The dreaded "source": Spikes and Pats ain't sayin' **** to each other

Fencer · Mar 3, 2014

hwc said:
Spikes was finished as a Patriot when he made the decision to skip the offseason conditioning program in Foxboro last spring.

More precisely, he was finished when, after making that decision, he didn't have a good conditioning/health year,

woolster22 · Mar 4, 2014

People actually thought spikes was going to be brought back?

There is a team out there that will over pay for his "phenomenal" skills (gap guessing, blowing up g/c), they will also receive a slow step, and an inability to cover. Spikes is great with what's in front of him. You ask him to venture laterally/back and things deteriorate; quickly.

A decade ago Ted Johnson would have had something to worry about.

woolster22 · Mar 4, 2014

supafly said:
While that's one way of looking at it (and you could be right about this specific situation), the other side of the coin would be his limitations in talent, his inconsistent play in the 4 overall years, and the whispers about his attitude and maturity issues.

Just looking at his off-field issues since he came here:

--sex tape

--chat roulette on the constant, reportedly showed his penis

--tweet regarding "cocaine and Jack Daniels" left for Santa Claus

--other odd twitter messages that the media implied could be hints to his displeasure with Belichick and the team in general

--decision to skip offseason workouts

--instead of choosing to shovel his driveway like the rest of the players, he decided it'd be much better to post snapchat pics of his Porsche and the snow.....twice in a 20 min span....during the week of the divisional playoff game when other players made the necessary arrangements to make sure they were at work

I'm not claiming that any of these things are the reason for his possible departure or that they are severe enough to warrant him leaving, but I am noting that there have been hints about his immaturity and attitude concerns to take into account before we go blaming Belichick.

There is also the fact that there were a nice group here who were starting to call him a bust about halfway through the 2011 season, when he had looked lost in his first 1.5 seasons here. He turned that around down the stretch run of the 2011 season, and that led to a great 2012 season. The problem of inconsistent play seem to come up again in 2013 however, although some of that can probably be attributed to the injuries on the defense just as well.

In the end, I actually hope they keep him, but if they do it would be on their terms for a cheaper hope in price, and the cards are looking like he's probably going to be a player on another team at this point. Good luck to him.

Writing was on the wall with the Hightower draft.

supafly · Mar 4, 2014

JPsPats said:
Yeah he's so slow and a liability in coverage. It's not like he had a clutch pick against flacco in the AFCCG.

I think that may have been a prime example of a broken clock being right 2x a day, and/or Flacco's poor decision making, but yes...there were times where Spikes made great plays.

For the record, I'm not nearly as high on Hightower as some here either. Hopefully he continues to grow as a player.

Deus Irae · Mar 4, 2014

Spikes has been a good player for the Patriots. He's better suited for the 3-4 than the 4-3, and he's a liability in coverage. If we want to look for when the writing was on the wall, we can look to when BB kept playing the 4-3 despite having a full stable of 3-4 linebackers and a nose tackle.

That same writing looks to be in Dont'a Hightower's ledger right now, too.

Tasco · Mar 4, 2014

How does Beauharnais compare to Spikes? Yes, he was inactive for the whole season, but maybe they feel comfortable with their depth with Beauharnais and resigning Fletcher?

Brady6 · Mar 4, 2014

PP2 said:
You clearly have a personal dislike of Spikes.

Not at all, I was a big Spikes supporter during the Super Bowl run of 2011 and the 2012 season. I have disappointment in Spikes for how his career transpired here. I thought that 2012 was going to be a building block to becoming and elite LB instead he skipped all of the offseason training with the team and then came in to have an inconsistent 2013 that ended with him being forced onto injured reserve.

He obviously isn't suited for pass coverage. That was known from day one and his being on the field in any third and long situation is not his fault.

I agree but that does not make it less of an actuality. Spikes had value to the Patriots that he would not have on every team I in the NFL. Jerod Mayo covered up a lot of Spikes inadequacies, and he was able to move inside in the 4-2-5 nickel and 4-1-6 dime packages, most teams rely on their MLBs to be part of those packages.

Firing up a defense and inspiring them to play tough isn't something that shows up in the stats.

I would consider Spikes a physical presence, but he was far from an emotional leader. He was not dedicated to the team enough to be followed by others.

Brady6 · Mar 4, 2014

supafly said:
I think he does bring a lot of "POWWWWWW" to the defense (in his terms), but he also seems to be kind of immature, and there are whispers as to how his attitude may be as well.

