2014 Draft Prospect Thread

Snake Eyes said:

It'd be interesting to do a study of an accomplished swimmer who gets by on incredible athleticism despite poor fundamentals, and they try to train them the right way.

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I do triathlons and always considered myself a very good swimmer. About 3.5 years ago I went and took a masters swimming class. There was this guy there who had 15 years on me and probably 25 pounds even though he was 3 inches shorter. I thought to myself well at least I'll be faster than this guy. I spoke to the coach and got in the slowest of the 6 lanes which happened to be right next to the fastest lane. Imagine my surprise when he hopped in the fast lane. He was so much faster than I was it wasn't funny. He was doing 100 yard intervals 40 seconds faster than I was and he was barely breathing and I was about to chuck up a lung.

I spoke to him the next time and commented on how fast he was and he laughed and said ya I bet you thought you would smoke me and you would if we were running or biking but I started swimming competitively at 7 years old and had the form drilled into me all the way through high school and college were I swam for the schools I went to.

3.5 years later my form is much better and I'll get out of the water after an interval breathing about the same as he does but he's still 15 seconds per hundred better than I am. I now know that if we bike an hour sprint I'm 3 MPH faster than he is and if we run a 5K I run at 6:30 pace and he runs at 9:30 but in the water I'll never catch the guy. Part of it is he's genetically a better swimmer but a lot is form. His is just perfect and I still struggle with it at times.

Lawrence Virgil - Valdosta State

Anyone know anything about this kid??? His measurables pop off the page as a 5-t option.

Get it shawtaay said:

Lawrence Virgil - Valdosta State

Anyone know anything about this kid??? His measurables pop off the page as a 5-t option.

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I know that the chance of BB picking up a kid from Valdosta State (even as a UDFA) is unfortunately about the chance of my going outside to work on my tan today. Other than that, not much, but he sounds intriguing.

mayoclinic said:

I know that the chance of BB picking up a kid from Valdosta State (even as a UDFA) is unfortunately about the chance of my going outside to work on my tan today. Other than that, not much, but he sounds intriguing.

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We drafted Markell Carter, did we not? I think UDFA is a possibility if he's got talent. Anyway I can't find video of him playing.

OLB Tyler Starr of South Dakota apparently ran a 6.29 3 cone at training. Which would have broken the combine record. At 6-4 and 250, don't discount him as a future Patriot. Also was the Nation's career leader in forced fumbles (13), second in the nation for solo TFLs (39) and fourth in sacks (27).


Tyler Starr | South Dakota, OLB : 2014 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

manxman2601 said:

OLB Tyler Starr of South Dakota apparently ran a 6.29 3 cone at training. Which would have broken the combine record. At 6-4 and 250, don't discount him as a future Patriot. Also was the Nation's career leader in forced fumbles (13), second in the nation for solo TFLs (39) and fourth in sacks (27).

Tyler Starr*|*South Dakota,*OLB*:*2014 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

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Stelfans already mentioned Starr on the Mock draft thread. Very, very interesting. Very interesting.

From Bruce Feldman (of "physical freak" fame):

"I like him a lot," said one NFL scout. "He's tall, long and extremely athletic and plays with a high motor. I'd heard some chatter about him this fall and went to see him, and he's way more athletic than I thought he'd be. You still wonder if he has enough power and strength at the point of attack right now to be an every-down guy, but he really has a knack for rushing the passer and he has some real third-down value."

Word is, Starr should turn heads at the combine, not just for the long blonde hair that he hasn't cut since his freshman year at USD. Starr says he hass clocked a three-cone drill time of 6.29 in his training sessions in Tennessee. For comparison's sake, the fastest time in Indy last year was 6.52 by cornerback Will Davis from Utah. Oregon WR Jeff Maehl clocked a 6.42 in 2011, which the NFL considers its recent best. The fastest time by a linebacker last year was 6.71 by Mizzou's Zavier Gooden.

"I think I can blow that drill out of the water," Starr told CBSSports.com on Tuesday night. Even if he's anywhere near that mark, his stock should continue to rise.

