Day 1 of Free Agency: Patriots Do Nothing (merged X2 or 3)

RayClay said:

Well, there must be another QB named Matt Cassel in the league the last 5 years, then

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What kind of protection did he have in KC? Their O-line was garbage.

How many OCs and systems did they have in that time? How are the players supposed to get good when they're constantly changing things around?

All that is a magnificent recipe to hamstring your offense, if you want to throw someone under the bus I suggest Scott Pioli.

RayClay said:

Talib would be crazy not to take that contract. Every time he tweaks that hip, knee or something else that's 26 million guaranteed on the bench.

Not down playing his value, but that is the same "good" that was available for a 4th round pick not long ago.

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Very good point and completely agree RayClay! I am hoping Talib plays for 75% of the season and that is unsettling considering the lack of depth Denver currently appears to have at the CB position. For the $$$, one should never hope to have said player only available for 75% of the season but that is the case in my view....

MileHighFish said:

Very good point and completely agree RayClay! I am hoping Talib plays for 75% of the season and that is unsettling considering the lack of depth Denver currently appears to have at the CB position. For the $$$, one should never hope to have said player only available for 75% of the season but that is the case in my view....

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Before this coming season is over, you'll be wanting to run Elway out of town on a rail.

Tunescribe said:

Before this coming season is over, you'll be wanting to run Elway out of town on a rail.

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yeah, he's awful. Manning, Welker, Knighton. None of those guys worked out.

Can anyone name the last time in the salary cap era when a team bought the Lombardi?


The Denver Yankees are doing just what Marshall Faulk wanted them to do, buy every big name they can for as much as they can give them and when all is said and done they won't win the Lombardi in 2014. I do however appreciate the fact that Elway is putting Manning under as much pressure to win it all as he can, that should work as well for them next season as it has the past two.


Go for it Johnny Boy, I can't wait to laugh my ass off when you fail again.

MileHighFish said:

Broncos fan here. Been checking out AFC message boards and wanted to give Snake Eyes a thumbs up for a good post. Denver has PM for 1 or 2 seasons tops. They were embarrassed in the the SB by a physical defense and have responded in free agency by going after physical defensive players.

While PM is still playing, the offense will be solid. When he retires, it will free up another $20 million in cap space allowing Denver to get Osweiler some offensive weapons (in theory).

That being said, Belichik is a smart, smart man. Denver reached on Talib's contract but really had no other choice imo. Champ was due somewhere around $9 million in 2014 and word is DRC wanted around, if not more, that amount. Talib is a better player than both at this point so why not?

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If this about a response to the loss to the Seahawks then they would have been better off giving the Saints the picks and signing Jimmy Graham to that deal, they would have been much better off long term and the way you beat Seattle is with a high powered two TE offense, that's the weak spot for that defense.

Snake Eyes said:

Might that be due to 1) Matt Cassell actually being better than he’s given credit for, 2) the overall team being quite stacked, just coming off an undefeated season, and 3) having a weak schedule?

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Either Matt Cassel is terrible and exemplifies that Belichick's system of filling the team with low-cost acquisitions works well enough to hide that, or Cassel is better than we give him credit for and Belichick's ability to draft well is proof that we should be focusing on building from within.

Yes the team was stacked, maybe so stacked that we could've gone 11-5 with Blaine Gabbert. Again, I'm not sure that argues in your favor. Our teams have been stacked enough to go to the AFC Championship eight times since Belichick came on board, including the past three years in a row.

I'll concede the easy schedule point, but will point out that Football Outsiders still had us ranked as the ninth-best team in the NFL that year even though Matt Cassel was no better than run-of-the-mill.

I just think you're wrong. If we keep following the Belichick system then we're primed for success after Brady as long as we don't bring someone in who is Brandon Weedon-level bad as the starter - and even if we did, we may still be able to elevate him to average, like we did with Cassel - he actually played worse in his first year with the Chiefs than Weeden did this year... I'd rather have sustained success for the rest of Belichick's coaching career than only try for a couple more years and then give up, as the Broncos seem to be planning to do.

