2014 Draft Prospect Thread

Husse said:

That + getting one, maybe two if Talib leaves, of the bigger CBs (McGill, Jean-Baptiste, Desir, your guy Dowling) and I'll be over the moon.

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A number of people think Jean-Baptiste will end up being an early day 2 or even late day 1 pick before all is done. How he does at the Combine will have a major impact. McGill's stock doesn't seem quite as high right now, but it would probably still take at least a 3rd to get him as things currently stand.

Dowling and/or Aaron Colvin day 3 would be very nice.

mayoclinic said:

A number of people think Jean-Baptiste will end up being an early day 2 or even late day 1 pick before all is done. How he does at the Combine will have a major impact. McGill's stock doesn't seem quite as high right now, but it would probably still take at least a 3rd to get him as things currently stand.

Dowling and/or Aaron Colvin day 3 would be very nice.

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Mayo i dont know if you have but if you didnt, you should take a look at Phillip Gaines. He does not have the speed but what he has is a very high football iq and awareness. The kid is a pass break up machine and very physical.

stelfans said:

Mayo i dont know if you have but if you didnt, you should take a look at Phillip Gaines. He does not have the speed but what he has is a very high football iq and awareness. The kid is a pass break up machine and very physical.

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Colvin>Dowling

I've heard Billy Turner's name mentioned, and I'd like to say that he may be a player to avoid. It has nothing to do with his film, but offensive line is the hardest position to scout at the FCS level. You look at other positions, if you see a quarterback make a 60 yard throw at the FCS level, he can throw 60 yards against anyone. For a wide receiver, a nice route is a nice route, no matter what level of competition you are facing. As a linebacker or safety, a quick diagnosis of the play is a quick diagnosis of the play, no matter what. But offensive linemen as well as cornerback are the hardest FCS positions to scout, since the quality of their play is only measured against the quality of the opponent. Corner might even be harder because the infrequency with which they get targeted makes trying to evaluate their ball skills ridiculous, but at least the combine gives you some idea if they have size and athleticism to cover NFL receivers. But none of the tests at the NFL combine really are good indicators of whether or not an offensive lineman has the lateral athleticism (way different than the 40), body control, and lower body strength (on run plays, you block with your legs, bench press means little) to have NFL success. Sure, Billy Turner has the strength and athleticism to block almost any FCS lineman, but can he block and FBS lineman? You just can't tell. Believe me, anyone who saw any David Arkin film knows what I'm talking about.

stelfans said:

Mayo i dont know if you have but if you didnt, you should take a look at Phillip Gaines. He does not have the speed but what he has is a very high football iq and awareness. The kid is a pass break up machine and very physical.

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Thanks. I've heard of Gaines, but haven't watched a lot of him. He's supposedly very physical, but there are some questions about his speed. Could he be a safety conversion? From what I've heard, he's probably a UDFA, so he could be a good target.

JerseyShore99 said:

Colvin>Dowling

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Have you seen much of Dowling, or are you just basing this on ranking/reputation?

FWIW, I'd love to pick them both up. We have 2 6th round picks and may get 2 6th round comp picks. Get them both and you've got tremendous depth at the DB position, as both guys can probably play outside CB and safety:

S: McCourty, Harmon, Gregory/Wilson, Dowling, Ebner.
CB: Talib, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington, Colvin.

Colvin would probably be on PUP and possibly IR for 2014, but some had him projected as a top-50 pick. Dowling has big time talent, and I've heard some projections that he could rise as far as the 3rd round.

