People are more down on our offense than they should be.

PATS16N0 · Feb 8, 2014

2011 Superbowl - Injured Gronk.
2012 AFC Championship game - No Gronk.
2013 AFC Championship game - No Gronk.

I think a lot of Patriot fans are getting so used to being without Gronk that they've almost forgotten we have him on our roster. A lot of freaking out and panicking about our personnel on the offensive side of the ball and I think a lot of it is due to them visualizing what it looks like without our superstar TE.

Without those injuries, it's entirely possible Brady is winning ring #6 last weekend.

Gronk getting injured is almost as damaging as Brady getting injured, and if Brady was in Gronk's situation the last three years, I don't think people would be freaking about our offense like they have been. The discussion would lean more towards crying over our key injuries, which is what I usually do.

Denver had, statistically, the most productive offense in league history this year.

While Gronk was active, ours was statistically better.

So I'm not understanding the panic or the criticisms of Belichick's roster decisions or any of the rest of it.

It's the injuries, stupid.

Guts · Feb 8, 2014

I agree that the offense is fine if everyone is healthy, but the defense specially on third down needs to be addressed.

stinebot · Feb 8, 2014

Without a doubt, Gronk is a game changer. Unfortunately he seems to be, in the words of this board, made of glass.

The way things have gone, I don't expect to get a full season out of him again. I would love to be pleasantly surprised and see him last 16 games plus the playoffs without missing time due to injury. I just don't see it happening. You cannot count on someone being a person to base the offense around if they cannot get on the field. I'd much rather have a different plan in place and allow Gronk to compliment it when he is able to. Not base the entire offense around him and then flail around ineffectively when he can't play and have no other contingency plan.

I am not down on the offense at all. I think between Gronk, Amendola, Dobson, and Thompkins we are probably fine. They can't all get hurt again next season, right? If we can bring Edelman back all the better. Or if we can get a replacement for Edelman who actually picks up the offense, again that's a big plus. I am not worried about the offense at all. They will be fine.

I'm just not jumping on the Gronk for comeback player of the year/MVP/Super Bowl MVP bandwagon yet.

AQPE · Feb 8, 2014

PATS16N0 said:
2011 Superbowl - Injured Gronk.
2012 AFC Championship game - No Gronk.
2013 AFC Championship game - No Gronk.

I think a lot of Patriot fans are getting so used to being without Gronk that they've almost forgotten we have him on our roster. A lot of freaking out and panicking about our personnel on the offensive side of the ball and I think a lot of it is due to them visualizing what it looks like without our superstar TE.

Without those injuries, it's entirely possible Brady is winning ring #6 last weekend.

Gronk getting injured is almost as damaging as Brady getting injured, and if Brady was in Gronk's situation the last three years, I don't think people would be freaking about our offense like they have been. The disc ussion would lean more towards crying over our key injuries, which is what I usually do.

Denver had, statistically, the most productive offense in league history this year.

While Gronk was active, ours was statistically better.

So I'm not understanding the panic or the criticisms of Belichick's roster decisions or any of the rest of it.

It's the injuries, stupid.

I'm seeing a pattern here, and thus am concerned about relying on having Gronk at 100% next January - February. Without him at full strength and without <former employee #81>, with rookies that didn't prove much this year, possible Edelman departure, mediocre TE depth, and weakness at C and RG, chronic injuries to their starting RT, and concussion issues with their starting LT, and, oh yes, a 37 year old QB, there is good reason IMHO to worry about next year's offense.

PATS16N0 · Feb 8, 2014

Well, I understand the worries, but it's unfair to say he's made of glass after that hit to the knee he took. The guy got blasted right as his cleat dug into the turf. It was a brutal hit that truthfully made me wince and gasp as it happened.

2011 was our friend Pollard putting him in an ankle lock after a tackle.

