Hallelujah!!! Woody announces Rex is returning in 2014

Tunescribe said:

Nonsense. THIS is how your hero Wrecks "out-coached" BB: It was New England's first game without Mayo and with Hightower calling defensive signals. Also no Talib and no Gregory, with Arrington starting out of position at safety. FOUR ROOKIES starting in OLB Collins, CB Ryan, and interior DL Chris Jones and Vellano. The defense was an uncoordinated mess due to INJURIES. Despite that, New Jersey out-gained New England by just 88 yards including 10 minutes of overtime. (And if you want to extend the injury situation to offense, consider Amendola was still out.)

This idea of Wrecks tipping off the refs pre-game to the Pats' field goal defense violation is unconfirmed myth reinforced by the FACT that New Jersey did the same thing against the Pats in the same game and it was not called. The Chris Jones "push" was a highly questionable (non-blatant) call. It later was reported that DL pushing on FG tries was a league-mandated point of emphasis for that week and the refs were trigger happy about it at the wrong time, especially considering their missing the same foul committed by earlier New Jersey. That flag is not thrown and the Patriots likely win despite being severely undermanned.

The fact remains that Wrecks is 4-7 vs. New England. He is a solid defensive coach who knows and cares little about offense; that is why most of us are glad he's returning.

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4-7 is bad when considering Sanchez and Geno vs. Tom Brady??? What is the rest of the league against the Patriots over that time? 15-75? Sad that your dislike for Rex prevents you from giving credit where it is due. I don't know if it was you or someone else in this thread that tried to remove all credit for the back to back AFCCG appearances because: 1. San Diego had a bad kicker and 2. (my personal favorite) "they were Mangini's players". So, I guess BB should get no credit for his super bowls because he won largely with Carroll and Parcells guys as well as free agents coached up by their former employers? Talk about nonsense.

Recall that, before Tom Brady fell into his lap (thanks to **** Rehbein), Absolutely NOBODY thought BB knew ANYTHING about offense. Strange how a Hall of Fame QB can change that perception.

I've had enough of discussing this issue with people here who only argue from personal bias. Let's see how this plays out over the next few years. If the Jets aren't a thorn in our side, I will happily eat crow.

letekro said:

Ken, there is so much wrong here I don't have time to get to all of it. Just a few notes:

Ryan is 46-40 in his first 5 years, with two visits to the AFCCG. BB was 37-45 in his first five, with no visits to the AFCCG. As I have said record doesn't tell the story of a head coach, but Rex's record is not as bad as you say.

It is ridiculous to not give him credit for the playoff victories because they got help getting into the playoffs and because they benefitted from missed FGs. If that is the case the 2011 Giants and 2007 Giants should be stripped of their titles and they should promptly be awarded to the Patriots.

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There isn't much right in this statement either, buddy. Your comparison to BB's first 5 years is simply ludicrous. Rex inherited a winning football team that included the best OL in the NFL, 2 excellent RB's and as much defensive talent as anyone in the league. In Cleveland BB inherited the worst team in the league and built it into a playoff team, in an era when building a team took years. BTW- IIRC, the Browns were 4-1 when Art Modell dropped his bomb on Cleveland. With the Pats he inherited a team that had zero depth and was in cap hell. A team viewed as being so bad, Pro Football Weekly named it the team LEAST likely to get to a superbowl in the next 5 years, just prior to the start of the 2001 season.

I've never said Rex isn't a good coach. By definition EVERY coach who manages to make it to the NFL level is a good coach. Its the highest level of the game. But please don't compare Rex's and BB HCing starts, they are completely different situations.

As for you comment that Rex doesn't have any offensive talent. Whose fault is that. Are you like Ray who give Rex credit for every draft pick that works out and blames the GM for the losers. In 2010 the Jets had a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball, who do you blame for its disappearance.

You also seem to gloss over Rex's game management issues. They may all love Rex THIS year, but just last year he didn't have a clue about his own team which melted down at the end of the season. I mean this is the HC who made Santonio Holmes a CAPTAIN for God's sake. This is a HC who has continually made statements that have put his own team under the gun, including calling his 2012 team the most talented he's had. The list is endless and you know them as well as I.

