Belichick's unexpected Bronco's gameplan

PP2 said:

That is what I am also expecting, because Manning hates not being the center of the offense (or the attention). Sure he'll play along with feeding the run for a little while, but at some point he'll get antsy and want to throw again.

We've had our problems with him but one thing we've excelled at more than any other team is staying disciplined defensively speaking, and rarely tipping our hands, and giving Manning much to read into our intentions on any given snap.

Speaking of which, I am sure that at this point, BB has already figured out what the nomenclature of Manning's "Omaha" is, from their last game.

I'm still trying to figure out what it is- for the most part it seemed to have preceded "hut" which ordinarily would give it the "live" designation, but then he used "omaha set hut" a few times and nothing happened except the Chargers went offsides. On those occasions it was before a hard count, so "omaha" may have been just a dummy call in itself to draw attention away from what was being used as the "live" designator.

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Omaha, in this case, indicates the snap count. Normally Omaha means snap at next sound. But then they change it to not mean that.
Sort of like "Set, Hut" where Omaha = Set. What Denver does is essentially always going on 1, then later they change it to 2.

I think vereen will be an X factor this week. I would like to see some screens and him lined up as a receiver. Play action screen would be nice to see with him sneaking out after the run fake. It takes time for it to set up but Denver is missing Miller and our o-line has been playing well.

AndyJohnson said:

Omaha, in this case, indicates the snap count. Normally Omaha means snap at next sound. But then they change it to not mean that.
Sort of like "Set, Hut" where Omaha = Set. What Denver does is essentially always going on 1, then later they change it to 2.

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You are thinking of the way Brady used "Omaha" in '11, and that is not how Manning used it in the last game.

Anyway my thoughts on "omaha" was more a musing on my part, not framed as a question towards anyone in particular. I don't expect that there is anyone reading these board who has inside information on what the designation of that word was.

It's not like the Patriots invented it. Omaha is a pretty standard football cadence that's been around forever that means "disregard the snap count, snap the ball on the next sound." It's usually done when the play clock is running low and the quarterback needs to get the play off - in other words, there's no mystery for the defense, who know the ball is either being snapped or the offense is getting flagged, so it's just a way to communicate to the center who may not see the play clock.

I thought Denver changing it up at times was a pretty clever move.

primetime said:

It's not like the Patriots invented it. Omaha is a pretty standard football cadence that's been around forever that means "disregard the snap count, snap the ball on the next sound." It's usually done when the play clock is running low and the quarterback needs to get the play off - in other words, there's no mystery for the defense, who know the ball is either being snapped or the offense is getting flagged, so it's just a way to communicate to the center who may not see the play clock.

I thought Denver changing it up at times was a pretty clever move.

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The issue with that, as with Andy's misconception that Omaha means "on one" (which is pretty old to start with, anyway) is that Manning on several snaps used that word with as much as 20 left on the playclock and issued plenty of verbiage after that.

I was just reading up on this, and came across a suggestion that it was the inflection of the word that dictated what it meant.. e.g. O-ma-ha or o-ma-HA.

Interesting thought there..

That wouldn't surprise me. Pretty clever, all in all.

PP2 said:

I was just reading up on this, and came across a suggestion that it was the inflection of the word that dictated what it meant.. e.g. O-ma-ha or o-ma-HA.

Interesting thought there..

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That is very interesting and never really thought about it based on inflection... In any case, IMO, the Pat's are coached well enough and are disciplined to go on the ball and to not read into anything else PM does as it changes from game to game.

The pats run the ball behind solder, the truth is solder can't be stopped. He is so good in the run game now. If solder plays well we break 150 yards on the ground.

This stuff will drive you crazy if you really try to figure it out, like Howe did it the other night. We used different stuff for football each game. And when I played Rugby, the code on the lineouts really made you think (and you'd hope your scrumhalf knew ho to spell). The code phrase was "Derby F**** Nottingham" and any word beginning with a letter in Derby meant the ball was coming to the 2 man, F**** meant the 4 man, any word beginning with a letter in Nottingham meant the 6 man, and any brand name cigarette, alcohol or drug meant a long ball to the scrum half.