"Tyler's mobility for his size is unbelievable," said Scott Reall at D1 Sports Training in Tennessee, who has worked with Starr the past two months. "Once I've been able to teach him proper technique and steps, he's been brushing all-time records in the [three-cone] L-drill. His ability to explode off a change of direction and not lose a lot of time is remarkable. He is just so explosive. The first time everybody saw it here, people were like 'Holy crap!'"

Reall, who is also training more than a dozen other football players including guys from the SEC and Big Ten, says Starr's 6.29 time is legit.

"I timed it myself twice, and also had another coach time it and he hit the same number."

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Small school Starr ready to shine at NFL scouting combine - CBSSports.com

Good find. Yummm.

A 6'4" 250# LB with unreal explosiveness and agility? Where have I heard that one before?

mayoclinic said:

Stelfans already mentioned Starr on the Mock draft thread. Very, very interesting. Very interesting.

From Bruce Feldman (of "physical freak" fame):



Small school Starr ready to shine at NFL scouting combine - CBSSports.com

Good find. Yummm.

A 6'4" 250# LB with unreal explosiveness and agility? Where have I heard that one before?

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A tearful farewell to Marcus Smith and a hello to Tyler Starr for my next mock probably. One discount's the 3cone at one's peril when it comes to a BB pick (see Logan Ryan and Josh Boyce last year).

manxman2601 said:

A tearful farewell to Marcus Smith and a hello to Tyler Starr for my next mock probably. One discount's the 3cone at one's peril when it comes to a BB pick (see Logan Ryan and Josh Boyce last year).

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I'd be thrilled to get Smith/Christian Jones day 2 and Starr day 3. That meets my "tons of speed on defense" equation.

My new dream:

- Address Wilfork situation, re-sign Talib, and sign a TE like Pettigrew/Gresham (if cut) in FA.

1. DT Jernigan/Hageman/Donald (sounds like a Law Firm).
2. LB Smith/Jones.
- trade 3 for a 4th and 5th.
4a. C Marcus Martin.
4b. TE Richard Rodgers.
6. DE Brent Urban or Taylor Hart.
6. DB Antone Exum.
5 (comp). LB Tyler Starr.
7. DB Dontae Johnson / Jonathan Dowling.

manxman2601 said:

A tearful farewell to Marcus Smith and a hello to Tyler Starr for my next mock probably. One discount's the 3cone at one's peril when it comes to a BB pick (see Logan Ryan and Josh Boyce last year).

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Good timing I was just watching Starr this afternoon. That is an insane time for his size. I wonder how high Bill will pull the trigger on a small school guy like that?

everlong said:

Good timing I was just watching Starr this afternoon. That is an insane time for his size. I wonder how high Bill will pull the trigger on a small school guy like that?

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Who knows with BB. I was just watching his tape to. Have to confess, I wasn't hugely impressed but one could certainly see his athleticism. Mind you, I wasn't overly impressed by Jamie Collins' tape either.

manxman2601 said:

Who knows with BB. I was just watching his tape to. Have to confess, I wasn't hugely impressed but one could certainly see his athleticism. Mind you, I wasn't overly impressed by Jamie Collins' tape either.

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I just watched the tape and a big meh from me too. For all the talk of his mobility I thought he looked slow and unathletic in coverage, looked better going forwards. He was routinely pushed back off the ball and missed tackles too. Seemed to have a bit of pass rush ability though.

That said, might be worth a 7th round flier if he can be coached up.

Whereas with Marcus Smith I wasn't impressed with his pass rushing but he looked competitive in coverage for a guy his size.

manxman2601 said:

Who knows with BB. I was just watching his tape to. Have to confess, I wasn't hugely impressed but one could certainly see his athleticism. Mind you, I wasn't overly impressed by Jamie Collins' tape either.

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I would say higher than you might think, but not insanely high.

As a case in point, consider Nate Ebner:
40: 4.55 s
Bench: 23
Broad jump: 10'8"
Vertical: 39"
Short shuttle: 4.04
Three-cone: 6.59

I could see Belichick deciding he's worth a 5 or even a 4.

ctpatsfan77 said:

I would say higher than you might think, but not insanely high.