I repeat, Rex is not bereft of coaching skills, but he has enough serious flaws that I strongly believe that he will never seriously threaten the Pats dominance of the division. Those threats are likely to come elsewhere. The Greenbeans are going to have their occasional days in the sun with us, but for the next 3 or 4 years the so called "gap" isn't going to be closing that much, and part of that reason will be Rex Ryan, Rex's skills set and mentality are not conducive to long term continued success....as the last 5 years have shown. He's too bombastic, full of himself, and unaware. If you are a mediot, you love him to death, but that shouldn't be his core audience.

I'm not sure at all about idzig. You have to love the Richarson pick, Milliner, not so much, but its early on him. You have to worry about the whole Idzig/Ryan dynamic and how it will play out. Who is in charge there? Will Rex get an extension? Should he?

IMHO, you were right to defend Rex, because some of the comments after the news hit were overstated. But you turned it into a crusade that is unjustified

letekro said:

4-7 is bad when considering Sanchez and Geno vs. Tom Brady??? What is the rest of the league against the Patriots over that time? 15-75? Sad that your dislike for Rex prevents you from giving credit where it is due. I don't know if it was you or someone else in this thread that tried to remove all credit for the back to back AFCCG appearances because: 1. San Diego had a bad kicker and 2. (my personal favorite) "they were Mangini's players". So, I guess BB should get no credit for his super bowls because he won largely with Carroll and Parcells guys as well as free agents coached up by their former employers? Talk about nonsense.

Recall that, before Tom Brady fell into his lap (thanks to **** Rehbein), Absolutely NOBODY thought BB knew ANYTHING about offense. Strange how a Hall of Fame QB can change that perception.

I've had enough of discussing this issue with people here who only argue from personal bias. Let's see how this plays out over the next few years. If the Jets aren't a thorn in our side, I will happily eat crow.

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Personal bias? I thought my fact-based rebuttal to your glorification of how New Jersey "dismantled" the Patriots in this season's second meeting was spot on. I've given him ample "credit where credit is due," and the ONLY credit due him is as a defensive coach. He is poor head coach material. (BTW, it was not I who made those AFCCG/Mangini references you cited.)

Tunescribe said:

Personal bias? I thought my fact-based rebuttal to your glorification of how New Jersey "dismantled" the Patriots in this season's second meeting was spot on. I've given him ample "credit where credit is due," and the ONLY credit due him is as a defensive coach. He is poor head coach material. (BTW, it was not I who made those AFCCG/Mangini references you cited.)

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I'm aware that we had guys out. You didn't have to give me the specifics of that. But the Jets' guys, outside of their DL, while healthy, just weren't very good. Most importantly, we had Tom Brady while they had Geno Smith making his sixth start.

So, while your response was factual, it didn't address my point, which was that the Jets outplayed the Pats with less talent. My apologies for lumping you with those that will not even give credit for the Jets' playoff successes.

letekro said:

4-7 is bad when considering Sanchez and Geno vs. Tom Brady??? What is the rest of the league against the Patriots over that time? 15-75? Sad that your dislike for Rex prevents you from giving credit where it is due. I don't know if it was you or someone else in this thread that tried to remove all credit for the back to back AFCCG appearances because: 1. San Diego had a bad kicker and 2. (my personal favorite) "they were Mangini's players". So, I guess BB should get no credit for his super bowls because he won largely with Carroll and Parcells guys as well as free agents coached up by their former employers? Talk about nonsense.

Recall that, before Tom Brady fell into his lap (thanks to **** Rehbein), Absolutely NOBODY thought BB knew ANYTHING about offense. Strange how a Hall of Fame QB can change that perception.

I've had enough of discussing this issue with people here who only argue from personal bias. Let's see how this plays out over the next few years. If the Jets aren't a thorn in our side, I will happily eat crow.

