Brady's playoff performances

Sciz said:

Well it appears many people can't judge Brady and his surrounding cast any differently, so assuming they aren't hit hard by injuries again, then the offense as a whole will look better and most people will think more of Brady because of it, even if Brady himself plays the same.

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As usual, you hit it on the head.

The "problem" is not Tom Brady. The problem is Brady + the surrounding cast.

Today we gave up more yards on defense than any other reg or postseason game in Belichick's history as a NEP HC. The defense has been a huge problem in the postseason lately. I'm not sure why that goes over so many heads.

If we had a better supporting cast for Tom Brady, he'll take complete advantage of it. The question of course, is will they add a better cast for him, and will injuries lay off of us for a year or so?

TonyTucker said:

Quite a difference the past ten years, the Patriots become choking dogs and the Red Sox are clutch. Getting to these AFCCG's is nice, but isn't it about time for more? Is the organization satisfied? Because I think they've also had enough of 1) fattening the regular season record for a first round bye, 2) beating some chump pretender in the divisional round, and 3) getting your ass handed to you once you step up in class.

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The Lions have a big splashy receiver. Why not root for them instead of these choking dogs? I think it's terrible you feel compelled to stay here.

crowell33 said:

Something is failing here. BB picks the players. BB coaches the players. Brady is the Qb. The Patriots have not won a Superbowl in 10 years ! Since their last Superbowl win the Red Sox have won 3 World Series Championships, not to mention both the Bruins, and Celtics World Championships.

Boston is title town. We measure success by World Championships. The Patriots have failed for a decade now. Do we stick to the same formula for year 11 next year, crying about referees and injuries at seasons end once again?

Will Brady be better at age 37 next year? Is that the plan?

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must have moved here after 2000s?

Because I root for the Patriots. I'm just telling you what they've been the past ten years. All these "deep" playoff runs, and no titles. But hey, they'll be back next year after dusting the Bungles or somebody in the divisional round, and then lose to a Manning for the 5th straight time.

TonyTucker said:

Because I root for the Patriots. I'm just telling you what they've been the past ten years. All these "deep" playoff runs, and no titles. But hey, they'll be back next year after dusting the Bungles or somebody in the divisional round, and then lose to a Manning for the 5th straight time.

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I don't know why you torture yourself. Get in on the ground floor as a Jaguars fan I say.

I've learned to accept that TB/BB will probably never win another Super Bowl together. They might, but they probably won't. They will compete each year but come up short, just as they have in recent years. I decided that after they lost to the Ravens in the AFCCG last season. I am OK with it. It could be worse. I could be a Jets fan.

TonyTucker said:

Because I root for the Patriots. I'm just telling you what they've been the past ten years. All these "deep" playoff runs, and no titles. But hey, they'll be back next year after dusting the Bungles or somebody in the divisional round, and then lose to a Manning for the 5th straight time.

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In disagreeing how you're approaching this, but respecting the fact of what your concern is, keep in mind that we're built for longer term success, not just one/two seasons like most other teams.

The best record in the past 10, 20 years coincides with this thinking. The object is to "get there" (and Brady/Belichick have in more than 50% of their seasons together) and try to develop a specific gameplan for that particular game. Unfortunately, we've had some poorer luck (last 2 SB losses by 3 and 4 points), along with key injuries to both Gronk/Talib in the past 2 AFCCG's.

I would not sacrifice their method for anything though. The truth is that we should be right back in the same position to compete in the playoffs again next year, with the hope that we won't have BOTH Gronk and Talib hurt again.

Don't underestimate the challenge that it is just to have a "deep" playoff run, where you get the first round bye year in and year out, win your home playoff game, advance to the 3rd round, and have a legitimate shot at going to the SB.

PatsFan24 said:

I've learned to accept that TB/BB will probably never win another Super Bowl together. They might, but they probably won't. They will compete each year but come up short, just as they have in recent years. I decided that after they lost to the Ravens in the AFCCG last season. I am OK with it. It could be worse. I could be a Jets fan.

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When you consistently compete and have deep playoff runs to go to the SB just about every year, you're probably bound to win it again at some point.

They have totally rebuilt their team at least once/twice/maybe even more during these runs, which is remarkable. It's unfortunate that they lost their top 2 players (aside from #12) on each side of the ball the past 2 AFCCG's, and had the past 2 SB's come down to backbreaking final drives and crazy luck. Such is life sometimes...

However, thinking this is going to happen in every single year is just as flawed as everyone's opinion that "Manning has choked in the past, so he'll definitely do it again this season," which I thought was just stupid. Every year is different. Now I see people are switching their minds in the past week, and now saying that "Brady chokes every year, so he'll definitely do it again....." It's just as stupid.

