Players and their ridiculous excuses for illegal hits

fumbrunner said:

Maybe guys need to learn to wrap up players in the "lower" target area rather than projecting themselves helmet/shoulder first. I agree that a 200 DB cannot be expected to hit a 260 lb TE in the midsection to try and tackle him. But wrap the guy up. You cant expect not to take out a knee if your head is down and you have no idea where you are projecting your body.

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I agree with this. There needs to be a cultural change from HS up as regards the tackle.

PatsFan2 said:

My Brother broke another kids ankle on a routine tackle in pop warner should he be suspended Da Bruins?

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No, I am sure he already suffers enough.

Ivan said:

No, I am sure he already suffers enough.

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You know when you said you were ducking out of the thread to keep it less contentious? Coming back in seven posts later to insult someone's role as a father is not really helping to achieve that. Can't we agree to at least keep poster's family lives off limits?.

Cookenbauer said:

Ward knows he can't go high anymore...the nfl has made it clear. Ward did get fined numerous times in the past for going high. So he's going a little lower now. To say he can't go too low and only hit in the middle is asking too much.

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and that is what is wrong with the NFL right now players only think in the extreme the "big Play" he wraps him up and there is another play with in 2 yards of him if they don't bring Gronk down then they did their best and Gronk was the better man on that play.

A.C Vegas said:

and that is what is wrong with the NFL right now players only think in the extreme the "big Play" he wraps him up and there is another play with in 2 yards of him if they don't bring Gronk down then they did their best and Gronk was the better man on that play.

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There is no way in hell that Ward was going to be able to wrap Gronk up on that play.

If I was Ward I would have tried to put my helmet on the ball. Good chance of forcing the turnover. He wasn't on an island.

I also think launching at a player's knee is as dirty as it gets. I don't care if you are tackling Danny Woodhead or William Perry.

A.C Vegas said:

and that is what is wrong with the NFL right now players only think in the extreme the "big Play" he wraps him up and there is another play with in 2 yards of him if they don't bring Gronk down then they did their best and Gronk was the better man on that play.

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People always say this...where is the proof that players are looking for the highlight play? I'd love to see the research that concludes this statement as fact.

The defenders job is to do everything in his power to prevent every inch of forward progress. That's exactly what ward did...and unfortunately the results were bad. Like I said earlier...one half second later...gronks knee isn't planted and simply flops over ward...and everyone claims how much of a beast gronk is.

manxman2601 said:

You know when you said you were ducking out of the thread to keep it less contentious? Coming back in seven posts later to insult someone's role as a father is not really helping to achieve that. Can't we agree to at least keep poster's family lives off limits?.

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I'm pretty sure he said it was his little brother, and he brought it up, I didn't. I am stepping out of this thread because I have no interest in arguing about this, but that doesn't mean I can't comment on a ridiculous comparison, which is what that was.

I can't stand the "NFL made me do it" readymade excuse these days. That's all I have to say about that hit. And hit is exactly what it was - blatant shoulder charge into the knee, it was not a tackle. His arms were in no position to tackle.

And those saying logan ryan did it too. I saw that and congratulated it in the game thread. I want our guys to perform that perfectly "legal" maneuver EVERY chance they get from now on, particularly on the best receivers of the opponent.

Ivan said:

I'm pretty sure he said it was his little brother, and he brought it up, I didn't. I am stepping out of this thread because I have no interest in arguing about this, but that doesn't mean I can't comment on a ridiculous comparison, which is what that was.

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My ageing memory failed me but regardless, I just don't family should be invoked when trying to insult someone. Won't say anymore on this. Had my say and am not going to push it.

manxman2601 said:

You know when you said you were ducking out of the thread to keep it less contentious? Coming back in seven posts later to insult someone's role as a father is not really helping to achieve that. Can't we agree to at least keep poster's family lives off limits?.

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BTW-In over 4,000 posts I have never said anything about anyone's family and wouldn't. that comment was directed at Patfan2, not a member of his family. Reading comprehension really helps, especially when you are going to level a charge like that.

fumbrunner said:

Maybe guys need to learn to wrap up players in the "lower" target area rather than projecting themselves helmet/shoulder first. I agree that a 200 DB cannot be expected to hit a 260 lb TE in the midsection to try and tackle him. But wrap the guy up. You cant expect not to take out a knee if your head is down and you have no idea where you are projecting your body.