As a case in point, consider Nate Ebner:
40: 4.55 s
Bench: 23
Broad jump: 10'8"
Vertical: 39"
Short shuttle: 4.04
Three-cone: 6.59

I could see Belichick deciding he's worth a 5 or even a 4.

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If Starr shows anything close to Collins' explosiveness along with a great 3-cone, I'd be happy to see us take him in the third. I want two year one/two starters in the first two rounds but after that, anything's fair game and Starr falls into the "draft what you can't coach" category. But this dependent on excelling at more than just the three cone. If it's just that that he's got then I agree on him being a day three pick at best. I do think Starr needs to add about 10lb though. Looked to struggle at times in the run game. He certainly flashed some really strong play though.

zimmy said:

I just watched the tape and a big meh from me too. For all the talk of his mobility I thought he looked slow and unathletic in coverage, looked better going forwards. He was routinely pushed back off the ball and missed tackles too. Seemed to have a bit of pass rush ability though.

That said, might be worth a 7th round flier if he can be coached up.

Whereas with Marcus Smith I wasn't impressed with his pass rushing but he looked competitive in coverage for a guy his size.

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I thought Starr flashed a decent bull rush and did a really nice job splitting some double teams. I can see what you mean about his athleticism but there were some flashes of plus athleticism there I thought at times. I would certainly liked to have seen him dominate much more than he did. There was one outstanding play in the Youngstown game where he blew up a QB roll out to the right.

As for Smith, his speed to the QB is amazing. If he's unblocked, Smith is getting to the QB period. But I agree that he doesn't have the all round pass rushing moves to be a regular pass rusher. An SLB/WLB that blitzes a lot is how I'd like to see him used.

ctpatsfan77 said:

I would say higher than you might think, but not insanely high.

As a case in point, consider Nate Ebner:
40: 4.55 s
Bench: 23
Broad jump: 10'8"
Vertical: 39"
Short shuttle: 4.04
Three-cone: 6.59

I could see Belichick deciding he's worth a 5 or even a 4.

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manxman2601 said:

If Starr shows anything close to Collins' explosiveness along with a great 3-cone, I'd be happy to see us take him in the third. I want two year one/two starters in the first two rounds but after that, anything's fair game and Starr falls into the "draft what you can't coach" category.

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I'm going to assume that Starr will show exceptional athleticism at the Combine. But that only goes so far. There are tons of guys with freakish athleticism who struggle in the NFL:

- Lawrence Okoye. 6' 5 1/4" 304# DT and former Olympian with no prior football experience; 4.84 40, 1.67 10 yard split, 36" vertical. Went undrafted in 2013, put on IR by the 49ers, has yet to play a snap in a regular season game.
- Brandin Hardin, Oregon St. 6'3" 217# DB; 4.43 40, 1.52 10 yard split. 6.88 3-cone, 35.5" vertical, 24 reps@225. Went in the 3rd round in 2012, since cut by Chicago, now on the Jets. Has yet to play a regular season snap in 2 full seasons.
- Louis Ngwezu, Wisconsin. 6' 3 7/8" 252# DE; 4.60 40, 1.60 10 yard split, 6.84 3-cone, 41.5" vertical. Went undrafted in 2012, currently with Carolina, has yet to play a snap in a regular season game.
- Dale Moss, WR, South Dakota St. 6' 3 1/4" 213# former basketball player; 4.51 40, 1.61 10-yard split, 6.35 3-cone, 41.5" vertical. Went undrafted in 2012. Has been signed and waived by 4 NFL teams (GB, Tampa Bay, Chicago and Carolina), now with an Arena Football team. Did not play a regular season snap in 2 years.

All 4 of those guys were high on my radar, but only 1 was drafted, and none has played a meaningful NFL snap despite 7 cumulative seasons.

And as CTpatsfan notes, Nate Ebner has raw athleticism comparable to guys like Kenny Vaccaro, as well as a high motor and background in rugby; he's excelled as a special teamer, but in 2 years hasn't made a ton of progress as a rotational safety.