2012 just seemed like really bad luck.

ctpatsfan77 · Feb 8, 2014

AQPE said:
I'm seeing a pattern here, and thus am concerned about relying on having Gronk at 100% next January - February. Without him at full strength and without <former employee #81>, with rookies that didn't prove much this year, possible Edelman departure, mediocre TE depth, and weakness at C and RG, chronic injuries to their starting RT, and concussion issues with their starting LT, and, oh yes, a 37 year old QB, there is good reason IMHO to worry about next year's offense.

Well, if the Pats can get more depth at TE, then they won't have to use GRONK on 80-90% of snaps, which will increase the likelihood he's still available in the playoffs.

And Edelman's future is something they can control.

AQPE · Feb 8, 2014

Well, I'm always pretty optimistic when it comes to the Pats, but I think they have a lot of issues with the offense. With that said, I agree it isn't fair to throw the "made of glass" thing at Gronk - in general I really don't think that's fair for anyone at the NFL level - and I will also agree with you in reference to this past season, the offense did get rolling when Gronk was in there this year, for sure. I guess I'm still disappointed about how things ended this season.

mayoclinic · Feb 8, 2014

PATS16N0 said:
It's the injuries, stupid.

But injuries to key personnel are a part of life in the NFL these days. Almost every team has lost significant personnel for part of the season, and all the playoff teams lost Pro Bowl level personnel for the playoffs:

- New England: Gronk, Wilfork, Mayo
- Denver: Ryan Clady, Von Miller; Chris Harris was their best DB this year
- Cincinnati: Geno Atkins, Leon Hall
- Seattle: Brandon Browner; LT Russell Okung missed half the season
- Green Bay: they nearly missed the playoffs because of Aaron Rodgers injury, plus injuries to and OT Bryan Bulaga
- Indianapolis: WR Reggie Wayne, among many others; they lost even more games from starters this year than New England

Other key losses include Bears DT Henry Melton, Houston LB Bryan Cushing, Pittsburgh OC Maurkice Pouncey, Atlanta WR Julio Jones, Tampa Bay OG Carl Nicks. Jason Pierre-Paul was a shadow of his self because of back issues.

We can't count on guys staying healthy for a full season, especially guys as physical and aggressive in their style of play as Gronk. So our options are either:

1. Hope we get lucky one year and that the majority of key personnel make it through to the playoffs healthy. Pretty low probability.

2. Rest certain personnel for the majority of the regular season so that they are fresh for the playoffs. Aldon Smith's prolonged layoff this season left him noticeably more effective for the playoffs than last year, when he played 90%+ of the defensive snaps and wore down at the end of the season.

3. Make sure that you have sufficient depth to survive the loss of key personnel. Seattle had enough secondary depth that the loss of Browner barely affected them, and certainly didn't cause them to change their basic approach. Last year the loss of Chris Clemons crippled their pass rush and allowed Matt Ryan to drive the field with ease - even against their top secondary - so they went out and invested in Cliff Avril and Michael Bennet for pass rushing depth. Chris Harris played admirably for Denver this year in the absence of Ryan Clady.

Obviously, the Pats were blindsided somewhat by Gronk's prolonged recovery from his arm injury, and especially by Hernandez' criminal allegations. But they didn't make much of a major effort to address the position.

BelichicksHoodie · Feb 8, 2014

ctpatsfan77 said:
Well, if the Pats can get more depth at TE, then they won't have to use GRONK on 80-90% of snaps, which will increase the likelihood he's still available in the playoffs.

And Edelman's future is something they can control.

He's had some freak injuries, playing 80-90% of the snaps isn't the reason for Gronk being injured. It's just plain old bad luck.