Not only could no one ever figure out what the play call was, but we confused ourselves often!!!

PP2 said:

That is what I am also expecting, because Manning hates not being the center of the offense (or the attention). Sure he'll play along with feeding the run for a little while, but at some point he'll get antsy and want to throw again.

We've had our problems with him but one thing we've excelled at more than any other team is staying disciplined defensively speaking, and rarely tipping our hands, and giving Manning much to read into our intentions on any given snap.

Speaking of which, I am sure that at this point, BB has already figured out what the nomenclature of Manning's "Omaha" is, from their last game.

I'm still trying to figure out what it is- for the most part it seemed to have preceded "hut" which ordinarily would give it the "live" designation, but then he used "omaha set hut" a few times and nothing happened except the Chargers went offsides. On those occasions it was before a hard count, so "omaha" may have been just a dummy call in itself to draw attention away from what was being used as the "live" designator.

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As an aside, didn't Eli used to shout "Omaha" before the snap?

JPsPats said:

I think vereen will be an X factor this week. I would like to see some screens and him lined up as a receiver. Play action screen would be nice to see with him sneaking out after the run fake. It takes time for it to set up but Denver is missing Miller and our o-line has been playing well.

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X-factor neesds to hold on to the ball or he'll be called the goat factor. I was not impressed with Vereen's game Saturday wished we had Woodhead back.

Triumph said:

If the Pats do that they will lose.

If NE scores in 1 minute Manning will score in 5 - 6 minutes in a hurry up offense that will take its toll on the NE defense over the course of the game.

Belichick is not that stupid to be in a hurry to give Manning more opportunities so that he can wear down the NE defense. By the 4th quarter the Pats defense would be spent and Manning would have a holiday scorching the NE DBs and LBs.

The Pats do not have the passing game to win a shootout. BB will take a page from Parcells game plan vs the Jim offense in the Super Bowl and grind it out with what the Pats do have and thats a punishing run game that sets up play action.

The Broncos will have to respect the run and that will open passing opportunities.

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Are you serious? That was BB's gameplan.

Patjew said:

Are you serious? That was BB's gameplan.

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I would have to assume that if he did have a "grind it out" gameplan (Parcells, of course) on offense, it would have been more due to the personnel that they had, and the way that they relied on their defense much more than their offense throughout the course of the year.

We do know that they had the ball for over 40 minutes during that game in an attempt to help limit BUF and Kelly's potent offense, and that the NYG were forced to have to start backup QB Jeff Hostetler, so it very well may have been their offensive gameplan.

As great as both O/D gameplans were, it's almost scary to think that they still almost lost with the Norwood FG miss, and only won by a single point in the end.

PatsFan2 said:

X-factor neesds to hold on to the ball or he'll be called the goat factor. I was not impressed with Vereen's game Saturday wished we had Woodhead back.

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As a whole, I am not as "down" on the loss of Woodhead as some others may be due to the fact that Vereen actually had more receptions here in only 8 games, than Woodhead had all last year here in 16. Had Vereen not broken his wrist, he very well may have put up another 30 catches too, and ended up having more than 75-80 receptions in our offense (especially this season).

On top of that he actually had a better YPC average on runs than 2012 Woodhead, at 4.7 vs 4.0. Even the rushing totals were relatively close despite the fact that Vereen only played in 8 games this year vs Woodhead's full 16 last season, although he did not score as many rushing TD's as Woodhead, as Vereen was behind by 3. They both actually had the same number of receiving TD's with 3. I respect the fact that Belichick went with the younger, faster, cheaper player for the future, and simply couldn't match SD's offer to Woodhead.

The aspect that Vereen needs to work on the most is probably the fact that just about every game he seems to drop at least one pass. It seems like that as many great plays as he makes, he offsets a bit by continuing to drop balls. Some felt that it was due to his soft cast still being on at first, but that excuse hasn't held up in the past month or so once he had it removed. I

If Vereen can improve upon that weakness, he may have the potential to be a better talent overall for the future, and the kind of player that is showcased more moving forward.

