Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassment'

Dagg said:

For those that think BB has a total command on our locker room and this isn't occurring on some levels is really clueless.

The locker room is captain territory.

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Belichick said:

I’ve had a lot of great captains through my time here with the Patriots. Those guys are not only great players and great leaders and workers, but they also have a very good sense of what’s right and what’s wrong for the group, for the team in the locker room. A lot of times they can see things that are potentially coming over the horizon that are better to address before they become a problem than after something happens and then there’s hard feelings or maybe a misinterpretation of something.

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ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

It's also absolutely possible that the Packers' room is the norm and your **** waving about playing high school football was silly. None of us have any idea what life is like in those locker rooms. We're all making judgements based on our own experiences rather than direct experiences. We're talking about an adult having his livelihood effed with because a few guys didn't know when enough was enough. Honestly I don't care what the norm is, and I have a far bigger issue with the Phins' coaches than I do with the players TBH.

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sieglo said:

I hear BB lets his players get away with murder.

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Patsrock said:

You have to get the person to truly open up to you. And yes you have to tippy toe around the person with your comments and jokes. Once a person says they are having suicidal thoughts you get that person help right away. Go to coaching staff,gm or even go get that person to the hospital right away yourself.

When a person is in that mind frame anything not encouraging can be a catalyst for self destruction.

I don't think sports do anywhere near a good enough job with mental health.

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Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey admitted that they directed racially derogatory words toward him, including "Jap" and "Chinaman." At times, according to Martin, they referred to the Assistant Trainer as a "dirty communist" or a "North Korean," made demands such as "give me some water you ****ing chink," spoke to him in a phony, mocking Asian accent, including asking for "rubby rubby sucky sucky," and called his mother a "rub and tug masseuse." Martin and others informed us that Incognito and Jerry taunted the Assistant Trainer with jokes about having sex with his girlfriend. Incognito admitted that these types of comments were made to the Assistant Trainer.

On December 7, 2012 (the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor), Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey donned traditional Japanese headbands that featured a rising sun emblem and jokingly threatened to harm the Assistant Trainer physically in retaliation for the Pearl Harbor attack. Martin reported that the Assistant Trainer confided to him that he was upset about the Pearl Harbor prank, finding it derogatory and demeaning.

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Snake Eyes said:

Wonderful comment, nice to see you're not classless like Incognito.

It was up to Martin to tell others he thought they crossed the line, he didn't. If that's too much for him he should go elsewhere, maybe he'll get that opportunity.

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BradyManny said:

First off, I love all the former pop warner stars in this thread chiming in here as if their locker room compares to one in an organization worth $1.5 billion. Your high school and college locker rooms didn't have 35 year old men making $20 million as teammates. It's a little different. There's a substantial difference in maturity and responsibility.

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BradyFTW! said:

My freshman year of college, one of my good friends from childhood/high school committed suicide. It turned out that she had been suffering from depression all along, and we didn't know about it. We all took it pretty hard and wondered if we could have done more to prevent it. In hindsight, sure, we totally could have, but I don't think anyone really blamed themselves. You can't realistically go through life walking on eggshells, assuming that every seemingly-okay person that you talk to may be suicidal and in need of help.

Two years later, her best friend, who was another friend of mine, also committed suicide. Still not sure why he did it: he saw the fallout that his best friend's suicide caused, and what it did to her family and friends. Ever since then, I've wondered why they didn't say anything to anyone, especially the second guy. He had been on the other side of the equation, and knew exactly how badly the friends wish, after the fact, that they had known so that they could have done something. If he's said anything at all, any one of us would have dropped whatever we were doing without a second thought and done just about anything to help him out.

Maybe that's why I have such a hard time accepting that, after being told that his alleged friend was contemplating suicide, Incognito continued being such a relentless **** to the guy that he drove him to seek refuge in a hospital. Not only that, but he had an ongoing bet over whether or not he could 'break' the guy (which he very clearly did).

If your friend admits to you that he/she is contemplating suicide, then you should consider yourself lucky. They're reaching out, and that means that you have a chance to actually help them. In my experience, suicidal people very frequently don't reach out, out of fear that they'll be labeled in all of the same ways that people are labeling Jonathan Martin on this thread (thin-skinned, weak, unmanly). And that's not speculation - that's what survivors of suicide attempts, including yet another one of my good friends, consistently report.

The bottom line is that Incognito is very, very lucky that Martin didn't kill himself, because he would justifiably be feeling like a pretty awful person if things had gone a little differently. The fact that he responded to his friend's admission that he was contemplating suicide in such an awful way--one of the worst ways possible--frankly, should be self-evidently appalling to just about everyone.