Avenger · Feb 8, 2014

mayoclinic said:
But injuries to key personnel are a part of life in the NFL these days. Almost every team has lost significant personnel for part of the season, and all the playoff teams lost Pro Bowl level personnel for the playoffs:

- New England: Gronk, Wilfork, Mayo, Vollmer (All Pro), Spikes (Pro Bowl runner up), Kelly (starting DT), Adrian Wilson (former probowler IR'd before season), Talib (battling injury all season and left AFCCG with injury)
- Denver: Ryan Clady, Von Miller; Chris Harris was their best DB this year
- Cincinnati: Geno Atkins, Leon Hall
- Seattle: Brandon Browner; LT Russell Okung missed half the season
- Green Bay: they nearly missed the playoffs because of Aaron Rodgers injury, plus injuries to and OT Bryan Bulaga
- Indianapolis: WR Reggie Wayne, among many others; they lost even more games from starters this year than New England

Other key losses include Bears DT Henry Melton, Houston LB Bryan Cushing, Pittsburgh OC Maurkice Pouncey, Atlanta WR Julio Jones, Tampa Bay OG Carl Nicks. Jason Pierre-Paul was a shadow of his self because of back issues.

We can't count on guys staying healthy for a full season, especially guys as physical and aggressive in their style of play as Gronk. So our options are either:

1. Hope we get lucky one year and that the majority of key personnel make it through to the playoffs healthy. Pretty low probability.

2. Rest certain personnel for the majority of the regular season so that they are fresh for the playoffs. Aldon Smith's prolonged layoff this season left him noticeably more effective for the playoffs than last year, when he played 90%+ of the defensive snaps and wore down at the end of the season.

3. Make sure that you have sufficient depth to survive the loss of key personnel. Seattle had enough secondary depth that the loss of Browner barely affected them, and certainly didn't cause them to change their basic approach. Last year the loss of Chris Clemons crippled their pass rush and allowed Matt Ryan to drive the field with ease - even against their top secondary - so they went out and invested in Cliff Avril and Michael Bennet for pass rushing depth. Chris Harris played admirably for Denver this year in the absence of Ryan Clady.

Obviously, the Pats were blindsided somewhat by Gronk's prolonged recovery from his arm injury, and especially by Hernandez' criminal allegations. But they didn't make much of a major effort to address the position.

ftfy......

Brady_to_Moss · Feb 8, 2014

And that is why it's so frustrating...so close to 1-2 more titles....but have none

LuRkeR1978 · Feb 8, 2014

Willie McGinest was often injured the first 3-4 years he was here, and we all know it turned out later on...

Give Gronk a break!

mayoclinic · Feb 8, 2014

Avenger said:
ftfy......

Adrian Wilson?

Puh-leeze. :bricks:

Spikes was a liability in the passing game and wouldn't have seen the field much against Denver. We got better when he went on IR and Collins stepped up and Hightower moved to MLB.

1960Pats · Feb 9, 2014

PATS16N0 said:
2011 Superbowl - Injured Gronk.
2012 AFC Championship game - No Gronk.
2013 AFC Championship game - No Gronk.

I think a lot of Patriot fans are getting so used to being without Gronk that they've almost forgotten we have him on our roster. A lot of freaking out and panicking about our personnel on the offensive side of the ball and I think a lot of it is due to them visualizing what it looks like without our superstar TE.

Without those injuries, it's entirely possible Brady is winning ring #6 last weekend.

Gronk getting injured is almost as damaging as Brady getting injured, and if Brady was in Gronk's situation the last three years, I don't think people would be freaking about our offense like they have been. The discussion would lean more towards crying over our key injuries, which is what I usually do.

Denver had, statistically, the most productive offense in league history this year.

While Gronk was active, ours was statistically better.

So I'm not understanding the panic or the criticisms of Belichick's roster decisions or any of the rest of it.

It's the injuries, stupid.

Who you calling stupid.

Injury excuses are weak. With or without Gronk we could have done better than we did this year. I bet if you asked the players they aren't happy either.

Personally, I'm more upset that they go pass-happy all the time. If they had run the ball more often in the last few years they might have had one or two more Lombardis sitting on that table at Patriot Place.

It's called balance, stupid.

RhodyPatriot · Feb 9, 2014

PATS16N0 said:
2011 Superbowl - Injured Gronk.
2012 AFC Championship game - No Gronk.
2013 AFC Championship game - No Gronk.

