Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassment'

goheels22002 said:

Richard Seymour is precisely the kind of guy who would stand up to Incognito, and would have gotten him kicked off the Patriots if they'd brought him in. I cannot imagine Incognito making it out of training camp on a Patriots team with Dante Scarnecchia, Matt Light, Stephen Neal, Logan Mankins, Vince Wilfork, Willie McGinest, Roosevelt Colvin, etc, etc, - men who would never be intimidated by him physically nor stand for his behavior and who would get him cut.

Click to expand...

Within the commentary of the intimate knowledge you have about the character, integrity and personality of all these guys you have never met but like the way they play football you left out Aaron Hernnadez. Too bad Darren Sharper wasn't a Patriot, you could have included him too.

Fixit said:

And another thing ... this thing about it being okay because it's an NFL locker room filled with the manliest of men is so stupid it hurts. The U.S. freakin' military trains (mostly) men to kill in a variety of ways, and they don't put up with harassment. Period. It's part of training, there are constant refresher courses. So get over this notion that an NFL locker room is exempt from laws, or even decency, because they have a highly aggressive job.

Click to expand...

If you don't attempt to understand an opinion that varies from yours, and immediately assume it is 180 degrees different, you make posts like this.

dizi24 said:

Why do you keep putting everything back on Martin? You keep saying Martin never said to stop. So what? All the evidence shows Incognito knew EXACTLY what he was doing. The raise to the other O-Line members in the fine book, the texts to Pouncey trying to cover it up, it all shows he knew it was wrong. It's like saying the girl never said "stop," even when the guy knew it wasn't welcomed. It's one thing if Incognito was just a victim of not being able to read Martin, but he KNEW what he was doing to Martin.

And on the suicide, again he knew Martin was suicidal.

Quit the victim blaming.

Click to expand...

Before you blame Incognito, you may want to look at the structure in place in that Dolphins organization.

There is a reason you have a team captain, a coach, and so and on and forth, to keep players in line.

None of them, to my knowledge, did anything about the situation.

That is essentially giving Incognito a green light, and telling him what he did was okay, and it's okay to keep doing it.

Human beings, at the right time, in the right place, will do anything. After all, we're only human.

I haven't really read the texts- so much of it is out of context so it's hard to interpret them, on top of which it's hard to read emotion and intent in text messages.

primetime said:

I'm not racist/homophobic/misogynistic/whatever, I have a _______ friend!

It's the oldest trope in the book. And if you're using it you're almost certainly trying to justify the fact that you're hateful.

Click to expand...

Stop the BS The guy said he has a Korean friend in order to explain their relationship and compare it to the assistant trainer.
Why people on this board insist on doing crap like this is beyond me.

primetime said:

Actually, no, having no friends of any given race wouldn't mean that unless you were actively avoiding interacting with people of a given race, creed, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, or whatever. Often by circumstance the people in our circles look similar to one another.

Click to expand...

Actually, yes. It's done time after time.

primetime said:

Racism and homophobia are real issues to identify and overcome, not hand grenades to be thrown into an enemy camp. Pointing these things out and then using it as a way to justify hateful behavior is, in fact, more than just pointing it out.

Click to expand...

Nowadays, charges of racism are usually wildly overblown, usually used as a weapon, and are generally one of the more cynical avenues exploited by the left. Homophobia isn't even a proper term for what it's used for.

In short, and to repeat, your earlier post was ridiculous. Your follow up isn't much better, given how much of obvious reality it denies.

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

The player known as “Player A” in the 144-page document has identified himself as Andrew McDonald.

McDonald, who came forward because it already was becoming widely known that his McDonald was the unnamed player, expressed disappointment regarding the attachment of his name to the situation.

McDonald’s agent, Brett Tessler, forwarded to PFT a statement regarding the situation.

“Andrew is disappointed that his name has become associated with this story,” Tessler said. “He’s been a member of another organization since last season and is trying to focus on the future. When Ted Wells approached Andrew at the end of the investigation, Mr. Wells already had all the information contained in the report that he had gotten elsewhere. While Andrew can’t speak for any other players involved in the report, he personally has no problem with the Miami Dolphins organization and has the highest opinion of Coach [Jim] Turner both personally and professionally and feels terrible about the way their relationship has been portrayed in the report.”

