Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to go

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

JackBauer said:

Give me Browner and Ward. Whitner is eh...

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Do you feel he is a product of the 49ers system or just not very good? I'm not familiar with his play but thought his playing style was in the mold of Chancellor/Harrison?

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

Come On Man....

Can't you guys see thorugh this? The guy is being courted by the Jets, so his agent sneaks out the old "The Patriots are a possibility" line. This is like whenever the Sox or Yankees are targeting a free agent, their agents almost always say that if the Sox are looking at someone, that the Yankees are also interested.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the mirror", this is a smoke screen made to dupe the Jets into acting quickly and overpaying, and I'm sure they will fall for it.

If the Pats are going to overpay for anyone, it should be Talib, someone already proven that he can play in the Pats ssytem.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

mayoclinic said:

I just don't see Verner as that good a fit for the Pats. He's not a great press-man CB, and he lacks the size to be a true #1 CB. He's very good in a zone scheme, but I don't really want to run that, personally. I'd rather have Talib, and get a solid backup so that we don't throw everything out when he gets dinged up.

But I'm hoping this does put some pressure on Talib to think about the Pats' offer. That window may be closing.

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I completely understand where you're coming from and its youe opinion which i respect a lot but i much rather have Verner playing zone in the afc championship game than having a backup trying to play press-man.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

patsinthesnow said:

Do you feel he is a product of the 49ers system or just not very good? I'm not familiar with his play but thought his playing style was in the mold of Chancellor/Harrison?

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He's good enough but he can be exploited in coverage, though of course he's still an upgrade over Gregory. Ward is just my own preference, but the choice isn't one that would keep me up at night.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

FreeTedWilliams said:

If the Pats are going to overpay for anyone, it should be Talib, someone already proven that he can play in the Pats ssytem.

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Well, no. Overpaying for a guy who is a constant injury risk is really not the best idea I've heard this offseason.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

BradyFTW! said:

The problem with replacing Talib with Verner is that we're back to the smurf CB issue. I firmly believe that you need at least one guy who can match up against 6'3"+ receivers.

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Size is great, but consistency and reliability are better. For how many games was Talib a force this year? 5? Talib is still a tease in my book. He can shut down Demarius Thomas one week then get embarrassed by Steve Smith the next (yes, I know that happened in opposite order).

Alterraun Verner might be the NFL's top free agent. | SportsonEarth.com : Mike Tanier Article

I like the strengths in Verner's game; anticipation, quickness, doesn't give up the big play on the short pass. These are the things that Patriots DBs seem to lack every single year. He seems to fit the zone corner system that the Patriots have employed. He seems to be willing to take a couple million less than Talib.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

stinkypete said:

Size is great, but consistency and reliability are better. For how many games was Talib a force this year? 5? Talib is still a tease in my book. He can shut down Demarius Thomas one week then get embarrassed by Steve Smith the next (yes, I know that happened in opposite order).

Alterraun Verner might be the NFL's top free agent. | SportsonEarth.com : Mike Tanier Article

I like the strengths in Verner's game; anticipation, quickness, doesn't give up the big play on the short pass. These are the things that Patriots DBs seem to lack every single year. He seems to fit the zone corner system that the Patriots have employed. He seems to be willing to take a couple million less than Talib.

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Before he was injured, Talib was the model of consistency. He shut down Vincent Jackson, Julio Jones, AJ Green and Jimmy Graham in back-to-back-to-back-to-back weeks. He was making a pretty solid case to show that, when healthy, he's one of the 3 or 4 best corners alive. The problem is that he can't stay healthy, and to whatever extent he has a consistency issue, it's entirely a function of his inability to stay healthy.

Re: Steve Smith, he didn't exactly torch Talib. He had 4 catches for 62 yards, and IIRC those weren't all against Talib. One of those was a key play late in the game, but if that's how we're defining "torched" now, then Alterraun Verner gets torched as well, and by the likes of Eric Decker.

Also, Steve Smith is exactly the kind of WR that Talib matches up worst against. I don't read a ton into the fact that he got 60 total yards on an already-injured Talib. Talib is a much, much better player than Alterraun Verner, durability aside. The only reason why it's even a question is because durability isn't something that you can put aside. It's a big deal, Verner has it, and Talib doesn't.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

stinkypete said:

Size is great, but consistency and reliability are better. For how many games was Talib a force this year? 5? Talib is still a tease in my book. He can shut down Demarius Thomas one week then get embarrassed by Steve Smith the next (yes, I know that happened in opposite order).

Alterraun Verner might be the NFL's top free agent. | SportsonEarth.com : Mike Tanier Article

I like the strengths in Verner's game; anticipation, quickness, doesn't give up the big play on the short pass. These are the things that Patriots DBs seem to lack every single year. He seems to fit the zone corner system that the Patriots have employed. He seems to be willing to take a couple million less than Talib.

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See now I know people don't watch the games. The Pats have not "employed" a zone scheme since Talib got here.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

Sicilian said:

Talib GP:

2010 = 11
2011 = 13
2012 = 10
2013 = 13

Verner GP:

2010 = 16
2011 = 16
2012 = 16
2013 = 16

Yes please.

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Talib played 6 games in 2013, the other 7 he was on the field

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

BradyFTW! said:

Before he was injured, Talib was the model of consistency. He shut down Vincent Jackson, Julio Jones, AJ Green and Jimmy Graham in back-to-back-to-back-to-back weeks. He was making a pretty solid case to show that, when healthy, he's one of the 3 or 4 best corners alive. The problem is that he can't stay healthy, and to whatever extent he has a consistency issue, it's entirely a function of his inability to stay healthy.