PP2 said:

You are thinking of the way Brady used "Omaha" in '11, and that is not how Manning used it in the last game.

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No I'm talking about how Manning used it Sunday.

Anyway my thoughts on "omaha" was more a musing on my part, not framed as a question towards anyone in particular. I don't expect that there is anyone reading these board who has inside information on what the designation of that word was.

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The designation was that it meant go on next sound.
Later they changed it to not mean that and got the offsides penalties.
Its a fact.

PP2 said:

The issue with that, as with Andy's misconception that Omaha means "on one" (which is pretty old to start with, anyway) is that Manning on several snaps used that word with as much as 20 left on the playclock and issued plenty of verbiage after that.

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Andy doesnt have a misconception. Cris Carter went through the whole thing earlier this weak.
It was intially snap on next sound. Then they changed it and that drew the Chargers offsides.

I was just reading up on this, and came across a suggestion that it was the inflection of the word that dictated what it meant.. e.g. O-ma-ha or o-ma-HA.

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That sounds far fetched. Typically the key word is based only on the first letter, ie he could call Ohio and it would mean the same thing.
Teams do in fact have a word that signifies the play call is on, and another that signifies when to snap.
They change them. Omaha means different things at different times.

AndyJohnson said:

Andy doesnt have a misconception. Cris Carter went through the whole thing earlier this weak.
It was intially snap on next sound. Then they changed it and that drew the Chargers offsides.


That sounds far fetched. Typically the key word is based only on the first letter, ie he could call Ohio and it would mean the same thing.
Teams do in fact have a word that signifies the play call is on, and another that signifies when to snap.
They change them. Omaha means different things at different times.

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While we're on the subject, what are your feelings regarding some of our one word calls in terms of needing to be changed at times?

I am sure that there have been many of times where you sit at home and know exactly what the playcall is going to be based on that one word, as I know I surely do. When my wife pointed it out before the snap this past week, I knew it was even more obvious than it should be, since she's well...my wife and doesn't seem to be attention to things like that as closely as I do.

Why is it that they don't change our one word calls up per half? Isn't it sometimes pushing the envelope a bit to keep the same word throughout the game? The only example where it may not have mattered would be the SF game from last season where Brady kept using the QB sneak, and it probably doesn't matter as much with that.

The one word calls can be anything and I wouldn't use the first letter as the key as that would be easy to pick up on. I would like to think the NFL coaches would be more creative than that. I coach a youth football team and for dummy cadence calls we use names of local high schools. Our QB will shout out the name of the high school and that means its a dummy count and not to move until you hear the counter call in our case "easy" then the play was back on and it was on one.

mgcolby said:

The one word calls can be anything and I wouldn't use the first letter as the key as that would be easy to pick up on. I would like to think the NFL coaches would be more creative than that. I coach a youth football team and for dummy cadence calls we use names of local high schools. Our QB will shout out the name of the high school and that means its a dummy count and not to move until you hear the counter call in our case "easy" then the play was back on and it was on one.

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Have you noticed any over using of the one word calls by us lately? I have at least a few times. I wonder why they don't change them up at the half or something? EDIT: I would imagine that this couldn't be an option due to having to practice for several days. Another option could be to have another one word call that replicates the play, however.

I suppose ultimately it doesn't matter (maybe), but I've wondered if it doesn't act as a tip off sometimes.

For what it's worth--I posted a link to a somewhat recent article that stated that we have approx. 5 or 6 one word calls implemented into the weekly gameplan per week. Those five or six one word calls give the assignments to all aspects of every one of the 11 players' various responsibilities, OL blocking assignments, snap counts, wide receiver blocking and specific routes, etc.

JPsPats said:

I think vereen will be an X factor this week. I would like to see some screens and him lined up as a receiver. Play action screen would be nice to see with him sneaking out after the run fake. It takes time for it to set up but Denver is missing Miller and our o-line has been playing well.

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Pay no attention to Patsfan2, he thinks every player on this team sucks.

I agree, Vereen is going to see a good deal of action this week and we will be talking about this contributions come Monday. I won't be the least bit surprised if he is over 100 yards with a TD.