Click to expand...

Andrew McDonald, unnamed Player A, has ?no problem? with Dolphins organization | ProFootballTalk

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

All those who have said this is normal NFL locker room behavior, Martin is soft for not standing up for himself and it reflects on his ability to play football, it was "good natured ribbing," etc. should read Mark Schlereths article:

Schlereth: Don't lose crucial parts of 'the code' in NFL locker rooms - ESPN

Although, he only won 3 superbowl and went to 2 probowls. He was probably jus too soft as well

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

Deus Irae said:

Actually, yes. It's done time after time.



Nowadays, charges of racism are usually wildly overblown, usually used as a weapon, and are generally one of the more cynical avenues exploited by the left. Homophobia isn't even a proper term for what it's used for.

In short, and to repeat, your earlier post was ridiculous. Your follow up isn't much better, given how much of obvious reality it denies.

Click to expand...

Charges of racism are usually wildly overblown and usually exploited as a weapon by the Left???

:blink:

I physically shuddered at the thought that came over me while reading that gem of a statement: What if Harry Boy was an alt of his? :andjesuswept:

Only the most narrow minded and whitest of insular males would make that kind of blanket statement -and be so goddamn patronizing while doing so.

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

Deus Irae said:

Andrew McDonald, unnamed Player A, has ?no problem? with Dolphins organization | ProFootballTalk

Click to expand...

What else is he going to do? He's a first year player who's signed to a futures contract with the Panthers, which means his lifeline is a 5 pound test line.

He's certainly going to keep his mouth shut.

That organization knew exactly what it was getting when it chose to draft Incognito. So while Incognito's behavior was inexcusable, the behavior of the Dolphins organization was far worse.

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

dizi24 said:

All those who have said this is normal NFL locker room behavior, Martin is soft for not standing up for himself and it reflects on his ability to play football, it was "good natured ribbing," etc. should read Mark Schlereths article:

Schlereth: Don't lose crucial parts of 'the code' in NFL locker rooms - ESPN

Although, he only won 3 superbowl and went to 2 probowls. He was probably jus too soft as well

Click to expand...

Great article! Thanks for sharing the link!

Have you ever been scared or embarrassed to the point of paralysis? Where do you turn when you feel you have nowhere to turn? In whom do you confide when it seems everyone is against you? What is the "correct" response in those situations? I had nowhere to turn and no fellow students or other teachers to support me or help me. I couldn't even turn to my parents because I felt like I had failed them. I was alone.

In a different setting, but one with many similarities, Jonathan Martin walked out. Looking back, I wish I'd had the courage to do the same. Maybe that would have brought the attention that my situation needed for things to be set straight.

Click to expand...

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

And speaking of well written articles. Here is one that I feel epitomizes the driving forces behind the behavior of every football fan.

It is also very appropriate to the discussion at hand in my opinion.

Humans are (very) tribal by nature.

Humans are ethnocentric by nature. This doesn't excuse racism, but it should explain how easily and readily humans are apt to fall into racism (yes, it exists) even in the modern world. An no, it is not simply a tool used by the Left.

BIOLOGIST E.O. WILSON ON WHY HUMANS, LIKE ANTS, NEED A TRIBE

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

I'm not racist, I know a black person

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

I'm not sexist ...I jerkoff twice a week...uh...oh wait....:bricks:

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

KontradictioN said:

Exactly. My father is a Marine, my uncle was a Marine, I have two cousins that are Marines, and I've worked, known, and am still friends with several of them. They all bust balls. They all put down using race and sexual innuendo on a consistent basis. Where the OP of that post was going, I have no idea. It's pretty clear that he's just reading press statements and taking them as fact with little to no real world experience with servicemen. Military servicemen, especially Marines, are some of the harshest people I've ever been around when it comes to busting their friends' balls. At the same time, if that friend was in a fight or needed help, those same servicemen would absolutely be the first one to help.

Click to expand...