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Talk about utter nonsense. You want to give all the credit you can muster to Wrecks, yet none to BB because he has TFB as his QB. What? No credit goes out to Belichick for developing this guy into one of the GOAT? Please. You should leave now. Your argument is beyond foolish.

patfanken said:

There isn't much right in this statement either, buddy. Your comparison to BB's first 5 years is simply ludicrous. Rex inherited a winning football team that included the best OL in the NFL, 2 excellent RB's and as much defensive talent as anyone in the league. In Cleveland BB inherited the worst team in the league and built it into a playoff team, in an era when building a team took years. BTW- IIRC, the Browns were 4-1 when Art Modell dropped his bomb on Cleveland. With the Pats he inherited a team that had zero depth and was in cap hell. A team viewed as being so bad, Pro Football Weekly named it the team LEAST likely to get to a superbowl in the next 5 years, just prior to the start of the 2001 season.

I've never said Rex isn't a good coach. By definition EVERY coach who manages to make it to the NFL level is a good coach. Its the highest level of the game. But please don't compare Rex's and BB HCing starts, they are completely different situations.

As for you comment that Rex doesn't have any offensive talent. Whose fault is that. Are you like Ray who give Rex credit for every draft pick that works out and blames the GM for the losers. In 2010 the Jets had a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball, who do you blame for its disappearance.

You also seem to gloss over Rex's game management issues. They may all love Rex THIS year, but just last year he didn't have a clue about his own team which melted down at the end of the season. I mean this is the HC who made Santonio Holmes a CAPTAIN for God's sake. This is a HC who has continually made statements that have put his own team under the gun, including calling his 2012 team the most talented he's had. The list is endless and you know them as well as I.

I repeat, Rex is not bereft of coaching skills, but he has enough serious flaws that I strongly believe that he will never seriously threaten the Pats dominance of the division. Those threats are likely to come elsewhere. The Greenbeans are going to have their occasional days in the sun with us, but for the next 3 or 4 years the so called "gap" isn't going to be closing that much, and part of that reason will be Rex Ryan, Rex's skills set and mentality are not conducive to long term continued success....as the last 5 years have shown. He's too bombastic, full of himself, and unaware. If you are a mediot, you love him to death, but that shouldn't be his core audience.

I'm not sure at all about idzig. You have to love the Richarson pick, Milliner, not so much, but its early on him. You have to worry about the whole Idzig/Ryan dynamic and how it will play out. Who is in charge there? Will Rex get an extension? Should he?

IMHO, you were right to defend Rex, because some of the comments after the news hit were overstated. But you turned it into a crusade that is unjustified

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Ken, if you are saying that Rex is a pretty good coach then we are largely in agreement. It only became a crusade because of some outlandish arguments made against that point.

True, Beli inherited a bad team, but he also had a bad record (3 losing seasons in a row after playoffs in year 2). While Rex inherited a good team (and he had great results with it notwithstanding a bad QB) it was an aging, overpriced one. While rebuilding the team in years 3-5, his record has suffered. My point is that you have to look at more than just the record when evaluating a coach. It seems you are in full agreement with that as well, so I don't think we have much to argue about.

Rex may have toned down his more blowhardish bravado over the past year or so, but the Jets are still a very undisciplined team and will never be great as long as that is the case. They commit a ton of dumb penalties and they can't sustain the discipline to win in the long term. They win one game and suddenly they think they are headed for the SuperBowl. Then they lose focus and get blown out the next week and come back to earth. This applies especially when it comes to the Pats. Rex is still obsessed with Belichick and the Pats and when he beats us, it IS their SuperBowl. Then he gets a Gatorade shower for going 8-8.

Even toned-down (literally and figuratively) Rex is good enough for another year of sheer entertainment!! Here's to another yearly Jets Suck thread!! :rocker:

It's also very telling, that the one team who knew him best, The Ravens, wanted no part of him to lead their team when he was considered for the vacancy. Good DC....horribly incomplete as a HC.

We all need to thank our lucky stars that Woody is as clueless as an owner and didn't make a play for someone last year when he brought in Idzik. Imaging the thorn in our side the Jets could be next year with 42 million in cap space, 12 draft picks, and Chip Kelly as the HC.

goheels22002 said:

Can you remind us again what it is about missing the playoffs and not having a winning season three years in a row that convinces you that Rex Ryan is a competent head coach?

