How much does this SB loss damage Peyton Manning's legacy?

Re: After last night...

SB39 said:

I'm not so sure that's true. Brady didn't throw terribly many pick-6's yesterday and he certainly didn't turn the ball over 3 times.

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Brady wasn't allowed to participate.

Re: After last night...

AndyJohnson said:

Brady wasn't allowed to participate.

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I understand what your saying and it is logical; however, I have to disagree in the area of perception. Manning earned his fifth MVP entering the game, had an unbelievable season breaking Brady's TD record, and "everyone" just knew he was going to put big points on the board. He threw one TD pass on the biggest stage in sports. Your statement is comparable the Brady/Montana debate as Brady was in the Superbowl more often.

What yesterday's game meant was Manning took a big blow for the national media, coaches, and fans who were somehow convinced that he was the greatest ever. Brady does not have to win another to be better then Manning, although, if the Pats win one more with Brady he just stamped on Peyton's jugular.

Peyton Manning teams wilt against adversity. You'll always hear about "uncharacteristic mistakes" after a Peyton play off choke job failure.
When the chips are down, the team looks to their leader and, whether its in white or orange, he'll be pouting on the sidelines.

Last night was really embarrassing.

Even if that defense wouldn't be denied this year, a Brady or Rodgers wouldn't have been totally humiliated by them. It would of been close, like our games with Baltimore.

Last night was just bad.

You can almost hear in the resignation of media voices today that it's now just official, as if it wasn't before.

Tom > Peyton.

I've never seen a Superbowl trainwreck like that before. No spirit at all. Just a bunch of Peyton Manning lead wilters.

Re: After last night...

I think you cannot take the game you saw last night and then just plug the Patriots into the role of Denver.

The Patriots have different match-up issues than the Broncos, different strategies, etc.

You see a team look dominant one game and the next week they look weak. You folks need to step off the ledge.

Re: After last night...

Originally, I was going to root for the AFC, but I just couldn't get myself to do it, and spent the entire game with a big grin on my face as P6 gagged away another big game. The only things happier last night were P6's feet.

Before the game started I went to get the numbers for my SB squares and I ran into a friend who coached one of the Seahawks players when he was in HS near here. According to the coach he's a great kid and I'm happy for both of them.

When a QB breaks a SB record for completions and hits on 75% of his passes for 400+ yards, and his team only scores 8 points while losing by 6 TDs, that proves that numbers don't mean squat.

My favorite one liner so far has been Manning put the O in Omaha, but I still like the old standard why the long face line too.

In spite of how well everything went for P6 this year, he still crapped the bed when it counted most. That pretty much sealed the deal. I doubt he'll ever get another chance, but even if he did why would anyone beside a punch drunk boxer bet on him.

Thanks Pete. By totaling ignoring the goal line for most of the 4th quarter and running plays into the middle even on fourth down close to the red zone, you kept that final score at 43-8 and gave me the final score hit on a SB square. I take back everything I said about you being a bad coach when you were here.

Watching Denver's kick that went for a TD reminded me of the Tuna's strategy against Desmond Howard.

I wonder if Manning will play again next year.

Re: After last night...

"After last night..."

For me, it just puts the exclamation point how football is a Team sport; no single player, no matter how good a QB they may be, is *NOT* going to overcome the opposition single-handedly. Seattle proved they have a better team; even just on the defensive side of the ball, they out-executed Denver up and down the roster. All this fetish about putting the wins and losses solely on the QB, as important a cog as they are in the machine, is short-sighted.

Ivan said:

The GOAT discussion will be Brady/Montana, and it will take another Lombardi for Brady to ever have the edge in that discussion.

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I don't think there is a debate on this one given Montana's record in SBs. The Shiity thing is, brady was two plays away from 5-0 in SBs. As for Manning, he is not close to either of those or Elway for that matter. In terms of this generation, he's there with Brees and Rodgers, but Brady stands alone.

Re: After last night...

buile said:

"After last night..."

For me, it just puts the exclamation point how football is a Team sport; no single player, no matter how good a QB they may be, is *NOT* going to overcome the opposition single-handedly. Seattle proved they have a better team; even just on the defensive side of the ball, they out-executed Denver up and down the roster. All this fetish about putting the wins and losses solely on the QB, as important a cog as they are in the machine, is short-sighted.

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And that's why many fans get sick and tired of hearing the credit going solely to the QB when a team wins, and that doesn't matter if it's Manning or Brady.

That doesn't mean that we can't judge a QBs play in an individual game though, and once again, Manning had a lousy game when it counted most.

That much can't be denied, though I'm sure the Peytonites will give it a try. I wish them all luck, because they're going to need it.

Re: After last night...

Manning was always outside the top five regardless of the AFCCG victory. This loss, excuse me... thorough ass kicking just solified Manning's place further down the trough.

ausbacker said:

It doesn't damage his legacy it confirms it.

Everything went right for him this season and he still couldn't win another championship without his Defense carrying him.

Manning is a super player and I have marvelled at his exploits but he isn't in the same stratosphere as our guy.

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What championships has brady won without the defense carrying the team? All this game shows is great defense + competent offense beats great offense + subpar defense almost always -- it has to the patriots since 07; it has to manning his entire career

voluntarysaftey said:

What championships has brady won without the defense carrying the team? All this game shows is great defense + competent offense beats great offense + subpar defense almost always -- it has to the patriots since 07; it has to manning his entire career

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Did you miss 2003?

Re: After last night...