I'm a war historian and I will tell you what, Marines take a road in life that is hard for me to fathom. I have a lot of respect, tons of it -- the island hopping campaign of WWII to Khe Sahn to Ganjgal.
My son's best friend went into the Marines about 2 years ago. He was at my house so much he was like one of my own. It was a shock to see him go into the Marines. He was bright and articulate to a fairly rare degree, someone who was probably a shoe in for a top tier university.
After a couple of weeks of boot camp it was very tough to read his letters to us. We just didn't think he was going to make it. To hear him say it, it was worse than incognito/Martin on nearly a daily basis. A constant challenge to the mental/physical. He made it though though....
After he deployed to Afghanistan and was there for a few months, he took a vastly different view of boot camp. Put it this way, he now understood why it was harsh beyond description. This is not to equate it to saying the Phins teammates were right to act as they did with Martin, it's to say the hyper macho and cruel environment our young marine recruit endured made him well prepared for what awaited him in Afghanistan.

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

dizi24 said:

All those who have said this is normal NFL locker room behavior, Martin is soft for not standing up for himself and it reflects on his ability to play football, it was "good natured ribbing," etc. should read Mark Schlereths article:

Schlereth: Don't lose crucial parts of 'the code' in NFL locker rooms - ESPN

Although, he only won 3 superbowl and went to 2 probowls. He was probably jus too soft as well

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. Good read. Especially the conclusion:

I'm left with this conclusion about the Dolphins organization from the coaching staff on down:

They were either complicit, incompetent or, worse, both.

Click to expand...

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

Danger Zone said:

And speaking of well written articles. Here is one that I feel epitomizes the driving forces behind the behavior of every football fan.

It is also very appropriate to the discussion at hand in my opinion.

Humans are (very) tribal by nature.

Humans are ethnocentric by nature. This doesn't excuse racism, but it should explain how easily and readily humans are apt to fall into racism (yes, it exists) even in the modern world. An no, it is not simply a tool used by the Left.

BIOLOGIST E.O. WILSON ON WHY HUMANS, LIKE ANTS, NEED A TRIBE

Click to expand...

We are social beings, and as part of that, most of us need the love and recognition of others to be truly happy and achieve our potential. I would like to refer you to Maslow's Pyramid. Although it is over-simplistic, it is easy to understand and has relevance about individual's development and their happiness. The further we get from natural selection's power over our development, the less relevant such things will be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

Good lord this thread is an embarrassment. I'm actually embarrassed I root for the same team as some of you people. Some behavior should not be tolerated. I would hope as people age and mature they would come to realize how they acted at 20 is not the same way they should act at 30. And the fact that people are defending being racist, bigoted, and homophobic is disgusting. Who cares if that is the way it is? At some point people have to say enough and end it. By defending it you are part of the problem that is allowing it to continue.

And some of the personal anecdotes are truly disturbing. There is no way I would ever stand (let alone laugh) for anyone saying anything about my dead mother and If a friend said it I would probably be in jail. You have a truly messed up friendship if you allow them to get away with some **** like that.

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

Unfortunately this link will be burried under at least 38 pages of posts. Teddy Bruschi has some good thoughts on this.

Wells report reveals how Richie Incognito's bullying warped Jonathan Martin's perspective - ESPN

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

pwes said:

Good lord this thread is an embarrassment. I'm actually embarrassed I root for the same team as some of you people. Some behavior should not be tolerated. I would hope as people age and mature they would come to realize how they acted at 20 is not the same way they should act at 30. And the fact that people are defending being racist, bigoted, and homophobic is disgusting. Who cares if that is the way it is? At some point people have to say enough and end it. By defending it you are part of the problem that is allowing it to continue.

And some of the personal anecdotes are truly disturbing. There is no way I would ever stand (let alone laugh) for anyone saying anything about my dead mother and If a friend said it I would probably be in jail. You have a truly messed up friendship if you allow them to get away with some **** like that.

Click to expand...

Lighten up Francis. Just because you would get your panties in a twist over a joke, doesn't mean that everyone else would or should.

Re: Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassmen

Nice read from Greg Bedard:

Ted Wells Report: A Case Study in Locker-Room Cutlur Gone Wrong | The MMQB with Peter King