(not meaning to say that YOU are "stupid," b/c I wouldn't say that)

supafly said:

Today we gave up more yards on defense than any other reg or postseason game in Belichick's history as a NEP HC. The defense has been a huge problem in the postseason lately. I'm not sure why that goes over so many heads.

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I don't know about other recent games, but people are ignoring it in this game because of the drive counts. That's the type of stat that I'll admit to not really recognizing as significant until recently, but it's so important here.


The numbers for this game are particularly shocking: (PPD=points per drive)

NE O PPD reg season: 2.21
DEN D PPD reg season: 1.88
NE O PPD this game: 2.00, 2.29 if you exclude the drive before the end of the half

DEN O PPD reg season: 2.98
NE D PPD reg season: 1.66
DEN O PPD this game: 3.25, 3.63 if you add a FG rather than the end of game kneel, 3.71 if you don't count the final DEN drive

Namely, the offense was somewhere between 90% as effective and just above average (depending which number you choose; it doesn't really matter), while the defense allowed about twice as many points per drive as they did during the regular season and allowed the Broncos a higher average than they had during their record-breaking regular season.

That's a damning stat if I ever saw one. Now I don't want to act like the offense was good, but it wasn't bad despite some pretty bad plays by Brady and others. But the defense, simply put, just didn't have the players to do anything.

9 for 21 123yds 0 TD 2 Int.

The winning QB in 2005-6 SB.

Brady is the only reason they even make the playoffs every year and until they put a great OL and good pass rushing defense around Brady they will not win a SB again

patsfan-1982 said:

Brady is the only reason they even make the playoffs every year and until they put a great OL and good pass rushing defense around Brady they will not win a SB again

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I think we have to hope that we're either 1 or the other of:

--good enough on both sides of the ball, like in 2011. This usually needs some breaks here and there, along with some luck. This year would have been another prime example, although we of course came up short

--completely dominating on ONE side or the other. In 2003 and 2004 we were completely dominating on defense. In 2007 it was offense. We've seen Peyton Manning led teams go to 3 SB's now with a major weakness at defense, which has been masked by insane offensive performances

I think our offensive line was "good enough," we just had a major weakness at the position of receiver/TE this season.

I don't know if we'll ever have the dominating defense that we've seen in the past here. Even this year, we were the 5th highest sacking defense in the NFL, and we had a major weakness with the ability to get pressure on a consistent enough basis to even recognize this great stat (in my opinion).

Since we're closer in my opinion on the offensive side of the ball, I'd like to see that improved enough this offseason to get back to scaring the opposition in the same manner that we have in the past, or even DEN did this season. Sadly, we just didn't have any options this year.

supafly said:

As usual, you hit it on the head.



The "problem" is not Tom Brady. The problem is Brady + the surrounding cast.



Today we gave up more yards on defense than any other reg or postseason game in Belichick's history as a NEP HC. The defense has been a huge problem in the postseason lately. I'm not sure why that goes over so many heads.



If we had a better supporting cast for Tom Brady, he'll take complete advantage of it. The question of course, is will they add a better cast for him, and will injuries lay off of us for a year or so?

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To pull that out a little further, the 'problem' is that Brady is no longer the guy who can make bad WR corps look good. At this stage in his career, we may have to actually get receivers who can make him look good. He misses too many open receivers downfield to give the Pats the luxury of skimping at WR.

He isn't the player that he used to be, but he's still good enough to get the job done. The Pats just need to realize that it's not 2010 anymore and evolve their team-building philosophy accordingly.

I think the more pertinent question would be why does Logan Mankins turn in to a turnstyle like ***** in championship games?

There's a monster in RS and liability in the playoffs much more so than Brady!

BradyFTW! said:

To pull that out a little further, the 'problem' is that Brady is no longer the guy who can make bad WR corps look good. At this stage in his career, we may have to actually get receivers who can make him look good. He misses too many open receivers downfield to give the Pats the luxury of skimping at WR.

He isn't the player that he used to be, but he's still good enough to get the job done. The Pats just need to realize that it's not 2010 anymore and evolve their team-building philosophy accordingly.

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You'd have to go all the way back to 2006 where I honestly felt that we needed to go out and make some big moves at the position of WR, whereas there is always a high majority here who feel that it's a must every single season.

I will admit to having those feelings again right now after witnessing what Brady had to work with throughout 2013.

That can be done in a number of ways, but it's time to bring in another capable wide receiver again, along with hopefully retaining Julian Edelman.

I'm not claiming that I expect them to make some huge splash, especially with Dobson/Boyce on the roster as hopeful second year developers, but I think we need to bring in some better talent no matter how it's done.