Brady's 2 loses are both by less than a possession, and last night Manning lost by 35. But sadly the media will still say Manning is clutch in big games!

I would rather end the season the way it ended for us, then go out and play like that!

voluntarysaftey said:

What championships has brady won without the defense carrying the team? All this game shows is great defense + competent offense beats great offense + subpar defense almost always -- it has to the patriots since 07; it has to manning his entire career

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Yeah 2003 doesn't ring a bell??

2007 and 2011 showed how crucial it is to get a stop after your QB drains the clock or puts up points.

THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES

Espn First Take, Monday 3rd February 2014 - YouTube

ESPN First Take RUTHLESSNESS. RUTHLESSNESS.
Peyton getting buried.

I would state a time to listen to, but the whole thing is ruthless.

Steven A. Smith doesn't even "know how Broncos can walk the streets"

"Putrid, just putrid, I don't look at Peyton Manning the same way."

"You've been diminished. You've been minimized. You got punked."

"You're a tin man."

Just ruthless.

PFM (or as I call him, P roFlao M) just getting annihilated today. You know those scenes from third world countries with people dancing and burning flags? Replace flag with Peyton Manning's reputation and that's basically what I'm watching on ESPN today.

Post all the best Peyton Manning hate-a-thon media pieces here. Make it your quick source to all the Peyton hate you can handle.

I love how they're all surprised.

I think Patriot fans are the supreme experts on Peyton Manning. In week #8 NFL network should just have one of us -any one of us- show up to tell them how it's going to end. lol.

25:00 Steven A, a die hard NY fan, says days of comparing Peyton to Brady and Montana are over.

Re: After last night...

this may be unpopular, but here goes...

If you judged Peyton Manning's legacy / career as higher than Tom Brady's a year ago, 6 months ago, or even a week ago, it seems logical to think that any supposed gap between them has only widened, in Peyton's favor.

If (as I do) you had Peyton Manning's legacy /career as lower than Tom Brady's a year ago, 6 months ago, or even a week ago, it seems logical to think that any supposed gap between them has narrowed (at least a little bit) in Peyton's favor.

Peyton had a better season and yes a better postseason than Tom Brady, who went 1-1 instead of 2-1, and had a subpar game in the Patriots loss to Manning's team, with Manning playing exceptionally well.

Peyton was better yesterday, since Brady was not proficient enough to even be permitted to play. 0-1 is in fact better than 0-0.

Yes, that flies in the face of the stupid tendency to put EVERYTHING on the outcome of one game, the SUPER BOWL, the loser of which is THE NFL'S BIGGEST LOSER, supposedly.

You know, the stupid logic that, for example, ridicules the 2007 Patriots for "choking" in the Super Bowl as a big favorite, something that, after all, nobody else did. Nobody else lost in the Super Bowl that day! San Diego, losers of the AFCCG to NE two weeks before, were better than New England that year, or at least had a more successful postseason, being 0-0 in the Super Bowl. As were the Colts, losers of in the division round to San Diego, who also went 0-0 in the Super Bowl. Everyone knows it is of utmost importance to "never have lost in the Super Bowl" (even though you avoided that fate by losing sooner.)

Does anyone else see how silly this popularly applied knee-jerk Super Bowl loser "logic" is?

Re: After last night...

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

this may be unpopular, but here goes...

If you judged Peyton Manning's legacy / career as higher than Tom Brady's a year ago, 6 months ago, or even a week ago, it seems logical to think that any supposed gap between them has only widened, in Peyton's favor.

If (as I do) you had Peyton Manning's legacy /career as lower than Tom Brady's a year ago, 6 months ago, or even a week ago, it seems logical to think that any supposed gap between them has narrowed (at least a little bit) in Peyton's favor.

Peyton had a better season and yes a better postseason than Tom Brady, who went 1-1 instead of 2-1, and had a subpar game in the Patriots loss to Manning's team, with Manning playing exceptionally well.

Peyton was better yesterday, since Brady was not proficient enough to even be permitted to play. 0-1 is in fact better than 0-0.

Yes, that flies in the face of the stupid tendency to put EVERYTHING on the outcome of one game, the SUPER BOWL, the loser of which is THE NFL'S BIGGEST LOSER, supposedly.

You know, the stupid logic that, for example, ridicules the 2007 Patriots for "choking" in the Super Bowl as a big favorite, something that, after all, nobody else did. Nobody else lost in the Super Bowl that day! San Diego, losers of the AFCCG to NE two weeks before, were better than New England that year, or at least had a more successful postseason, being 0-0 in the Super Bowl. As were the Colts, losers of in the division round to San Diego, who also went 0-0 in the Super Bowl. Everyone knows it is of utmost importance to "never have lost in the Super Bowl" (even though you avoided that fate by losing sooner.)

Does anyone else see how silly this popularly applied knee-jerk Super Bowl loser "logic" is?

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The notion that Manning had a better season than Brady is questionable. The notion that Manning had a better postseason is also questionable. The issue of supporting casts makes both open questions.

However, the notion that Manning will cough up a furball in the playoffs was absolutely reinforced.


It is what it is. Manning's legacy as a choking dog was added to by his lousy showing in the Super Bowl.

Re: After last night...

Agree with those saying it didn't change anything, Brady is still firmly ahead.

It is not over though (although I do hope it's the last time PM sniffs a SB) so I would hold the premature 'end of discussion' talk. IMO, Brady needs to maintain a 2+ gap in rings to really solidify the debate.