I think a lot of Patriot fans are getting so used to being without Gronk that they've almost forgotten we have him on our roster. A lot of freaking out and panicking about our personnel on the offensive side of the ball and I think a lot of it is due to them visualizing what it looks like without our superstar TE.

Without those injuries, it's entirely possible Brady is winning ring #6 last weekend.

Gronk getting injured is almost as damaging as Brady getting injured, and if Brady was in Gronk's situation the last three years, I don't think people would be freaking about our offense like they have been. The discussion would lean more towards crying over our key injuries, which is what I usually do.

Denver had, statistically, the most productive offense in league history this year.

While Gronk was active, ours was statistically better.

So I'm not understanding the panic or the criticisms of Belichick's roster decisions or any of the rest of it.

It's the injuries, stupid.

People are justified in their criticism of the offense because it has routinely underperformed in the playoffs for the past several years.....even pre-Gronk.
The play of the QB is the major reason for the decline.

BelichicksHoodie · Feb 9, 2014

For anyone to blame injures, specifically injuries to a tight end as the reason why we haven't won a Super Bowl in the last three year is blasphemous and nothing more than sour grapes. Everyone gets injured, everyone has injuries. That's where your team depth comes in and other facets of the team need to pick up the slack.

Our defense being abysmal the last few seasons is the reason why we haven't won the Super Bowl. Counting on Brady to carry a bunch of misfit receivers(for the most part) and a bad defense isn't going to work. It never did work in the first place and has never worked for anyone.

RayClay · Feb 9, 2014

The offense was originally set to break in rookies along with Gronk and the murderer. Dobson got injured just when he was getting consistent and Gronk's problems left the o without two veterans, the top rookie and Welker. His replacement played injured most of the year too. Edelman's fine season can't make up for all that.

I think one vet receiver and a mid round TE will be enough if everyone's mostly healthy.

PATS16N0 · Feb 9, 2014

BelichicksHoodie said:
For anyone to blame injures, specifically injuries to a tight end as the reason why we haven't won a Super Bowl in the last three year is blasphemous and nothing more than sour grapes. Everyone gets injured, everyone has injuries. That's where your team depth comes in and other facets of the team need to pick up the slack.

Our defense being abysmal the last few seasons is the reason why we haven't won the Super Bowl. Counting on Brady to carry a bunch of misfit receivers(for the most part) and a bad defense isn't going to work. It never did work in the first place and has never worked for anyone.

I don't really think it's that much different than if in 2007 Randy Moss was injured and everyone started complaining that Belichick isn't making moves to help our offense.

If we signed Calvin Johnson to the 2014 roster and he got hurt in week #1, there's not a lot that can be done about that, just like there wasn't a lot that could be done about Brady going down in 2008.

Gronk is a top 5 player in the entire league.

If he goes down, it's going to be noticeable.

If he never went down, and never got injured, we would have at least beaten the Giants in 2011 and I don't think all these people would be complaining.

Archeryaddict12 · Feb 9, 2014

Gronk is a big part of the offense. But it is just one of those things, the guy has had a rough patch in his young career. They also say bad things happen in 3's, and that is 3 bad things.

ashley · Feb 9, 2014

RayClay said:
The offense was originally set to break in rookies along with Gronk and the murderer. Dobson got injured just when he was getting consistent and Gronk's problems left the o without two veterans, the top rookie and Welker. His replacement played injured most of the year too. Edelman's fine season can't make up for all that.

I think one vet receiver and a mid round TE will be enough if everyone's mostly healthy.

I agree!!! If we resign Edleman, with Amendola back, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins with another year under their belt, Gronk back healthy, we bring back Hooman, add another tight end via free agency and draft a tight end in the 3rd or 4th round, I think our offense will be fine.

You add our improved running game and I think we should be in good shape.

People are more down on our offense than they should be.

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