OT-ESPN's First Take Discuss Top 10 All Time QB's.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

There's already a Skip Bayless thread on this forum from just a few weeks ago where a number of posters, myself included, give any number of reasons why Skip Bayless is a hated person.

If the ENTIRE basis for whether or not you like/respect someone is whether or not they are a Pats fan, then sure, Skip is fine. If you value anything like character, diligence, researching topics, and not being a complete shockjock troll who tries to rile people up for ratings, then he is a borderline despicable person who sucks at his job.

It's fine that he likes Tom Brady. But whether or not you agree with one of his takes should not be the end all be all evaluation of this tool. Do a modicum of research and it's easy to see why Skip Bayless is so reviled.

It is beyond strange to me that many on this board base their entire evaluation of whether or not people are good at their job on whether or not they like the Patriots. Bill Barnwell is hated by many on this site because he is a Giants fan, despite the fact that he is a very good football writer. People are not idiots solely if they pick the Pats to lose, and they're not geniuses solely if they pick the Pats to win. Maybe that's just me.

Also 1st and 10 is, in my opinion, the absolute bottom of the barrel show in sports television. Two absolute trolls shouting at each other and they just so happen to never agree. Hmm, I wonder if that's because it's more compelling TV? I never watch, ever.

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Galeb said:

I shall clarify. Opinions ranking Favre over Manning should be immediately dismissed by knowledgeable football fans.

Favre has thrown 60 more INTs than any other QB in NFL history. Manning is one of the 5 best QBs of all time. If you honestly believe Favre is one of the 10 best of all time, there is no possibility of having an intelligent conversation about QBs with you.

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Deus Irae said:

This clarifies nothing. If you want to toss out the INTs, I'll point out that Manning has more one-and-done playoff losses than any QB in history and is sub .500 in the playoffs, while Favre is 2 games over .500.


And Manning's not a top 5 QB of all time. The top 6 are locked in, and he's not there. The top 6, in alphabetical order, are:

Baugh
Brady
Graham
Montana
Starr
Unitas

You want to argue Manning over other greats like Elway, Favre, Young Staubach, etc... for the 7&8 spots, I'll listen. You want to argue Peyton over the top 6, you're talking nonsense.

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PATS16N0 said:

The audio is here
First Take - ESPN

TL;CL (can't listen):
Skip's list:
1. Montana
2. Brady
3. Roger Staubach
4. John Elway
5. Bret Favre
6. Peyton Manning
7.
8.
9.
10.

Steven A's list:
1. Montana
2. Brady
3. Elway
4. Peyton Manning
5. Dan Marino.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

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Galeb said:

I'll concede that it can be reasonably argued that Peyton isn't top 5, but he's not far off and there is a decent argument putting him in the top 5 too.

You have to be careful how much you weigh championships in your argument. They are certainly important, but there used to be a lot less teams and a lot less games. Throw in free agency and a salary cap, and winning multiple championships is dramatically more difficult in the modern NFL.

If I weighed championships as heavily as you seem to in your top 6, there is a good chance Favre wouldn't even make the top 20. In the modern era, td/int ratio and % passes intercepted are the two most important individual stats for a qb. All time, Favre ranks 25 in td/int ratio and 64th in % of passes intercepted.

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Deus Irae said:

Here's reality. Favre v. Manning is a perfectly legitimate comparison, and one where reasonable people can disagree. Your blindnes to that means that, in your words, "there is no possibility of having an intelligent conversation about QBs with you." The same is true of your claim that there's a decent argument for putting Manning in the top 5.

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Galeb said:

Coolguy agrees with you. I rest my case.

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Deus Irae said:

Coolguy is irrelevant. History disagrees with you. I rest my case.

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Deus Irae said:

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Favre should be rated higher than Manning. I think it's an interesting comparison, and I'd have both behind the 6 I mentioned, Steve Young, Roger Staubach and John Elway to start off.

I'd probably be looking to slot them in a group that consists of

Manning
Favre
Marino
Bradshaw
Dawson
Moon
Tarkenton
Kelly
Aikman
Luckman
Van Brocklin

and say that it's too soon for me to get a clear read on Brees and Rodgers, for different reasons.

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coolguy said:

Manning has been surrounded by great talent his whole career, while favre was pulling a "brady" before tom brady.

Favre biggest injustice was he overestimated his receivers abilities and that led to most of his interceptions.

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Deus Irae said:

Be fair now....


Favre made a lot of boneheaded throws.

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Deus Irae said:

This clarifies nothing. If you want to toss out the INTs, I'll point out that Manning has more one-and-done playoff losses than any QB in history and is sub .500 in the playoffs, while Favre is 2 games over .500.


And Manning's not a top 5 QB of all time. The top 6 are locked in, and he's not there. The top 6, in alphabetical order, are:

Baugh
Brady
Graham
Montana
Starr
Unitas

You want to argue Manning over other greats like Elway, Favre, Young Staubach, etc... for the 7&8 spots, I'll listen. You want to argue Peyton over the top 6, you're talking nonsense.

Click to expand...