sign some suitable backups later in free agency as well as possibly in the draft.

IllegalContact said:

on day 1: 10M/yr for talib is a panic move..........40M in guarantees for talib and ward are panic moves.

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To your point, I wouldn't have given Talib that money. Congrats to him for getting it though.

I personally didn't feel Ward's contract was so bad. YMMV

IllegalContact said:

elway deserves credit just like polian deserves credit.....they both got manning to show up.......beyond that, it's urinating into a strong breeze.....at this point, the broncos are still not as good as when they ended the season

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He's working on a 1-2 year plan - and figures winning a Lombardi in either year would be worth the "suckitude" down the road that could come from cap issues (although isn't the cap going up another 20% by 2016?).

They may not be as good as last year (OL issues) - but the Pats are weaker (subject to change obviously).

Snake Eyes said:

Cassell is a single data point and doesn't prove or disprove whether an general approach is valid.

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Here are some more data points.

Matt Cassel, David Givens, Ellis Hobbs, Brandon Meriweather, Ty Warren, and Law Firm all had success on the Pats and then failed to produce at the same level, if at all, elsewhere.

Mike Vrabel, Rob Ninkovich, David Patten, Reche Caldwell, Heath Evans, Antowain Smith, Bobby Hamilton, and Sammy Morris all came from mediocrity (or not playing at all) to having their best seasons on the Patriots.

Deion Branch is an example of both phenomena. I'd cite Donté Stallworth as well, though he was a bit more successful before the Pats than some of the other examples I've given.

On the flip side: other than Jeremy Mincey, who really only had that one good season, I can't think of a single player who didn't play well for the Patriots and went on to success elsewhere.

We don't hit on every free agent or draftee, obviously, but our model clearly works and has worked since Belichick got here. Sticking to it is not a bad call. People need to stop panicking.

Aside from Talib, things appear quiet for Patriots UFAs…

Aside from Talib signing with Denver, I have heard very little on twitter or online in general about the other Patriots UFAs.

These players are all unsigned and I have not even heard anything from a notable source about visits –

- Edelman
- Blount
- Spikes
- Wendell
- Fletcher
- Svitek
- Carter
- Collie
- Mulligan

Are any of you hearing anything?

Tunescribe said:

We'll find out. Historically, though, collecting high-priced free agents has never put a team over the top and can wreck a franchise for years afterward (Redskins). There often is a difference between collecting talent and building a team, as the Patriots have proven.

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That’s a valid point, but are the Broncos just collecting talent right now? The Redskins are a great example, spending a mammoth amount on Albert Haynesworth and then asking him to change positions. IMO your goal is to create a machine and you need somewhat interchangeable parts in order to keep that machine going, that’s building a team. The Haynesworth situation is trying to take the engine of your Harley and throwing it into your F150 and expecting it to work.

drpatriot said:

On the flip side: other than Jeremy Mincey, who really only had that one good season, I can't think of a single player who didn't play well for the Patriots and went on to success elsewhere.

We don't hit on every free agent or draftee, obviously, but our model clearly works and has worked since Belichick got here. Sticking to it is not a bad call. People need to stop panicking.

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Seymour, Vinatieri, Samuel and Welker all did well after they left.

Re: Aside from Talib, things appear quiet for Patriots UFAs…

Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? :deadhorse:

I've heard nothing. Yet.

Re: Aside from Talib, things appear quiet for Patriots UFAs…

Interesting to see how the Edelman thing works out.

wonder if they misread his worth.

Snake Eyes said:

Can Denver's weak areas be adequately addressed through the draft?

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I wrote something similar yesterday, and want to say up front that this is in no way meant to imply that the Patriots are better off right now than Denver, and is not meant to imply that the Patriots do not have holes to be filled and upgraded.

But for some perspective, let's consider the current state of the Denver Bronco's roster:


WR: Decker is leaving and Welker is one high hit from involuntary retirement; as of this moment they would have Andre Caldwell out wide opposite D Thomas.

RB: Knowshon Moreno is an unrestricted free agent; that leaves Montee Ball (who has had pass protection issues), and Ronnie Hillman (who played his way on to the bench after being handed the starting role).

LG: With Zane Beadles departing to Jacksonville, who starts? Ben Garland? Ramon Harewood? Perhaps Chris Clark can make the transition from tackle to guard.

OL: Zero depth at both guard and center; none on the entire OL if Clark becomes the starting LG.

DE: Robert Ayers and Shaun Phillips are both free agents, and Derek Wolfe mysteriously collapsed last November.

OLB: Von Miller is not expected to be ready to start the season, who starts until then?