Starr has been productive at the small school level, which distinguishes him from some (but not all) of the guys listed above; but whether he takes a huge jump at the pro level is a big risk. I'd say day 3, but I wouldn't personally go to the 3rd round based on athleticism alone. Maybe 4th, but 5th-7th seems more likely, if not UDFA.

By all means I hope the Pats check him out thoroughly, and consider him in the late rounds or as a UDFA if they like him. But I wouldn't spend a 3rd-4th round pick on him unless I was convinced he was the "real deal" and not a developmental prospect. That's possible (there are always guys like Jahri Evans and Jared Veldheer out there), but seems a bit unlikely right now.

manxman2601 said:

A tearful farewell to Marcus Smith and a hello to Tyler Starr for my next mock probably. One discount's the 3cone at one's peril when it comes to a BB pick (see Logan Ryan and Josh Boyce last year).

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I think BB's love of the three cone, especially with wr's, is overplayed. I often read he values that over 40 times, which I believe is nonsense. If you look at wr's he drafts, he wants speed and 3 cone, if anything with an emphasis on speed. Dobson ran a 4.4. Boyce ran a 4.34. Price ran a 4.4. chad Jackson was one of the fastest guys at the combine. Bethel Johnson was blazing. Deion Branch ran a 4.4. You would be hard pressed to find a guy he drafts at wr that does not have straight line speed in addition to quick cut ability.

As for db's, he does seem to value that over straight line speed. I have no idea what he is looking for any more in linebackers other than tall and big/heavy.

manxman2601 said:

OLB Tyler Starr of South Dakota apparently ran a 6.29 3 cone at training. Which would have broken the combine record. At 6-4 and 250, don't discount him as a future Patriot. Also was the Nation's career leader in forced fumbles (13), second in the nation for solo TFLs (39) and fourth in sacks (27).


Tyler Starr*|*South Dakota,*OLB*:*2014 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

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THIS is why I don't want Lyerla in the 7th! Why spend a pick on someone who doesn't have the presence of mind to know that getting busted with coke might not be the best thing for enhancing his draft status when I can use that pick on this guy, Zach Kerr, or Chris Burnette?

Snake Eyes said:

THIS is why I don't want Lyerla in the 7th! Why spend a pick on someone who doesn't have the presence of mind to know that getting busted with coke might not be the best thing for enhancing his draft status when I can use that pick on this guy, Zach Kerr, or Chris Burnette?

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I would prefer any of the above (including Lyerla) to taking a ST-only player or a guy with limited athletic ability and upside. Alfonzo Dennard, Julian Edelman and Michael Buchanan have been outstanding 7th round picks; hopefully we'll get someone like those guys - a day 2 prospect who falls, or a conversion prospect with athleticism and upside.

Some guys I would love to see in the 7th:

- TE Colt Lyerla, Oregon
- QB/TE Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech
- DE/TE Larry Webster, Bloomsburg
- DT Zach Kerr, Delaware
- LB Tyler Starr, South Dakota
- DB Jonathan Dowling, Western Kentucky
- DB Dontae Johnson, North Carolina St.
- RB Zac Bauman, Northern Arizona

mayoclinic said:

I would prefer any of the above (including Lyerla) to taking a ST-only player or a guy with limited athletic ability and upside. Alfonzo Dennard, Julian Edelman and Michael Buchanan have been outstanding 7th round picks; hopefully we'll get someone like those guys - a day 2 prospect who falls, or a conversion prospect with athleticism and upside.

Some guys I would love to see in the 7th:

- TE Colt Lyerla, Oregon
- QB/TE Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech
- DE/TE Larry Webster, Bloomsburg
- DT Zach Kerr, Delaware
- LB Tyler Starr, South Dakota
- DB Jonathan Dowling, Western Kentucky
- DB Dontae Johnson, North Carolina St.
- RB Zac Bauman, Northern Arizona

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Lorenzo Taliaffero is another late round binkie of mine.

Snake Eyes said:

Lorenzo Taliaffero is another late round binkie of mine.

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Me too.

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