Ron Borges: Defender of Vince Wilfork?

Many have already said what I came here to say. Whether he's right or wrong is irrelevant, Ron Borges was always going to "defend" Vince Wilfork, because he's the player. The day Ron Borges says, "You know what, the player is wrong here and the Patriots are right" is the day we should prepare for the invasion of the bodysnatchers.

Rob0729 said:

Belichick like anyone else deserves criticism for some moves and praise for others. I disagree with your assessments here:

1.) It was a near universal agreement at the time of the trade that acquiring Chad Ochocinco was a good move by Belichick. It is 20/20 hindsight that people kill that move. You go back and look at this board at the time of the trade and people were predicting 1,100-1,200 season for Ocho.
2.) Amendola has been a bad move thus far, but he could pan out. So far he deserves criticism for this.
3.) As much as Hernandez is a disgusting piece of sub-human garbage, drafting him from a pure football standpoint was a great draft pick. He provided the Pats with more production than most fourth rounders ever do. You can blame him for the contract extension, but there is no way anyone could have expected him to be a murderer.
4.) His haters (at least from a GM standpoint) always point out his trading down, but these trading down tend to pay off as much as they are busts. The Pats got players like Chandler Jones, Rob Gronkowski, and Julian Edelman with picks they got from trading out of the first round.

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I agree, and I do so love the revisionist historians on the perception of decisions at the time the decisions were made.

The Hernandez extension was celebrated. He had history, but so do many great football players. Everything on him said he turned his life around.

Chad Johnson had a mouth, but also a work ethic. He was similar to Randy Moss's situation (Remember that stupid trade by the Pats?). Johnson didn't work, but adding a 1,000 yard receiver who could stretch the field on the surface did not look foolish at the time. It simply didn't work out.

And given the old rookie contract formula, trading higher round picks carrying contracts of questionable worth for multiple lower value contracts was generally reviewed post-draft by educated critics as sound decisionmaking. Pointing to the Brady's and Marino's who were available in the draft after success years later does not make the practice ill-advised.

EddieBlake said:

Ron Borges is playing what we used to call "the long con" on Patriots fans. He's setting us up. He doesnt care about big Vince. He sees the writing on the wall(unintentional Pink Floyd reference). Right now he's on record as defending Vince,so when we inevitably dump him no one can say anything when Borges writes his 5000th piece bashing Belichick.

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Bingo we got bingo. First thing i thought off. He positioned himself so either way he wins. We dump him he says " I told you so but no one would listen" we dont dump him " They'd be morons to do that glad someone listened". Majority of people who don't pay attention eat this up.

Danger Zone said:

Don?t capsize big Vince | Boston Herald

Perhaps I have simply lived too long in this crazy, inconstant world.. but did I just find myself applauding a.. a.. Ron Borges article?!?!?!

Is this one of the Seven Signs of the Apocalyse?

As much as I want to stick around and defend Big Vince.. I'm not sure I can live in a world where Ron Borges made me smile..

Cues up: Pink Floyd's, Goodbye cruel world.

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I like the article and agree that we should retain Wilfork. That aside I think Borges is preparing with the hope that Wilfork is released and he can use this situation to turn people against Belichick.

Borges mentioned that in his WEEI interview that someone on the Sports Hub has stated the possibility of his release.
Why wouldn't they be able to restructure his deal and extend him? Only if Wilfork thinks this is his last year he wants to play or he wants to go into free agency next year would he not want to, unless cash paid out will be less.
Borges fails to mention that there are a number of draft prospects (Nix, Jernigan, Hageman, Tuitt, DaQuan Jones, McCullers, etc.) & FAs (Joseph, Soliai, Raji, etc.) that could replace Wilfork as he gets defensive that no one can name anyone that can replace him that isn't currently on the roster.

Ron Borges on the future of Vince Wilfork

EddieBlake said:

Ron Borges is playing what we used to call "the long con" on Patriots fans. He's setting us up. He doesnt care about big Vince. He sees the writing on the wall(unintentional Pink Floyd reference). Right now he's on record as defending Vince,so when we inevitably dump him no one can say anything when Borges writes his 5000th piece bashing Belichick.

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I don't read Borges anymore and haven't for years because the agenda is so way over the top obvious. I agree with this take, he doesn't give a crap about Wilfork he just sees the writing on the wall and wants the opportunity to trash Belichick for playing hardball with one of their greatest player's. I am a huge Wilfork fan and want a restructure but given the cap number i can actually un derstand it if they decide they can't carry it into this season. Hopefully they can find a way to compensate Wilfork and cover the team's ass in case he can't recover from this.

edboc said:

Borges mentioned that in his WEEI interview that someone on the Sports Hub has stated the possibility of his release.
Why wouldn't they be able to restructure his deal and extend him? Only if Wilfork thinks this is his last year he wants to play or he wants to go into free agency next year would he not want to, unless cash paid out will be less.
Borges fails to mention that there are a number of draft prospects (Nix, Jernigan, Hageman, Tuitt, DaQuan Jones, McCullers, etc.) & FAs (Joseph, Soliai, Raji, etc.) that could replace Wilfork as he gets defensive that no one can name anyone that can replace him that isn't currently on the roster.

Ron Borges on the future of Vince Wilfork

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They could extend him but if he's going to be useless to them due to his injury, it would be a stupid thing to do. So that's probably why they haven't done it. They're not sure he's recovered.

RayClay said:

I wouldn't say the Ocho deal was universally praised. Being that I hated it, I noted others who did too.

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When I said universally, I should have said the overwhelming majority. There were people who hated the move, but at least 7 or 8 out of 10 people liked or loved the move.

Borges is such a moron. Cant stand listening to him speak. Every time "Ahh well you know blah blah"

EddieBlake said:

Ron Borges is playing what we used to call "the long con" on Patriots fans. He's setting us up. He doesnt care about big Vince. He sees the writing on the wall(unintentional Pink Floyd reference). Right now he's on record as defending Vince,so when we inevitably dump him no one can say anything when Borges writes his 5000th piece bashing Belichick.

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Exactly. I won't read the article but it's clearly obvious what his stance would be. Take the players side so if (when?) Vince is asked to redo his contract or be cut, Ron Ron can crap on Kraft, BB, etc. I don't see how the Pats are going to take the $11M cap hit for Vince this year. I could certainly be wrong.

I heard Borges this morning on WEEI and he basically said that Vince is not going to just agree to a pay cut without an extension. Duh!

He then went on to say how players think they are going get everything they sign for when they agree to a contract. That might be true for guys signing their first non-rookie deal, but not guys like Wilfork who have been around the block and seen pro-bowl caliber veterans leave for better deals than they could wrangle from the Patriots.

Basically, the Patriots can sign two or three good players for what Vince will get paid in 2014-15, and it's a very good bet they'll draft a DL in the first or 2nd round.

I'd rather see Vince get a piece of that money and see the rest spent on two good players, than for Belichick to suddenly get sentimental and let Vince absorb 9% of the 2014 cap.

Realistically, what is Vince going to get on the open market? Outside of the top three (McCoy, Suh and Ngata) even the best interior DLs are in the $3 to $5 million per year range. http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/defensive-tackle/

At his age with the injury, Vince is probably looking at a market that says two years at $4 million per plus $2.5 million in workout and performance bonuses.

If the Patriots threw in an extra year, making it three years and add $1.5 million, they can lower their cap number to the $4 million.year range and Vince can go out with a little more money and as a Patriot. If he won't agree to something like that, he's gone.

goheels22002 said:

At his age with the injury, Vince is probably looking at a market that says two years at $4 million per plus $2.5 million in workout and performance bonuses.

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The only problem I see is that its often easier emotionally for players to accept less money elsewhere than it is for them to take less money at their current team -- at their current team they feel slighted when asked to take a paycut.

I doubt Vince at his age and coming off that injury would get what you suggest on the open market. I think he'd get more like 2/6.
Imagine if Vince played for another team; I think people here would be absolutely angry if we offered him 2 years / 10m.

So the only question becomes once Vince is asked to take a huge paycut, will he say 'I like living in MA and I like playing football, so the money doesn't matter at all'. Or will he say 'I like living in MA, but this is BS, I'll find another team even if it means 3-4m for one year'.

I clicked on that article early in the AM not seeing that it was an article by Ron Borges.

Why it struck a chord with me while reading it was that nobody was taking the sentimental homer view on Vince... and sometimes it's just nice to hear people do that.

I overlooked some of the usual Borges dribble and faulty logic and I missed the usual Borge's Golemesque agenda because on first read it looked like he was simply a man defending Wilfork... and I wanted someone to do that.

Everyone has been so objective and clinical about Vince. I get it. It is the right football approach to take. It's just really surprised me though how *easy* it appears to have been for the fans to do.

Vince is right up there beside Bruschi on my list of sentimental favorites. I just don't want to see him in another's team's uniform.

But Ron Borges, well he returns to being the boycotted little piss-ant he deserves to be.

borg said:

As far as Stinko goes.....HOW DID BB NOT KNOW THAT STINKO lacked mental functionality and stability. How did BB not know Stinko's route tree consisted of only curl, crossing, and post pattern and how did BB not know Stinko couldn't identify defenses and process that info on the fly....then adjust the pattern? His rep at Cincy was he didn't take coaching well.....and unfortunately we find out first hand that he couldn't handle the complexities.
Stinko is the classic out-loud thinker...Every thought that travels through his mind finds its way onto his lips.......and that is as deep as it gets. They don't think....they react.
BB must of been smitten that a celebrity paid attention to him...and the bromance clouded his judgement....because this was a a huge miss.
The missed signals
1) Stinko was self centered throughout his Cincy career.....cannot be argued. Goes against the Patriot Way
2) Battled coaches at Cincy....Goes against the Patriot Way
3) Football not a priority..........Tabloid coverage was

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Talk to other coaches. Talk to former Bengal players. Belichick is connected in the NFL.

It seems to me that certainty of said player having enough smarts to learn and execute the Patriots offense would be high up on the list of qualifications before forking out 6 million bucks.

The issue is how much Wilfork is worth. Structuring a contract is NOT an issue. Who, except relatives and agents, think that Wilfork should get $8M of new money for 2014 services?

MassPats38 said:

I agree, and I do so love the revisionist historians on the perception of decisions at the time the decisions were made

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Good, because no matter how many excuses you can dream up the moves were failures.

Like drafting Maroney when Jones Drew was on the board. But, as you later rationilize, MJD would have wanted more money down the road so the Pats were actually better off drafting the loser.

The Hernandez extension was celebrated. He had history, but so do many great football players. Everything on him said he turned his life around.

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BS. Not every football player shoots someone in College. Try again.

Chad Johnson had a mouth, but also a work ethic. He was similar to Randy Moss's situation (Remember that stupid trade by the Pats?). Johnson didn't work, but adding a 1,000 yard receiver who could stretch the field on the surface did not look foolish at the time. It simply didn't work out.

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That move may have cost Brady another Super Bowl.

With Gronk hobbled, Johnson could not be trusted on the field in SB42 because he did not know where to line up.

And given the old rookie contract formula, trading higher round picks carrying contracts of questionable worth for multiple lower value contracts was generally reviewed post-draft by educated critics as sound decisionmaking. Pointing to the Brady's and Marino's who were available in the draft after success years later does not make the practice ill-advised.

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Too funny.

So a good player who might demand a higher contract is someone to avoid. Sound decision making my axx.

I skimmed through the article and basically he's arguing that people saying to cut Wilfork are wrong, and then tries to make himself look like a genius by pointing out we could cut Sopoaga and Wilson to save money INSTEAD of Wilfork.

Why not cut all 3 to save even MORE money? I'm pretty sure the same ones who think the Pats should cut Wilfork are the ones who also want Sopoaga and Wilson gone.

Triumph said:

That move may have cost Brady another Super Bowl.

With Gronk hobbled, Johnson could not be trusted on the field in SB42 because he did not know where to line up.

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I think the rigidity of the Pat's decision makers lead to Johnson's failures.
We know that he was incapable of learning the offense.
We also know that he had some really good seasons in Cincy by running simple routes without any adjustments to the defense.

Why couldn't they have put him in the best position to succeed? Give him a set route, and have the rest of the offense run normal.

voluntarysaftey said:

I think the rigidity of the Pat's decision makers lead to Johnson's failures.
We know that he was incapable of learning the offense.
We also know that he had some really good seasons in Cincy by running simple routes without any adjustments to the defense.

Why couldn't they have put him in the best position to succeed? Give him a set route, and have the rest of the offense run normal.

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Maybe we could have brought in his own quarterback, so he had someone who would stand there and wait for him to get open, or get sacked?

goheels22002 said:

Realistically, what is Vince going to get on the open market? Outside of the top three (McCoy, Suh and Ngata) even the best interior DLs are in the $3 to $5 million per year range. 2014 NFL Top Base Salaries - Defensive Tackle

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It's amazing what McCoy, Suh, and Ngata do the franchise tag number, which is almost 10 million dollars.

I didn't realize that there were so many guys in the 3-4 million dollar range. Geez, Sopoaga is the 12th highest paid DT in the game.

I'm not as sure that Wilfork would get something as low as you suggest, but your point is valid. I'm still thinking that someone would give him 4-5m for sure, as long as he's healthy.