Re: Steve Smith, he didn't exactly torch Talib. He had 4 catches for 62 yards, and IIRC those weren't all against Talib. One of those was a key play late in the game, but if that's how we're defining "torched" now, then Alterraun Verner gets torched as well, and by the likes of Eric Decker.

Also, Steve Smith is exactly the kind of WR that Talib matches up worst against. I don't read a ton into the fact that he got 60 total yards on an already-injured Talib. Talib is a much, much better player than Alterraun Verner, durability aside. The only reason why it's even a question is because durability isn't something that you can put aside. It's a big deal, Verner has it, and Talib doesn't.

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Unfortunately, you cannot call an injury prone player the model of consistency under any circumstances. When healthy, Talib is an elite player. Unfortunately, he has a hip issue that is a model of consistency itself because it constantly becomes a problem.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

Marqui said:

See now I know people don't watch the games. The Pats have not "employed" a zone scheme since Talib got here.

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Belichick is going to use a scheme that best suits the talents of the players on his roster. I got the sense that Belichick switched the scheme to suit Talib's talents after he got there. Before that we played mostly zone, back when McCourty was playing corner all the way back to when Asante played for us, which is what I think stinkypete was referring to.

Belichick's familiar with both schemes and if he sees Verner as a better personality fit for the team than Talib, sees him as a lower injury risk, and thinks he will take less money than Talib is asking, then I'm sure Belichick wouldn't hesitate to switch back to playing mostly zone.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

A very detailed breakdown of Verner here by Cian Fahey.

Breaking Down Tennessee Titans Free Agent Alterraun Verner | Bleacher Report

The conclusion:

There is an accepted line of thinking that suggests Revis was underused as a man cover cornerback. The same could be said about Verner. The Titans cornerback had just two fewer qualifying man coverage snaps compared to Revis in 2013.

Both players are very impressive in zone coverage. Verner has such an incredible ability to read plays as they develop, while Revis' fluidity and quickness is unrivaled. But teams don't give out huge contracts to cornerbacks who can't excel in man coverage.

From an efficiency perspective, Verner's 79.8 percent success rate is right there with Revis' 81.9 percent and actually eclipses Richard Sherman's 78.2 percent success rate for 2012. However, taking raw numbers without context is a fatal mistake.

Verner faced a large number of receivers who will be lucky to spend more than three years in the league. When he faced the best receiver on his schedule, he capitulated. Both Sherman and Revis have repeatedly proved they can shut down better receivers than Decker.

Projecting what Verner will be moving forward is impossible. Projecting what he can be is easy.

Verner has all the talent to be a shutdown cornerback, but he needs to prove it. Teams looking to sign him don't have the benefit of foresight. They have to bet on what they saw in 2013. What they saw in 2013 was very impressive.

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Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

varjao said:

Talib played 6 games in 2013, the other 7 he was on the field

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The guy who writes the checks said it all....its about doing business with a player that misses games. Kraft likes Talib but has to factor in his durability because its "business". In other words, in the organizations mind, his value gets discounted.
Which contract will Talib's agent steer his client towards.....the Patriots Offer that is likely infused with incentives based on games played.....or more guaranteed money from a team willing to secure the player?

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

Marqui said:

See now I know people don't watch the games. The Pats have not "employed" a zone scheme since Talib got here.

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The pats ran a lot of zone coverage after Talib got hurt. The implication of what you're saying is sort of right, though, since it's clear that they prefer to run press-man provided that they have the personnel to execute it.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

Rob0729 said:

Unfortunately, you cannot call an injury prone player the model of consistency under any circumstances. When healthy, Talib is an elite player. Unfortunately, he has a hip issue that is a model of consistency itself because it constantly becomes a problem.

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What are you disagreeing with in my post? That's almost exactly what I said. I said that his level of performance is extremely consistent when he's healthy, but he can't stay healthy with any reliability.

In other words, I was objecting to the characterization of him as a tease who shows up some weeks and doesn't show up on others. Week-to-week inconsistency is an entirely separate issue that a lot of players have, but Talib isn't one of them. When he's healthy, he brings it. Any variations in his level of play are due pretty much entirely to injuries.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

Marqui said:

See now I know people don't watch the games. The Pats have not "employed" a zone scheme since Talib got here.

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So if Talib is gone this next season there's not a chance they won't return to a zone scheme?

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

JMC00 said:

Ya he really does.

Verner-Browner-Dennard-Arrington-Ryan would be one of the better CB corps in Belichick's tenure.

Add that with one of the best FS in the league and pair him with someone like Exum and having two LB that can adequately drop back in Mayo and Collins and the pass defense would be top 10/top 5 in the league

Brady's window is closing, gotta do something and it's gotta be on defense.

Plus this

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Is it wrong to admit I get wood watching this?

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

KontradictioN said:

If we got Browner and Ward, I would be making the same face that Commodus is making in my avatar every single game when they begin destroying people in the defensive backfield.

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Do you happen to have his sister's phone #? PM me.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

I doubt he comes here. Probably one of those things where Agent links the patriot to his guy to try to generate more interest. If BB is interested in you, you're probably a pretty damn good player.

Re: Alrerraun Verner: Pats are a "definite possibilty" & Jason McCourty told him to g

BradyFTW! said:

What are you disagreeing with in my post? That's almost exactly what I said. I said that his level of performance is extremely consistent when he's healthy, but he can't stay healthy with any reliability.

In other words, I was objecting to the characterization of him as a tease who shows up some weeks and doesn't show up on others. Week-to-week inconsistency is an entirely separate issue that a lot of players have, but Talib isn't one of them. When he's healthy, he brings it. Any variations in his level of play are due pretty much entirely to injuries.

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I guess I didn't read the post you were responding to.