Who knows. Maybe the Broncos' plan will work too. Maybe they'll somehow be able to retain one or both Thomases with their massive contract obligations, Osweiler will turn out great when Manning is gone despite ranking only 41st in completion percentage during his only starting season in college, and they'll have sustained success once Manning leaves. I just don't see how having their $10 million dollar corner on the bench during every AFC Championship game is going to help.

gronkandez said:

yeah, he's awful. Manning, welker, knighton. None of those guys worked out.

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43-8 ....

Ivan said:

If this about a response to the loss to the Seahawks then they would have been better off giving the Saints the picks and signing Jimmy Graham to that deal, they would have been much better off long term and the way you beat Seattle is with a high powered two TE offense, that's the weak spot for that defense.

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Can Denver's weak areas be adequately addressed through the draft?

Pretty balanced article about day one.

Free-Agent Frenzy «

Snake Eyes said:

Can Denver's weak areas be adequately addressed through the draft?

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I would have to look at denver much closer to have a better understanding of that but my point was that in terms specifically of beating a team like settle they would have been better off paying that price for graham as a powerful two TE offense is the best shot teams have at beating that defense. Talib isn't going to be the difference against Seattle or SF etc....


Talib is a good player but they paid him twice as much as he is worth, and while i can go along with the idea of trying to build up enough to win it all i think there is a difference between doing that and trying to buy a championship, which is clearly what Elway is doing. i don't believe it will work and I think it will leave them in real trouble a couple of years down the road.


FTR-I have experience with this phenomena. I was born and grew up a Yankee fan, however when they went out and bought A-Rod i swore them off and never supported them again. I went over to my National league team (The Giants) and have been only a Giants fan since then. (I became a Giants fan while living in SF in the early 90's so it was a great alternative option). I don't like franchises that try to buy championships and i don't believe it works, and even when it does it really isn't that satisfying. I think the Bronco's will falter under the pressure and the moves will fail.

Gronkandez said:

How about the win over the Browns or the win over the Saints? There are a lot of games that come down to a couple of plays. The teams that make the plays win the games.

If you think the AFCCG being played in Foxboro would have made a difference that is just delusional. The Broncos completely controlled that game and the Pats had no answer on either side of the ball.

If you're happy with AFCCG appearances then that's good because the Pats play in an awful division and a weak conference so they'll probably make it there four of the next five years. But is that the goal?

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Do you really think it wouldn't have made a difference? Or if the Pats only has half as many on IR?

In any case, You have to do that first, before you can advance to the Super Bowl each year.

PS: The NFC is not the most powerful Conference. It merely has a couple of good teams and a surfeit of sh!!!!ty ones to fatten up on.

drpatriot said:

Either Matt Cassel is terrible and exemplifies that Belichick's system of filling the team with low-cost acquisitions works well enough to hide that, or Cassel is better than we give him credit for and Belichick's ability to draft well is proof that we should be focusing on building from within.

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Cassell is a single data point and doesn't prove or disprove whether an general approach is valid.

Tunescribe said:

43-8 ....

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Yep!... Denver did get blasted in the Superbowl for sure. The Superbowl...

Say what you want (and yes, I do realize I am posting on a Pats fan forum so expect some blow back) but Elway and the Broncos front office is doing all they can to get a Superbowl victory while PM is still in town. Is that really such a bad thing???

Off The Grid said:

9 ~ The SeaHawks Won It All ~ and eviscerated the Broncos ~ without any such Stupidity.

10 ~ Don't Build a Kingdom...Build an Empire.

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Good post but in reference to point #9:

The Seahawks are far better at evaluating and drafting talent on D than the Pats...it's not even close. Seattle's D is mostly comprised of low draft picks and undrafted guys that proved to be a machine under Carroll. The Pats aren't on equal footing here for a comparison. The Pats got eviscerated to a lesser degree by the Broncos. The fact remains that the Broncos were and still are the better team and are being proactive to stay that way. Their efforts may ultimately fail but at least they are not being passive.

While dominating a usually weak AFC East is nice the team has largely proven it cannot hold up in the playoffs. Their way of doing things hasn't gotten them over the hump in quite awhile. I don't think it was a coincidence the Pats got markedly better after being proactive in the 06 off season with the acquisitions of Welker and Moss. As of now they need that type of move on both sides of the ball...they have too many ham and eggers surrounding Brady and on D.