Sign an OG/OC in FA and a TE like Brandon Pettigrew or Scott Chandler, re-sign Edelman or sign a cheaper UFA alternative (Jeremy Maclin or Riley Cooper), restructure a bunch of guys (including Wilfork, or sign Linval Joseph), then draft mainly for defense:

29. Timmy Jernigan or Ra'Shede Hageman.
33. (hypothetical Mallett trade). Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford.
62. Marcus Smith, OLB, Louisville.
93. Devonta Freeman, RB, Florida St.
128. Richard Rogers, move TE, Cal.
6a. Aaron Colvin, DB, Oklahoma.
6b. Best available developmental interior lineman prospect.
6 (comp). Jonathan Dowling, DB, Western Kentucky.
6 (comp). Trey Millard, FB, Oklahoma.
7. Moon shot of your choice.

And yes, I know that BB has never drafted a player from a Bob Stoops-coached team.

mayoclinic said:

Thanks. I've heard of Gaines, but haven't watched a lot of him. He's supposedly very physical, but there are some questions about his speed. Could he be a safety conversion? From what I've heard, he's probably a UDFA, so he could be a good target.



Have you seen much of Dowling, or are you just basing this on ranking/reputation?

FWIW, I'd love to pick them both up. We have 2 6th round picks and may get 2 6th round comp picks. Get them both and you've got tremendous depth at the DB position, as both guys can probably play outside CB and safety:

S: McCourty, Harmon, Gregory/Wilson, Dowling, Ebner.
CB: Talib, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington, Colvin.

Colvin would probably be on PUP and possibly IR for 2014, but some had him projected as a top-50 pick. Dowling has big time talent, and I've heard some projections that he could rise as far as the 3rd round.

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I honestly haven't seen much of Dowling but I've seen video, Colvin would be great when he plays in 2015, huge steal, I 100% hate Dowling's competition however playing at WKU

mackenzie45220 said:

I've heard Billy Turner's name mentioned, and I'd like to say that he may be a player to avoid. It has nothing to do with his film, but offensive line is the hardest position to scout at the FCS level. You look at other positions, if you see a quarterback make a 60 yard throw at the FCS level, he can throw 60 yards against anyone. For a wide receiver, a nice route is a nice route, no matter what level of competition you are facing. As a linebacker or safety, a quick diagnosis of the play is a quick diagnosis of the play, no matter what. But offensive linemen as well as cornerback are the hardest FCS positions to scout, since the quality of their play is only measured against the quality of the opponent. Corner might even be harder because the infrequency with which they get targeted makes trying to evaluate their ball skills ridiculous, but at least the combine gives you some idea if they have size and athleticism to cover NFL receivers. But none of the tests at the NFL combine really are good indicators of whether or not an offensive lineman has the lateral athleticism (way different than the 40), body control, and lower body strength (on run plays, you block with your legs, bench press means little) to have NFL success. Sure, Billy Turner has the strength and athleticism to block almost any FCS lineman, but can he block and FBS lineman? You just can't tell. Believe me, anyone who saw any David Arkin film knows what I'm talking about.

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As I understand it, your sole argument is that it's hard to project an FCS offensive lineman. Probably true, but I don't think that should stop you from drafting one if you like him. Jahri Evans (Bloomsburg) and Jared Veldheer (Hillsboro) worked out ok.

From all accounts Turner was a "roller-coaster" at the Senior Bowl - looked great at times, terrible at others. Not surprising given the leap in competition, but there should be enough film to evaluate his lateral mobility (less important, as I project him to the interior OL) and other attributes, and get a sense for whether he is teachable. I wouldn't over-reach on Turner, but I wouldn't take him off my board.

Oh, and for the record, I have seen him against Kansas State. His positioning was awful at times, but the blocking itself was outstanding. Sadly, defensive line easily isn't Kansas State's strong suit. Turner struggled a bit more as the game went along, so stamina may be an issue. Oh, and one play from the game was great from my current favorite sleeper of next year's draft, Randall Evans
Billy Turner vs Kansas State (2013) - YouTube

mayoclinic said:

As I understand it, your sole argument is that it's hard to project an FCS offensive lineman. Probably true, but I don't think that should stop you from drafting one if you like him. Jahri Evans (Bloomsburg) and Jared Veldheer (Hillsboro) worked out ok.

