That was pass interference

Patsrock said:

Sorry you are wrong about me. I had no problem with no call in Carolina and no problem with the McCourty call in Carolina. You don't jack about what I would say. You make assumptions on everyone here like this all the time.

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It's not an assumption, beyond assuming you actually know how a football game is called. My apologies for thinking you know how PI is supposed to be called based upon the words combined with the current interpretation and implementation. The call was clearly wrong in the Carolina game. The call was clearly wrong in the Browns game.


Neither was even close. In the future, I won't make the mistake of assuming you have an understanding of the rules.

Are Felger and Mazz in this thread ... :bricks:

IMO the ref calls it because he thinks McFadden restricts Boyce's left arm. Add in the fact that McFadden never played the ball or even attempted to look back. In this era that's the kind of stuff that gets called, however ticky-tack it may be.

It's easy to dissect it watching it over and over again but the ref sees it real-time and it's bang-bang you either leave the flag in or you throw it. He threw it.

JMC00 said:

IMO the ref calls it because he thinks McFadden restricts Boyce's left arm. Add in the fact that McFadden never played the ball or even attempted to look back. In this era that's the kind of stuff that gets called, however ticky-tack it may be.

It's easy to dissect it watching it over and over again but the ref sees it real-time and it's bang-bang you either leave the flag in or you throw it. He threw it.

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I think this is where I land on this debate.

Tough one cause I'd love to think this was a clean and untainted comeback. Hopefully that is indeed what it is.....

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

It was either

1) a blown call because there was no PI.

or

2) a blown call because the spot was wrong and it should have been spotted at the 9 yard line.

The contact at the 9 yard line is at least arguably significant. I can't find any way to call the contact in the end zone as significant, even with my Pats colored glasses on.

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Regarding #2, it still would have been on the 1 because the interference (if the ball was in the air) is a spot foul at the point of the "catch," I believe.
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Froob said:

Shouldn't have been in the endzone but, there was contact. There could have been pass interference called on that last play vs Atlanta that Talib broke up too. But, that's life. Pats haven't gotten a pass interference call in forever. Denver almost beat them because of it.

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Talib played the ball.
Those criticizing the call don't recognize that critical component of determining PI.

Maybe this is an argument for Bill's idea of challenging penalties...

Ivan said:

You clearly have not watched the Bronco's. If you cast a shadow on any of Manning's receivers it is pass interference plus a major and 5 minutes in the penalty box. If you actually touch them sharia law comes into effect and they start by lopping off a hand and get more and more extreme with each 'penalty."

Apparently this came with Manning from Indy, and his agent included it in the negotiations for his 90 million. Manning and the refs for a mere 20 million a year, not bad.

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It may shock you to learn that plenty of people from other fanbases feel the EXACT same way about Brady, that he gets preferential treatment...or the Patriots themselves do.

But those are just jealous, misguided souls, right? Just sour grapes. Meanwhile, you are just chagrined about Manning because that's truth.

You want to talk about conspiracies, do you have any idea what kind of positions of power Robert Kraft holds behind the scenes? That guy is negotiating **** where all the money comes from with monster billions-of-dollars TV money and the like.

Kraft is in bed with Steve Wynn, a Las Vegas casino mogul. Kraft wanted to open a casino with him...like a billion dollar one, from what I understand. Does that look good? An NFL team owner cavorting with perhaps the biggest name in Las Vegas? Any Pats fan that wants to actually cry about unfair treatment over time obviously hasn't been objectively following what actually happens from week-to-week in the rest of the NFL.

You'd have to be a fool to blindly accept that the NFL offers a level playing-field where everything is on the up-and-up all the time. Do you have any idea how much money is wagered on it every week?

sb1 said:

Maybe this is an argument for Bill's idea of challenging penalties...

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Actually this gives me an interesting thought. What if the referee responsible for making the call is allowed to review a play he felt he didn't have a good look at?
I'm sure that would open Pandora's box, but since most challenges look very different from different angles I am sure penalties calls would too.
I would not take judgment away from the ref, such as the one who made this call, but giving them the chance to see a replay and make sure what they think they saw is really what happened would be interesting.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

It was either

1) a blown call because there was no PI.

or

2) a blown call because the spot was wrong and it should have been spotted at the 9 yard line.