MLB: Who takes Wesley Woodyard's spot? As of this moment former Patriot Paris Lenon is the starter.

CB: Aqib Talib was signed, but he misses on average about 20-25% of the games every year. Chris Harris is coming back from a torn ACL suffered in January. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is a free agent and won't be back. That leaves Tony Carter to fill in outside if/when Talib and/or Harris is out.

PR/KR: Trindon Holiday was not tendered, so that's another position that needs to be replaced.


Granted, some of those positions (RB, PR, KR) are relatively minor issues, but I just wanted to add some perspective here. The Broncos had $27 million in cap space, but after signing Talib and Ward I'm guessing that is down to about $16 million. Figuring a minimum $7 million for rookies and emergency for use during the season, that leaves Denver with only $9 million in cap space for everything else.

There's not much on their roster that can free up cap space other than converting some salary to signing bonus for Ryan Clady, which could add about $4 million in space. Even with that, there's still not a lot of cap space to sign a starting ILB, G, DE, and additional needed depth. Season ending injuries are an unfortunate reality, not an exception. Denver was able to persevere last year because they had quality depth; I'm not seeing how they will be able to handle those inevitable injuries in 2014, especially if they do indeed sign DeMarcus Ware. That's a lot of holes to be counted on to fill from the number 31 spot in the draft.

drpatriot said:

Here are some more data points.

Matt Cassel, David Givens, Ellis Hobbs, Brandon Meriweather, Ty Warren, and Law Firm all had success on the Pats and then failed to produce at the same level, if at all, elsewhere.

Mike Vrabel, Rob Ninkovich, David Patten, Reche Caldwell, Heath Evans, Antowain Smith, Bobby Hamilton, and Sammy Morris all came from mediocrity (or not playing at all) to having their best seasons on the Patriots.

Deion Branch is an example of both phenomena. I'd cite Donté Stallworth as well, though he was a bit more successful before the Pats than some of the other examples I've given.

On the flip side: other than Jeremy Mincey, who really only had that one good season, I can't think of a single player who didn't play well for the Patriots and went on to success elsewhere.

We don't hit on every free agent or draftee, obviously, but our model clearly works and has worked since Belichick got here. Sticking to it is not a bad call. People need to stop panicking.

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I might be misinterpreting your argument, or you’re contradicting yourself.

There are TONS of draftees who have failed with the Pats, which shouldn’t be a shock, just the way it is. There are also free agents that have come here and had a lot of success, others have failed. This proves that neither one is a silver bullet. If David Tyree hadn’t made a miracle catch would people talk about how free agents/trades are the way to go as opposed to the draft?

Neither one is THE way to go, they each have their strengths and weaknesses, and would optimally be used based on the teams unique situation.

Gronkandez said:

Seymour, Vinatieri, Samuel and Welker all did well after they left.

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They all did well here, too. I wouldn't consider that evidence against the Patriots system and methodology working, especially because Samuel got more money than we could afford or were willing to pay (that money went to Moss instead), we got a first-round pick that turned into Nate Solder for Seymour (who no longer wanted to play for Belichick), and we found adequate replacements for Vinatieri and Welker immediately (Gostkowski and Edelman, respectively).

I was more looking for players that developed elsewhere that didn't work here, and I can't think of any other than Mincey.

Bruce Allen ‏@bruceallen 2m
Troll RT @Dan_Shaughnessy: Love how all these Pats honks are so proud that Pats don't "overpay.'' As if they are saving their own money.

Troll MT @TonyMassarotti Boston sports very frustrating right now. Can't convince the Celtics to lose and can't convince the Patriots to win

Re: Aside from Talib, things appear quiet for Patriots UFAs…

Fletcher wants an opportunity to compete for a starting position. As we know, he will likely get zero defensive snaps for the patriots unless there are injuries.

LB Dane Fletcher visiting Tampa Bay Buccaneers - ESPN

Julian Edelman News Thread

Any updates? Are we still negotiating with him

jmt57 said:

Denver was able to persevere last year because they had quality depth; I'm not seeing how they will be able to handle those inevitable injuries in 2014, especially if they do indeed sign DeMarcus Ware. That's a lot of holes to be counted on to fill from the number 31 spot in the draft.

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Broncos agreed to terms with DE DeMarcus Ware, formerly of the Cowboys, on a three-year, $30 million contract.

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http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3170/demarcus-ware

You can always grab a few jags when you have superstars at other positions.

Re: Julian Edelman News Thread

The last news is that the patriots are continuing to negotiate with Edelman.

SalemPats said:

Any updates? Are we still negotiating with him

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Re: Julian Edelman News Thread

If we re-sign Edelman and get Talib I'll be pretty happy