I don't think anyone here is claiming that Incognito should have read Martin's mind. What we're claiming is that, once he was made aware that Martin was contemplating suicide, regardless of the reason, he should have made damn sure that he was doing everything that he could to support to guy through a tough time in his life. In other words, he should have done the exact opposite of keeping a running bet over whether or not he could 'break' him.

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KontradictioN said:

Or he could have done what most people do when they get tired of a bully: clocked Incognito in the face. Instead, Martin exchanged those same messages with him until he snapped. If Martin's play on the field didn't tell you that he's soft, this should.

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KontradictioN said:

Or he could have done what most people do when they get tired of a bully: clocked Incognito in the face. Instead, Martin exchanged those same messages with him until he snapped. If Martin's play on the field didn't tell you that he's soft, this should.

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Nunchucks said:

Blaming the victim is de facto defending the offender.

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"Dolphins’ Offensive Line Coach Jim Turner was aware of the running “joke” that Player A was gay, and on at least one occasion, he participated in the taunting. Around Christmas 2012, Coach Turner gave the offensive linemen gift bags that included a variety of stocking stuffers. The gifts included inflatable female dolls for all of the offensive linemen except Player A, who received a male “blow-up” doll. Martin and another player reported that they were surprised Coach Turner did this; Martin further said that he was offended that Turner had endorsed the humiliating treatment of Player A by participating in it. Incognito and others agreed that this incident with Coach Turner occurred. When interviewed, Turner was asked if he gave Player A a male blow-up doll. He replied, “I can’t remember.” We do not believe that Turner forgot this incident, which many others recalled. "

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KontradictioN said:

Or he could have done what most people do when they get tired of a bully: clocked Incognito in the face. Instead, Martin exchanged those same messages with him until he snapped. If Martin's play on the field didn't tell you that he's soft, this should.

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BradyManny said:

Belichick picks the captains. And he sets the culture. It's the same thing. He doesn't have to be there 24/7. Every player that's come through that place says Belichick runs a tight ship. I don't think I'm clueless to point to that as evidence that disruptive hazing wouldn't fly on his squad.



First off, I love all the former pop warner stars in this thread chiming in here as if their locker room compares to one in an organization worth $1.5 billion. Your high school and college locker rooms didn't have 35 year old men making $20 million as teammates. It's a little different. There's a substantial difference in maturity and responsibility.
===
Belichick:
I’ve had a lot of great captains through my time here with the Patriots. Those guys are not only great players and great leaders and workers, but they also have a very good sense of what’s right and what’s wrong for the group, for the team in the locker room. A lot of times they can see things that are potentially coming over the horizon that are better to address before they become a problem than after something happens and then there’s hard feelings or maybe a misinterpretation of something.
===
Besides, more NFL players have said that this was over-the-top than not. I'll take that for what it's worth.

I also like how you pretty much rip on everyone for being sissies in this thread, but than come to the same exact conclusion as most of us that some of this stuff is normal, but this was over the line.

I think what's happened here is we have a lot of people coming the rational conclusion that there is blame on all sides, and that Incognito displayed an over-the-top, and ultimately unacceptable, form of something that is pretty common in locker rooms. But we have people either too insecure or too afraid to just to say it like that, and instead have to blame the victim and make sure they aren't confused with all of these naive people that don't know people pick on each other in a locker room.

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Patsrock said:

Actually most people don't hit back or fight back. They get in to deep of depression to fight back.

Stop with this soft ****. It is not that simple.

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Patsrock said:

Actually most people don't hit back or fight back. They get in to deep of depression to fight back.

Stop with this soft ****. It is not that simple.

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primetime said:

I'm not sure why punching a 350 lb mound of rage and hate who is using physical as well as verbal intimidation would be considered a mature or responsible response to this sort of behavior to anyone but internet tough guys.

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BradyFTW! said:

The counterclaim to that is that someone who doesn't hit back or fight back may not be suited to playing in the NFL. It's not a totally unreasonable position to take, since every NFL player is in constant high-level competition the likes of which we really can't identify with. Being thick-skinned and able to shrug off nonconstructive criticism is a real asset.

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dizi24 said:

If you read the report, Martins and others were picked on BECAUSE they were quiet. In other words, Icognito and Pouncey picked on players because they knew they wouldn't fight back.

Just because Martin is above punching his own teammate doesn't make him soft.

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