The contact at the 9 yard line is at least arguably significant. I can't find any way to call the contact in the end zone as significant, even with my Pats colored glasses on.

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Nice picture.

yeah, because there was never a little bit of mutual hand-fighting going on. Nothing too drastic on either party. Boyce was using his hand too. Does that not matter? How about calling offensive pass interference? That would make about as much sense...no sense at all. Talk about rules, but this could have gone against Boyce too, depending on the mood of the ref. You can rationalize it either way, but it would still be BS.

This is just a flag that should have never been thrown, especially in this situation. You let them play football. This is football.

Didn't read this whole thread...

I watched the replay on DVR multiple times. A camera on the end line center showed the DB making clear contact with Boyce's inside shoulder/upper arm where the flag was thrown right before the ball arrived.

PI? Feel free to debate. Intentional contact by the DB prior to the ball arriving? Indisputable.

Regards,
Chris


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50-yard-line said:

Regarding #2, it still would have been on the 1 because the interference (if the ball was in the air) is a spot foul at the point of the "catch," I believe.
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according to the rule book, it is spotted where the foul occurred, not where the catch would have occurred if it had happened

Uncle Meat said:

Nice picture.

yeah, because there was never a little bit of mutual hand-fighting going on. Boyce was using his hand too. Does that not matter?

This is just a flag that should have never been thrown, especially in this situation. ]

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I hate that I have to agree with Uncle Bleat, but I do. That was simply mutual jostling that WR's and CB's do routinely downfield on long pass plays.

chris_in_sunnyvale said:

the flag was thrown right before the ball arrived.
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look at the gif!

the ref doesn't even reach for his flag until even after they have both fallen down, long after the ball arrived

exchanging pushes with a receiver is often called incidental contact.


but pulling on a receiver is often judged more harshly. Even a gentle tug on the jersey is called 90% of the time.

That's why I claim the shoulder tug at the 9 yard line is at least conceivably a foul and if that was the call, a good ref would have:

1) thrown the flag immediately rather than wait to see if a catch was made
2) spotted the ball at the 9

thus reffing mistakes were clearly made

KontradictioN said:

I hate that I have to agree with Uncle Bleat, but I do. That was simply mutual jostling that WR's and CB's do routinely downfield on long pass plays.

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Receivers dont 'jostle' with corners as they are running past them with their back to the ball. Boyces arm went up in response to being grabbed.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

exchanging pushes with a receiver is often called incidental contact.


but pulling on a receiver is often judged more harshly. Even a gentle tug on the jersey is called 90% of the time.

That's why I claim the shoulder tug at the 9 yard line is at least conceivably a foul and if that was the call, a good ref would have:

1) thrown the flag immediately rather than wait to see if a catch was made
2) spotted the ball at the 9

thus reffing mistakes were clearly made

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Lets not assume that at full speed, while contact was going on for 12+ yards, and while the ref is also watching for the catch, that not pinpointing the spot of the PI is some proof of what he was calling.
Many PI penalties are marked at the wrong spot, especially on deep throws.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

exchanging pushes with a receiver is often called incidental contact.


but pulling on a receiver is often judged more harshly. Even a gentle tug on the jersey is called 90% of the time.

That's why I claim the shoulder tug at the 9 yard line is at least conceivably a foul and if that was the call, a good ref would have:

1) thrown the flag immediately rather than wait to see if a catch was made
2) spotted the ball at the 9

thus reffing mistakes were clearly made

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Then there is the fact that Boyce is looking for the ball while McFadden makes absolutely no attempt to play or even look for the ball.

This is what many of you are missing.

Was it just jostling, hand-checking, etc.? Yes.
Was there very limitd contact in the end zone? Yes.

But, the grab at the 5 of the shoulder pad impeded him. If he hadn't been impeded, he would have had a chance at the ball.

Do they not call that typically? Well, it's hard to say. Because, if the WR is grabbed, and if there is limited hand contact, and IF the ball still lands where the WR is but he drops it, then PI shouldn't be called.

But when you yank someone, slow them down, and the ball is out of his reach, that is as clear as PI as you can see.

Bottom line: if Boyce isn't yanked at the 5-8 yard line, he catches that ball. Perfectly thrown and timed.