MileHighFish said:

Yep!... Denver did get blasted in the Superbowl for sure. The Superbowl...

Say what you want (and yes, I do realize I am posting on a Pats fan forum so expect some blow back) but Elway and the Broncos front office is doing all they can to get a Superbowl victory while PM is still in town. Is that really such a bad thing???

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We'll find out. Historically, though, collecting high-priced free agents has never put a team over the top and can wreck a franchise for years afterward (Redskins). There often is a difference between collecting talent and building a team, as the Patriots have proven.

MileHighFish said:

Yep!... Denver did get blasted in the Superbowl for sure. The Superbowl...

Say what you want (and yes, I do realize I am posting on a Pats fan forum so expect some blow back) but Elway and the Broncos front office is doing all they can to get a Superbowl victory while PM is still in town. Is that really such a bad thing???

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jerry jones does all he can, too.

honestly, though.......what they're doing is not going to help them against the seahawks and will likely not even help them against the pats

Tunescribe said:

We'll find out. Historically, though, collecting high-priced free agents has never put a team over the top and can wreck a franchise for years afterward (Redskins). There often is a difference between collecting talent and building a team, as the Patriots have proven.

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While I agree with your post in theory, it appears the Bronco front office is structuring the contracts in efforts to avoid doing just this. Champ was due to make around $10million next season. Talib is due to make $9.5million and that is roughly what DRC was asking for as well. The difference being the guaranteed $. Ward's contract was a steal imo.

According to an article posted on itsalloverfatman.com, the salary cap is expected to increase to roughly $145 million in 2015. Prior to the signings yesterday, Denver currently has about $61million set in the books for 2015 player salaries. That will change when they resign some big names to long term contracts including Miller, D Thomas amongst others (although Von may not cost as much due to his off field issues as of later along with the ACL injury, he will still cost a pretty penny). They should still be in good shape when free agency starts next season.

Once PM retires (ouch) it will hurt tremendously but will also create about an additional $20 million in cap space. The Denver front office seems to be all in on Brock Osweiler taking over the helm and the additional $ should allow them to sign some pieces to bolster the offense and help him out imo. Granted no Bronco fan can honestly not expect a big drop off in the offense in PM's absence.

The Redskins/Snyder were not smart regarding the structuring of contracts and players they signed. I am confident the Denver brass is competent in this regard to avoid a severe hit in future years.

Drewski said:

Of course they did....the cap in 2007 was what 20% less than what it is now? Everything in life is relative.

Nor did I say they did. I asked you to clarify because I was trying to figure out if your point of adding talent is "a panic move" always as a rule, or is just some cases.

No, because there is no point to it. IF X THEN Y ELSE Z should be left to math and science.

And I, A, agreed that the Pats don't and B, threw out the point that the teams who do generally have reasons for doing so (they suck/are flush with cash).

FA is a good way to augment a team....not build one.

Again, you are taking me giving Elway credit for something more than it is. I'm a "just win" type - whatever the means to that end is - works for me. No style or story points from this reader.

Yup - again my point had to do with wanting clarification on your line about panic moves. I was not equating 2007 Pats offseason (via trade) to 2014 Broncos (Day 1 FA spend) as clearly they are apples and car tires (FA vs Trade). They are both however examples of adding talent and wanted to see what constituted a panic move.

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on day 1: 10M/yr for talib is a panic move..........40M in guarantees for talib and ward are panic moves.

elway deserves credit just like polian deserves credit.....they both got manning to show up.......beyond that, it's urinating into a strong breeze.....at this point, the broncos are still not as good as when they ended the season

IllegalContact said:

jerry jones does all he can, too.

honestly, though.......what they're doing is not going to help them against the seahawks and will likely not even help them against the pats

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I'm sorry but Jerry Jones IS what is wrong with the Cowboys... No owner should be as involved in player personnel decisions as JJ is imo. Comparing the Denver and Dallas front offices is ludicrous imo.

Should the other 31 NFL teams just concede the SB to the Seahawks the next few years? Say what you want but while Denver's signings may not put them on the same level as Seattle, they certainly help to improve the team as a whole and make them more competitive.