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letekro said:

You should ask Bob Kraft this exact question in relation to his hiring of Belichick in 2000.

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Ok, you've got to be trolling.


Bill Belichick took his team to the playoffs the year before he got fired. How do we know this?

1.) It's in the records

2.) The Browns beat the Patriots in a playoff game that year.


Not only that, but you're ignoring this little tidbit: despite taking his team to the playoffs in 1994, and despite the turmoil of the team move and all that went with it in 1995, Belichick was fired from his job as H.C. in 1995 and didn't get another H.C. job for 5 years. It's bad enough that you're making lousy arguments. It's even worse when you miss something as obvious as this.

Deus Irae said:

Ok, you've got to be trolling.


Bill Belichick took his team to the playoffs the year before he got fired. How do we know this?

1.) It's in the records

2.) The Browns beat the Patriots in a playoff game that year.


Not only that, but you're ignoring this little tidbit: despite taking his team to the playoffs in 1994, and despite the turmoil of the team move and all that went with it in 1995, Belichick was fired from his job as H.C. in 1995 and didn't get another H.C. job for 5 years. It's bad enough that you're making lousy arguments. It's even worse when you miss something as obvious as this.

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I misread the record. You're right he made the playoffs in year 4 with CLE and not year 2 as I said. Not sure how that changes my arguments and don't understand the relevance of him not getting a coaching job for 5 years.

letekro said:

I misread the record. You're right he made the playoffs in year 4 with CLE and not year 2 as I said. Not sure how that changes my arguments and don't understand the relevance of him not getting a coaching job for 5 years.

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It changes your argument because you essentially claimed the situation was exactly the same when it wasn't, when you wrote "You should ask Bob Kraft this exact question in relation to his hiring of Belichick in 2000". That's not just misreading the record, that's trying to build an argument on something that reads almost precisely the opposite of what you're claiming.

The relevance of the job is that BB got canned just a year out from 11-5 and the playoffs and took 5 years to get back, and yet you're blowing kisses to Ryan when he's been

8-8
6-10
8-8

in his last 3 seasons.


Belichick took a 3 win team that was in a state of rapid decline post-Schottenheimer and led it to better, and improving, football (6 wins, 7 wins, 7 wins, 11 wins, 3-1 start) before the wheels fell off in the moving year.


Ryan's taken what was already a good team (8-3 before the Favre injury) and gone 9-7, 11-5, 8-8, 6-10, 8-8. Hell, Mangini was fired after 2 winning seasons in 3 years and Edwards was fired after 3 winning seasons in 5 years yet, somehow, Ryan should be safe after 2 winning seasons (one a complete fluke because of teams resting players) in 5 years?

Other than, arguably, Al Groh (who got 9-7 out of the Jets in his one season), Rex Ryan is the worst head coach the Jets have had since Rich Kotite.

Deus Irae said:

Ryan's taken what was already a good team (8-3 before the Favre injury) and gone 9-7, 11-5, 8-8, 6-10, 8-8.

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This is where you lost me. A team that went 4-12 in the prior year without a HOF QB, 8-3 to start the next season with a healthy HOF QB, and 1-4 with an injured HOF QB is an "already good team"? Even when said HOF QB is replaced by a mediocre rookie when Ryan takes the helm?

realtime said:

This is where you lost me. A team that went 4-12 in the prior year without a HOF QB, 8-3 to start the next season with a healthy HOF QB, and 1-4 with an injured HOF QB is an "already good team"? Even when said HOF QB is replaced by a mediocre rookie when Ryan takes the helm?

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There was major turnover and improvement in NY beyond Favre, after all. Hell, just on defense:

Added:
Pace (over Hobson)
Jenkins (over Robertson)
Lowery & Law (over Poteat and Barrett)
Elam (over Rhodes)

No longer rookies:
Revis
DeVito
Harris

That's before you start looking at offensive changes like the additions of Richardson and Keller. So, yeah, "an already good team", and trending upwards at the time. If I lose you because I don't choose to ignore an entire season, I'm comfortable with that.

You can't get a clear picture just by looking at the Jets' win-loss records in a vacuum.