From all accounts Turner was a "roller-coaster" at the Senior Bowl - looked great at times, terrible at others. Not surprising given the leap in competition, but there should be enough film to evaluate his lateral mobility (less important, as I project him to the interior OL) and other attributes, and get a sense for whether he is teachable. I wouldn't over-reach on Turner, but I wouldn't take him off my board.

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Frankly, I think an FCS lineman isn't more or less likely than an FCS player at any other position to develop into an NFL starter. I just think it is tougher to tell which ones will. Plenty of them work out okay, but it is hard to figure out which ones will do so. They strike me as risky picks.

mackenzie45220 said:

Frankly, I think an FCS lineman isn't more or less likely than an FCS player at any other position to develop into an NFL starter. I just think it is tougher to tell which ones will. Plenty of them work out okay, but it is hard to figure out which ones will do so. They strike me as risky picks.

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Probably true. But would you avoid them altogether? I think the question is how high they go. Veldheer was a high 3rd round pick, and I had him rated that high, but he was the exception.

Right now Dane Brugler has Billy Turner rated as his #46 overall prospect:

46. Billy Turner, G, North Dakota State (6-5, 316, rSr.): The starting left tackle for three-time FCS champions, Turner has quick feet and natural body control to hold his own in space and combo blocks. If he can learn to sink his hips and not bend so much at the waist, he has Pro Bowls in his future, probably best inside at guard.

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2014 NFL Draft prospects: Top 50 Draft Board 1.0 - CBSSports.com

I like Turner, but that seems absurdly high to me. I want a 2nd round pick to be someone who can step in and start, at least by the later part of the season. I see Turner as having high upside, but needing more time to develop even in the best scenario. I'd say 4th round is reasonable, but earlier may be too aggressive. I'd take Joel Bitonio over Turner right now - Turner may have a higher ceiling, but there is a lot more risk. I'm pretty comfortable Bitonio could step in and play fairly soon. And I'm very confident that Gabe Jackson could be an immediate starter and upgrade at RG.

One day 3 guy to keep an eye on is Stanford OL Cameron Fleming. 6'6" 318#. He played RT for Stanford, but could move inside to guard.

Speaking of Bitonio, here's a nice write-up on him:

http://www.rgj.com/article/20140124...-ahead-Saturday-s-Senior-Bowl?nclick_check=1

Of note:

There’s been some talk that Bitonio might fit better at the NFL level at guard, and he has spent time at every position on the offensive line this week. He even took some snaps at center.

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Hmm ... I didn't know that Bitonio took snaps at center. That could be very interesting.

mayoclinic said:

Probably true. But would you avoid them altogether? I think the question is how high they go. Veldheer was a high 3rd round pick, and I had him rated that high, but he was the exception.

Right now Dane Brugler has Billy Turner rated as his #46 overall prospect:



2014 NFL Draft prospects: Top 50 Draft Board 1.0 - CBSSports.com

I like Turner, but that seems absurdly high to me. I want a 2nd round pick to be someone who can step in and start, at least by the later part of the season. I see Turner as having high upside, but needing more time to develop even in the best scenario. I'd say 4th round is reasonable, but earlier may be too aggressive. I'd take Joel Bitonio over Turner right now - Turner may have a higher ceiling, but there is a lot more risk. I'm pretty comfortable Bitonio could step in and play fairly soon. And I'm very confident that Gabe Jackson could be an immediate starter and upgrade at RG.

One day 3 guy to keep an eye on is Stanford OL Cameron Fleming. 6'6" 318#. He played RT for Stanford, but could move inside to guard.