Obviously, when people are hurt, they say things they don't mean. Sometimes they even say really stupid **** they regret later.

The truth is Denver beat us in every phase of the game yesterday. They shut down the revived run game, they took away the short passes, they were on top of the screens, they shredded our MASH unit defense with runs and passes...they deserved to win.

And yet, to blame Brady for being human seems unfair.

To suggest his play-off performances are dramatically different from the Super Bowl years is just plain wrong though.

Brady completed 63% of his passes for 277 yards and 1 TD passing yesterday in an "awful" performance. It looks worse because we lost and Manning had such a great game in contrast. But how does that compare to the 10-0 start with 3 Super Bowls?

During Brady's 10-game winning streak in the play-offs, he threw for less than those 277 yards 8 times. 5 of those 10 games featured worse QB ratings than yesterday. But he won each of those games so we look at it differently.

In 2 of those games, he had 0 passing TDs. In 4 more of those games, he only had 1 passing TD, so 6 out of the 10 games had similar or worse TDs than yesterday. Again, we win, so it feels different.

If you compare his averages from the 10-0 streak vs. the games since (not including yesterday, which was apparently so awful), this is what you get:

10-0: 33.1 attempts, 61.9%, 6.5 YPA, 215 yards, 1.4 TD, 0.3 INT
Since: 38.7 attempts, 62.1%, 6.9 YPA, 266 yards, 1.8 TD, 1.3 INT

The biggest difference would be in the INT rate, which is largely fueled by 5 games where he threw multiple interceptions. Yet incredibly enough, we are 3-2 in those games, including 2 wins when he threw 3 INTs. Brady's career mark is closer to 0.7, so the 0.3 was probably not going to be sustainable.

Yesterday wasn't good enough for a lot of reasons, but to suggest Brady's performance was terrible compared to those championship years is totally wrong.

Dude was sick. How many times you see Brady hanging his head on the sidelines like yesterday? 0 that's how many.

RayClay said:

By free pass you mean he's "gasp" human? He had a hell of a year and dragged the team on his back in mid season and early through motivation to keep trying and not blow off the season.

Maybe instead of a free pass, fans should look into themselves to see why you expect otherworldly performances every year like it's your birthright.

Manning and the Broncos outplayed Brady and the Patriots and that include O Line, D Line secondary and just about every other phase of the game.

I guess if you want to look at Brady like some comic book super hero because he got off to a fast start in his career, you need to worry about a "free pass". But if you look at him as a human and all the incredible wins against Denver N.O Cleveland and more, trying to work in rookie receivers and make uo for an incredible amount of injuries, including working without the TE duo which happened to be th strength of the team.

Someday, if some fans stick around, you'll get a "free pass" to see what it's like to have a quarterback that's downright crappy and be grasping for straws early for any reason to keep watching or rooting for the future. Maybe then you'll appreciate Brady.

Believe it or not, some teams don't get to within a game or two of the Superbowl every year.

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Why can't you honestly critique Brady's performance??

We don't "expect otherworldy performances every year" from Tom Brady.
What we do expect is for this player, who is touted as the best of all time by many, we expect him to be able to make a throw to an open receiver when the play is there. There were open receivers and plays to be made and the HOF QB did not get it done yesterday. This has been a recurring playoff theme with Brady for years now. Just be honest. So tired of the blind cheerleading for TB. Sadly Tom's past reputation can't carry this team.

How many of Manning's recievers were in double digits for touchdowns this season?
How many of Brady's were in double digits for touchdowns this season?

The fact the Broncos stuffed the run, our secondary was screwed as soon as Welker took Talib out with that illegal pick, and the above noted fact all added up to being outmanned and outgunned. This team played it's heart out all year but finally the injuries just caught up to them.

To those bashing Brady, think about this.

In a few years Brady will be gone. Will the Patriots be fortunate enough to draft another stud QB like an Andrew Luck or an Aaron Rodgers or an RGIII?
The odds of that are pretty low. Instead ask yourself what it would be like to be say a Bills fan (who are still trying to find a replacment for Jim Kelly, or even worse a Jets fan. they're still looking for the second coming of Namath).

We should be so fortunate to have Brady for a few more seasons. He's still an elite QB. He just needs a better supporting cast around him. The Patriots cannot just rely on him to carry them every season.

Saw the highlights again,those could have resulted in 3 or 7 points,Those are the type of play that Tom Brady or any NFL QB should make in his sleep, but I'm not convinced we would have won the game. The only thing Manning did wrong was mishandling the snap in the first quarter after that most if not all of his possession resulted into points. That was total dominance, we got outplay pretty badly on all phases, although Edelman was a stud as usual. That's just football , if you watch any game tape there will always be missed plays.