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FTR-Had Ward made any attempt to wrap up Gronkowski's legs i would have seen it as an actual attempt to tackle him, but what he did instead was dive at his knees and drive his shoulder into his knee, imo that was not an attempt to tackle him it was an attemp to injure him, and it was successful.

Tackling a player on the move by taking his legs out from underneath him has been commonplace in football since the dawn of the NFL. In a great many situations, it simply gives the defender the best chance for success in making the tackle -- especially when coming from an angle at a receiver running in open-field.

In this case, the increased focus on penalizing defenders for shots to the head is just a red herring, a hot-button narrative in today's NFL coverage that's often invoked whether it fits the matter at hand or not.

There is no era of the NFL would trying to hit Gronk high have been a high percentage move for TJ Ward. Ward made the tackle how it always would have been, and in this case, Gronk had the misfortune of being unable to bend his knees and prepare for impact in time.

manxman2601 said:

You know when you said you were ducking out of the thread to keep it less contentious? Coming back in seven posts later to insult someone's role as a father is not really helping to achieve that. Can't we agree to at least keep poster's family lives off limits?.

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Ivan said:

BTW-In over 4,000 posts I have never said anything about anyone's family and wouldn't. that comment was directed at Patfan2, not a member of his family. Reading comprehension really helps, especially when you are going to level a charge like that.

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Doesn't it though. Despite getting the familial relationship wrong I never said you insulted his family, just his role/relationship within the family.

That was a legal hit.

I'd have done the same thing to tackle Gronk and I'm 6'4" 220

Do you really think these players don't watch film on him and see how impossible he is to bring down?

I don't like that it was a legal hit, but Ward did what he had to do.

Ninkovich is right (Deus #22), however, as stated before, Rugby players make that play routinely.

The hit was lazy (at best) and without regard to the player being tackled. The simple negligence argument (bad angle, no other way, the rules require going low - does that mean knee?) still makes it dirty. These rules (no head or launch) are the rules, adjust without hurting people. Players should be required to not slam out a guys knee with no attempt to wrap.

If you don't have an angle or he's too big .... too bad for you. Horse collars and face masks, can also fall under the "only way to take him down" mantra. It was a crap hit, just my opinion.

Aßßynormal said:

Ninkovich is right (Deus #22), however, as stated before, Rugby players make that play routinely.

The hit was lazy (at best) and without regard to the player being tackled. The simple negligence argument (bad angle, no other way, the rules require going low - does that mean knee?) still makes it dirty. These rules (no head or launch) are the rules, adjust without hurting people. Players should be required to not slam out a guys knee with no attempt to wrap.

If you don't have an angle or he's too big .... too bad for you. Horse collars and face masks, can also fall under the "only way to take him down" mantra. It was a crap hit, just my opinion.

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Dirty =/= illegal

If I was a Browns fan I'd have loved him for making that hit. Sucks that Gronk got hurt, but way to take him down one on one. Something few defenders in the league can do.

Additionally to what I said above, it's worth noting that in ever NFL season, somewhere between 75-95% of all ACL injuries occur in non-contact situations. Most of the time, a player's tears his ACL when mis-planting his foot while trying to make a sudden cut on the run. This is why you still see a lot of torn ACLs during training camp and preseason during non-contact drills.

Furthermore, low tackles aren't even responsible for most contact-related ligament tears, where the majority occur in the trenches when player's legs get caught and inadvertently rolled up on -- as often as not by a teammate.

Its clear to me who has played football and who has not played football by some of these posts. What Ward did was what any DB going up against a guy twice his size. The injury was just unfortunate. But some of you guys are crybabies. SMH.

If you think this should be legal, you have probably taken a few too many hits to the head. Seriously, hits to the side of the knee like that should be banned, no question. Going low from the front is one thing, you won't bend their knee 30 degrees in the wrong direction from the front. However, going in from the side like that should absolutely be illegal, because it's dangerous. Football is a violent game, but THIS:

Is not violence. It is ending someone's career. And don't tell me it's because of the concussion rules, there is no way he would have Gronk's head in that situation, he's probably not even tall enough. That is just being negligent and launching yourself at a guys knees instead of wrapping up. "B-b-b-b-but tackling Gronk is hard!" He's a football player, toughen the **** up.