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I don't avoid them altogether. I just don't really consider them until day 3, unless they have good film against a solid FBS D-Line. I never saw Dakota Dozier's game against LSU, but if he played well in that game, I would make an exception for a guy like him. But with Turner, I stay away until day 3, especially given the strength of the draft class.

ctpatsfan77 said:

Here's a video (almost 50 min) purporting to show every target to Janis in 2013:

Saginaw Valley State University WR #82 Jeff Janis 2013 Targets - YouTube

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That's better, and I should be able to get something from that when I watch. But I still need to take with two grains of salt: it will probably show most of his better routes, and it won't tell me anything about his blocking. I might be able to write a scouting report with that.

A player I keep coming back to and don't know why he isn't getting as much hype as the rest of his position is WR Jarvis Landry (LSU). Outside of Watkins, he has been my favorite receiver to watch. He seems to have a good combination of speed and toughness, making a lot of contested catches. Am I missing something obvious like character issues? Because he looks like a star to me in the NFL.

patsinthesnow said:

2014 NFL Draft: Top-50 Draft Board 1.0 - CBSSports.com

Another top 50, he has Niklas at 32, above ASJ.

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For comparison, Gil Brandt's top 50:

Johnny Manziel ranks No. 1 on top 50 NFL prospects list - NFL.com

Johnny Manziel, Brandt's #1 prospect, is #38 on Brugler's list. LOL.

Other notables:

- Trent Murphy, Lamarcus Joyner, Calvin Pryor and David Yankey not in the top 50.
- Jeremy Hill at 26.
- Aaron Colvin at 37 (obviously before Colvin's ACL injury).

This draft is so strong and deep, it's really going to be a eye-of the-beholder kind of situation.

I don't know if this passed people by, but have you all seen Georgia Tech CB Jemea Thomas' wingspan? He's only 5'9 1/2" but has 33 5/8" arms which gives him a bigger wingspan than Dontae Johnson, Pierre Desir and Stanley Jean-Baptiste. I had originally watched Thomas who is an almost exclusive nickel back and thought him a lesser Kyle Fuller, LaMarcus Joyner. Having re-watched him, I still think that, but he does break up quite a few passes because of that arm length. CBS Sports have him as a day three safety but I could see him as a useful value 5th corner/4th safety type. I do think that exceptional arm length is something that will interest BB.

jr_3421 said:

A player I keep coming back to and don't know why he isn't getting as much hype as the rest of his position is WR Jarvis Landry (LSU). Outside of Watkins, he has been my favorite receiver to watch. He seems to have a good combination of speed and toughness, making a lot of contested catches. Am I missing something obvious like character issues? Because he looks like a star to me in the NFL.

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I think Odell will end up being the flashier/more explosive player in the NFL and part of that makes me feel like at this point, with what we have on the roster he's a pick that will play dividends faster. Landry is an excellent prospect in his own right and I actually think he'll end up being the better receiver. No idea why he isn't getting more credit, maybe it will stay that way and he'll find himself in Foxborough.

TriplecHamp said:

I think Odell will end up being the flashier/more explosive player in the NFL and part of that makes me feel like at this point, with what we have on the roster he's a pick that will play dividends faster. Landry is an excellent prospect in his own right and I actually think he'll end up being the better receiver. No idea why he isn't getting more credit, maybe it will stay that way and he'll find himself in Foxborough.

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I was a huge huge fan of Marvin Jones a couple of years ago and I liken Jarvis Landry to him. Needless to say, as much as I like Beckam's game, I would be on the Landry bandwagon should we go WR (which I don't think we will).

Some interesting nuggets from Mike Loyko (@nepd_loyko):

6. I know at least two teams have #UCLA OG Xavier Su'a-Filo graded in the first round

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5. #IU WR Cody Latimer will go higher than most people realize. Heard the NFL likes him ALOT. #nfldraft

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1. Heard #Auburn OT Greg Robinson is training at API and tearing it up. Other players have said he will "destroy the NFL combine" #NFLDraft

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manxman2601 said:

Some interesting nuggets from Mike Loyko (@nepd_loyko):

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I think Greg Robinson is the top prospect in the draft. Walter Jones II.