I agree, he had that factor but it was not consistent and the immaturity likely caused that. He played an emotional brand of football so when he was in a good place he was out there laying the lumber and playing good, when something was bothering him he was a non-factor.

In the end, I'd love to see him back for 2--2.5m per year or so, but there's a possibility that Belichick doesn't even want him to return, and/or someone definitely paying more for him. I didn't see him as a huge priority though.

I would absolutely have Spikes back if he and Belichick could come to an understanding of what the conduct expectations are. I am not sure that is impossible despite reports, if he has limited interest on the market he may be humbled and sign a 1-year show me type deal.

Out of his 4 yrs here, he had a great run starting at the stretch playoff run leading to our SB appearance in 2011, that continued into 2012 as well. The other time was spent hearing about how he was a possible bust up until that point, and was followed by a strange circumstance in 2013 due to all of the injuries. I didn't see anything that screamed the word "consistent," however.

I am not sure what went on with him this past season, if it was injuries or attitude but I really expected him to build on his 2012 season and he did not. Before Mayo’s injury, he was not much of a factor at all, with just 18 tackles and 10 assists in his first 6 games.

I think he is what he is--which is a pretty good run defender, who can bring physicality to the defense and pump them up. There are obviously some limitations in his game as well, so the big unknown would be how Belichick feels about him and any attitude/immaturity issues that he may have had. We'll probably never hear about any of those concerns though, so it's all up in the air.

I think he is a damn shame to be honest, he has the potential to be one of the most feared LBs in the NFL, but his idiotic attitude stands in the way. He had an opportunity here to start from day one and really make a name for himself and he has screwed it up from day one between PEDs, foot in mouth comments, and other issues.

RayClay · Mar 4, 2014

Brady6 said:
I think others overrate the physical intimidator Spikes was this past season. He was a physical presence in 2012 but he was not nearly the factor this past season of any other of his three seasons. In 2012, he was a difference maker on defense; he forced 5 fumbles, 1 sack, knocked down 7 passes, and had 5 run stuffs for a net loss of 24 yards. In his other 3 seasons, he had 0 forced fumbles, 0 sacks, and 6 pass knock down.

Did you really think Spikes was a big hitter consistently? I did not, I thought he could lay the lumber at times but it was not part of his game on a regular basis.

He was not physical enough to shovel snow.

Makes you wonder why, if they had one of the best DTs in Siliga, they put a one legged LB on the field instead of a healthy, fast, good coverage Collins.

Somethings wrong with that picture.

Triumph · Mar 4, 2014

mcmurtry86 said:
Since 2010 (Spikes' rookie year) - Mayo has 6 FF, 4 FR, 3 INT, 7.5 sacks

Spikes - 4 FF (all in 2012), 1 FR, 2 INT, 1 sack.

But yes....Mayo is the one who doesn't make big plays.

And for all of Spikes' overrated runs stuffs at the line or behind the line, there are a number of him guessing the wrong gap or letting the ball carrier get beyond him.

One of the most overrated players in terms of "impact plays" I can remember and doesn't belong in the same conversation as Mayo in terms of overall player or overall impact on the team.

Spikes is being remembered as **** Butkus II.

Spikes was average at best and very inconsistent. Every once in a while Spikes would deliver a big hit.

BrickPat · Mar 4, 2014

Brady6 said:
Some call it not speaking. I call it improving our pass defense.

Hightower says hello.

Brady6 · Mar 4, 2014

RayClay said:
Makes you wonder why, if they had one of the best DTs in Siliga, they put a one legged LB on the field instead of a healthy, fast, good coverage Collins.

Somethings wrong with that picture.

Don’t get me wrong over the final 4 games Siliga played really good at the 1-Tech but he was not one of the best in the NFL, that is something that takes more than 4 games to become. Prior to Siliga, we were the 32nd ranked defense against the run with Brandon Spikes –

- Week 1-136
- Week 2-129
- Week 3-97
- Week 4-58
- Week 5-162
- Week 6-131
- Week 7-177
- Week 8-156
- Week 9-108
- Week 10-Bye
- Week 11-103
- Week 12-280
- Week 13-121
- Week 14-108
- Week 15-89
- Week 16-121
- Week 17-169
- Division-69
- ConfChamp-107

The best games against the run (post Wilfork) occurred in Miami when Spikes played just 21 snaps and had 0 tackles and against the Colts when Spikes was on injured reserve. Against Atlanta in week 4 Spikes played only 6 snaps, that was our lowest rushing yards against game of the season. In comparison, Spikes played the highest percent of the teams snaps in week 5 (79.3%), week 7 (72.2%), week 8 (77.5%), and week 12 (75.5%) which were the most yards allowed in games this season.

Brady6 · Mar 4, 2014

BrickPat said:
Hightower says hello.

Did you know Hightower actually had just a 53.8% completion percentage against in 2013, despite being the most targeted Patriots LB?

Spikes had a 66.67% completion percentage against in 2013.

RayClay · Mar 4, 2014

Brady6 said:
Don’t get me wrong over the final 4 games Siliga played really good at the 1-Tech but he was not one of the best in the NFL, that is something that takes more than 4 games to become. Prior to Siliga, we were the 32nd ranked defense against the run with Brandon Spikes –

- Week 1-136
- Week 2-129
- Week 3-97
- Week 4-58
- Week 5-162
- Week 6-131
- Week 7-177
- Week 8-156
- Week 9-108
- Week 10-Bye
- Week 11-103
- Week 12-280
- Week 13-121
- Week 14-108
- Week 15-89
- Week 16-121
- Week 17-169
- Division-69
- ConfChamp-107

The best games against the run (post Wilfork) occurred in Miami when Spikes played just 21 snaps and had 0 tackles and against the Colts when Spikes was on injured reserve. Against Atlanta in week 4 Spikes played only 6 snaps, that was our lowest rushing yards against game of the season. In comparison, Spikes played the highest percent of the teams snaps in week 5 (79.3%), week 7 (72.2%), week 8 (77.5%), and week 12 (75.5%) which were the most yards allowed in games this season.

So, were they playing Spikes instead of Collins for his playing in space, or his pass coverage?

Brady6 · Mar 4, 2014

RayClay said:
So, were they playing Spikes instead of Collins for his playing in space, or his pass coverage?

They were playing Spikes over Collins because Spikes was a four year starter and Collins was rookie who was extremely raw and took some time grasp the NFL.

RayClay · Mar 4, 2014

Brady6 said:
They were playing Spikes over Collins because Spikes was a four year starter and Collins was rookie who was extremely raw and took some time grasp the NFL.

They weren't playing him because he was good against the run?

Also, Siliga has only played 6 games in his career between here and Denver and had no training camp here. Why didn't they play Sopoaga ahead of him, he's a 139 game NFL player.

BradyFTW! · Mar 4, 2014

It's pretty much impossible for he and Hightower to be on the field at the same time without leaving a gaping hole in the middle of the field. I'm not happy that he's gone, but with the current roster configuration, it was pretty unlikely that he would stay.

RayClay · Mar 4, 2014

BradyFTW! said:
It's pretty much impossible for he and Hightower to be on the field at the same time without leaving a gaping hole in the middle of the field. I'm not happy that he's gone, but with the current roster configuration, it was pretty unlikely that he would stay.

I did think their linebacker corps was unbalanced when healthy and maybe BB was looking past Spikes when he drafted Hightower. I'm going to miss those hits, though, and the guy is genuinely funny if you read his twitter.

On the other hand, inject Collins into the mix with a healthy Spikes and you've got a tremendous 4 man LB rotation, if they choose to and can afford it.

Deus Irae · Mar 4, 2014

BradyFTW! said:
It's pretty much impossible for he and Hightower to be on the field at the same time without leaving a gaping hole in the middle of the field. I'm not happy that he's gone, but with the current roster configuration, it was pretty unlikely that he would stay.

I'm with you on this, and I'm trying not to overthink this.

In a 3-4

Mayo
Ninkovich
Spikes
Hightower

works, and you bring in a cover LB in sub packages.

In a 4-3

Mayo
Spikes
Hightower

is a 10 yard completion to the RBs just waiting to happen.

50-yard-line · Mar 4, 2014

Deus Irae said:
I'm with you on this, and I'm trying not to overthink this.

In a 3-4

Mayo
Ninkovich
Spikes
Hightower

works, and you bring in a cover LB in sub packages.

In a 4-3

Mayo
Spikes
Hightower

is a 10 yard completion to the RBs just waiting to happen.

What would the Pats need to go back to a true 3-4? Rotating Nink back to LB and bringing in...say Bryant? Houston? Griffen?

And would they also need an LB like Jackson to round it out?

The dreaded "source": Spikes and Pats ain't sayin' **** to each other

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