It's not Rex Ryan's fault that he got saddled with a quarterback the team traded up to draft #5 overall, who then turned out to be just godawful. I think Mike Tannenbaum deserves most of the blame for the Jets' downward trajectory.

The Jets' defenses were consistently good, often over-performing their talent level -- something they were so often forced to do because of Tannenbaum's penchant for bewildering trades and constantly shedding future picks to trade up in every draft left the team with a top-heavy roster, but more in terms of money and draft picks invested than in actual talent.

The way Ryan has handled less high-profile underachievers makes me suspect that, given the freedom, he'd have had 2nd and 3rd string QBs who would have given Sanchez legitimate competition at the spot. And let's not even get into Tannenbaum's Tebow clusterf!$%$.

Ryan's shown himself to be a very good game-day coach, and if a GM ever leaves him unshackled to a floundering young QB, I think a Rex-Ryan coached Jets could be serious competition for the Pats.

lamafist said:

You can't get a clear picture just by looking at the Jets' win-loss records in a vacuum.

It's not Rex Ryan's fault that he got saddled with a quarterback the team traded up to draft #5 overall, who then turned out to be just godawful.

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Yes, it is. Sanchez was Ryan's handpicked choice.

On the one hand, the guy has mastered the ability to do just barely enough to hang onto his job. If he had lost to the Phins yesterday, he would have been fired in my opinion. On the other hand, I think that finishing 8-8 with a few good wins, including the Pats game is pretty respectful given they've got a rookie QB and not a whole lot of talent on any side of the ball.

Rex is so good that he thinks his team is going to win the Super Bowl every year. If he's that good, then why can't he figure out his team sucks?

The blame lands on everyone but Rex year after year when it's Rex making stupid claims. How about his "greatest players ever" claim that he makes for about 5 or 6 guys every year? Yeah, Millner's going to be the best corner by end of the season...(lol)

Oh, and the "they beat the Pats" crap is dumb. They're a division opponent. They should get a few wins. The fins own Rex so what does that say? If people love him for beating the Pats a few times, then what does it say that he gets smoked most of the time against the fins.

Sounds like frontrunner whining to me. Who cares if he's good enough to steal a couple. They are the Jets and will find ways to squander anything they are given.

Rex certainly is a strange character.
It's almost like the Jests and Rex deserve each other.

Looks like a win-win-win all around for Woody, Rex and PatsFans.

When I look at the current coaching vacancies and the available candidates it might have been the right move.

8-8 with that roster and QB looks almost respectable.

lamafist said:

Ryan's shown himself to be a very good game-day coach,....

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You're not the only one to make this claim in this thread, but really, what games are you watching? I see most of the Jets games and what I see is a HC that has horrible in game skills. He routinely mismanages the clock, botches his challenges, and screws up his time outs. I rarely see half time adjustments that work. His vaunted D often fails to get the needed stop to to put the game away. And when his offense is on the sideline, I never see him talking to, or coaching up his players.

The best I can say is he sometimes schemes up a good D against us, but even with all his assembled early round talent, even his defenses have been declining over the last few years. And none of this takes into account how his team is undisciplined and has a ridiculous number of stupid penalties on both sides of the ball.

Deus Irae said:

Ryan's taken what was already a good team (8-3 before the Favre injury) and gone 9-7, 11-5, 8-8, 6-10, 8-8. Hell, Mangini was fired after 2 winning seasons in 3 years and Edwards was fired after 3 winning seasons in 5 years yet, somehow, Ryan should be safe after 2 winning seasons (one a complete fluke because of teams resting players) in 5 years?

Other than, arguably, Al Groh (who got 9-7 out of the Jets in his one season), Rex Ryan is the worst head coach the Jets have had since Rich Kotite.

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That was the first time I've seen Rex Ryan placed in the same category as Richie Kotite. I love it.

You can also make the argument that Rex is the best Jets head coach of all time having coached more playoff games than any head coach and the most conference championship games in their grim and insecure history. List of New York Jets head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He's tied with Chuck Noll, George Halas and Jimmy Johnson at .666 winning percentage in the playoffs. NFL head coach playoff records - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia