Josh McDaniels

fumbrunner said:

So, you have seen enough of Steven Belichick to say he would be a better option than McDaniels, correct? Just want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting your views.

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No, I have seen enough of McDaniels to believe he isn't the best option and therefor I'm suggestion other options, are they better than Josh I don't know, like I said all I have concluded as an opinion is what isn't the best option and that Josh McDaniels.

Brady6 said:

No, I have seen enough of McDaniels to believe he isn't the best option and therefor I'm suggestion other options, are they better than Josh I don't know, like I said all I have concluded as an opinion is what isn't the best option and that Josh McDaniels.

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I bet jets fans thought the same thing about belichick when parcells left.

Brady6 said:

No, I have seen enough of McDaniels to believe he isn't the best option and therefor I'm suggestion other options, are they better than Josh I don't know, like I said all I have concluded as an opinion is what isn't the best option and that Josh McDaniels.

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It's a redundant point to argue that McDaniels isn't the right guy for the job whilst suggesting you don't know if the other options are more suited or better for the role of Head Coach.

I've said on multiple occasions that I'm not in the camp that would like to see McDaniels as the next Head Coach of the Patriots and from time to time I loathe his calling of plays but the guy is a damn fine Offensive Coordinator.

coolguy said:

I bet jets fans thought the same thing about belichick when parcells left.

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The Jets record actually improved the year after Parcells and Belichick left.

Also the Patriots were 6-10 with Parcells in 1995 when Belichick joined the staff in 1996 they went 11-5 and to the Super Bowl.

ausbacker said:

It's a redundant point to argue that McDaniels isn't the right guy for the job whilst suggesting you don't know if the other options are more suited or better for the role of Head Coach.

I've said on multiple occasions that I'm not in the camp that would like to see McDaniels as the next Head Coach of the Patriots and from time to time I loathe his calling of plays but the guy is a damn fine Offensive Coordinator.

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It is all I pointed out were options and there are many others beyond what I've said.

I think McDaniels is a decent offensive coordinator who when given the right pieces can be extremely impressive. I think he struggles with any adversity and is not great at assessing personnel.

I will ask you the same question that I asked DI but he didn't have an answer apparently maybe you will - can you point to anything that has improved since McDaniels rejoined this team, is there a position or aspect of the game that is better because of Josh McDaniels today than it was before he signed here in 2012?

Brady6 said:

It is all I pointed out were options and there are many others beyond what I've said.

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That's a given but surely you have to see the problem with your thinking when you categorically state that McDaniels isn't the right person for the job yet fail to state who the reasonable candidates (outside of the names you threw out) are and why you believe them to be more or better suited to succeed Belichick.

Brady6 said:

I think McDaniels is a decent offensive coordinator who when given the right pieces can be extremely impressive. I think he struggles with any adversity and is not great at assessing personnel.

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This reads like a Holy Grail item for most coordinators and coaches.

Brady6 said:

I will ask you the same question that I asked DI but he didn't have an answer apparently maybe you will - can you point to anything that has improved since McDaniels rejoined this team, is there a position or aspect of the game that is better because of Josh McDaniels today than it was before he signed here in 2012?

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The use of the run game appears to have significantly improved since McDaniels returned. You can argue scheme versus talent if you like.

Brady6 said:

No, I have seen enough of McDaniels to believe he isn't the best option and therefor I'm suggestion other options, are they better than Josh I don't know, like I said all I have concluded as an opinion is what isn't the best option and that Josh McDaniels.

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If he is so bad, then explain why BB likes him so much

Brady6 said:

OK I don’t think McDaniels should be the next head coach of the Patriots. Since you’re disagreeing that means you think he should be, correct?

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No. I'm not even pondering the question. Belichick's shown no inclination towards retirement and the future is far too uncertain.

Brady6 said:

I don’t really care about the Cutler or Marshall situation, whether it was his inability to work things out with them or his inability to recoup enough value for them or some other reason (aka excuse) he still failed he still went 12-20 and lost 20 of his last 26 in Denver.

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Of course you do, which is why you were harping on them as part of your case until that got blasted out of the water. You've been making one bad argument after the next. I don't know why you can't just admit that. It's not as if it's difficult to see.

Brady6 said:

Good coaches make things better in time not worse no matter how bad the situation is when they arrive the goal is to make things better, Josh made things worse or at least that’s what his record indicated. Fox took a similar roster and as the 2011 season progressed he made it better and the team improved.

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Belichick took over the Patriots after Carroll went 8-8 with them. He guided them to a 5-11 season and then got off to an 0-2 start. Things didn't turn around until the starting QB was injured and Brady took over.

As for McDaniels making things worse and Fox making them better, that's another example of you ignoring the whole because you want to look only at what helps your argument.

McDaniels began what was destined to be a painful rebuild, because Shanahan had neglected the defense for years and had been very hit or miss even with the offense. His first draft was a poor one, and his second year draft resulted in a lot of young OL and a WR who struggled dealing with a foot injury. Still, the year he was fired and Fox replaced him, the Broncos got off to a terrible start, at 1-4. It was a QB change, again, that started the switch, as Tebow became the starter and the Broncos went 7-4 the rest of the way.

Brady6 said:

Lets discuss this reasonably enough of the unnecessary comments lets have a real discussion and try and figure what is actually what, so this is my question for you - tell me something what has Josh done since coming back here to make things better than they were when he arrived? As of today what is better on this team because of Josh McDaniels returning? Bill O’Brien he took an offense going one direction and rebuilt it before he left, the offense was better in 2011 when he departed then it was in 2009 when he took over. So that’s what I am looking for something tangible that you can point to and say Josh McDaniels did that.

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It's a waste of time trying to discuss this reasonably with you, because you aren't reasonable. This part of your post is a perfect example. BOB left after 2011. The Patriots jumped from 513 points scored to 557 points scored in 2012, yet you're tossing out this paragraph, while ignoring things like the Brady injury and WR turnover for 2009 and all the obvious issues of 2013 (where the team still has a 9-3 record).

You've become a waste of electrons, and I'm done with you. Off to ignore.

ausbacker said:

The use of the run game appears to have significantly improved since McDaniels returned. You can argue scheme versus talent if you like.

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They ran the ball 454 times for 4.3 YPC in 2010 and 438 times for 4.0 YPC in 2011 they’re on pace to run it 466 times and averaging 4.2 YPC this season. As you’ve somewhat pointed out they have far more talent at the RB position this year than they did back then so I don’t see it.

Deus Irae said:

No. I'm not even pondering the question. Belichick's shown no inclination towards retirement and the future is far too uncertain.

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So basically you’re arguing that I am wrong but you lack the fortitude to even have an opinion one way or another, you just know that I am wrong but you don’t know what right is? That makes sense and doesn’t sound like you have another agenda….

It's a waste of time trying to discuss this reasonably with you, because you aren't reasonable. This part of your post is a perfect example. BOB left after 2011. The Patriots jumped from 513 points scored to 557 points scored in 2012, yet you're tossing out this paragraph, while ignoring things like the Brady injury and WR turnover for 2009.

You've become a waste of electrons, and I'm done with you. Off to ignore.

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I love when I ask you a legit question and you freak out and insult me because you don’t have an answer. I was not the least bit disrespectful to you, I was sincere with my question and you’re just mad because my question is not one you can answer in a manner that would support your argument so you react like a cornered animal.

Call me a waste of electrons but at least I don’t lash out when someone asks me a question and parade away like a 5 year old girl who didn’t get the Barbie she wanted at Walmart.

Honestly I am glad you’re ignoring me I am tired of trying to have legit adult discussion with you only to get some childish outburst when you don’t get your way, its so freaking petty and you do yourself such a disservice because your really are a great poster when you’re not trying to win a fight that you made up in your own mind. What you’re doing is like me driving down the highway thinking every person that goes by me is trying to race me and then using the breakdown lane doing 85 MPH to beat them, the entire time that person is like HUH? I am just driving to work, well I am just having a discussion I am not trying to fight you or challenge you so stop with that crap it is not how I am and if you bothered to take the time you’d know that.

Brady6 said:

They ran the ball 454 times for 4.3 YPC in 2010 and 438 times for 4.0 YPC in 2011 they’re on pace to run it 466 times and averaging 4.2 YPC this season. As you’ve somewhat pointed out they have far more talent at the RB position this year than they did back then so I don’t see it.

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To be honest, I'm not bothered by what you see Brady6 (given subjectivity) as I'm interested in how the Patriots have used the run game. You asked the question, were given the appropriate answer and are now choosing to gerrymander the topic. It's rather unbecoming.

I agree that the personnel is better but the Patriots have also suffered through injuries to key Offensive Linemen, Vereen and Fumbles has been putting the ball on the deck this season thus limiting play potential.

McDaniels has been doing a good job since he came back. Still, that's not good enough for me to see him succeed Belichick.

ausbacker said:

To be honest, I'm not bothered by what you see Brady6 (given subjectivity) as I'm interested in how the Patriots have used the run game. You asked the question, were given the appropriate answer and are now choosing to gerrymander the topic. It's rather unbecoming.

I agree that the personnel is better but the Patriots have also suffered through injuries to key Offensive Linemen, Vereen and Fumbles has been putting the ball on the deck this season thus limiting play potential.

McDaniels has been doing a good job since he came back. Still, that's not good enough for me to see him succeed Belichick.

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I have no real issue with McDaniels as an offensive coordinator and he does certain things very well an example would be his development of Edelman over the past 2 season. I like you don’t think he is a good fit for the head coaching job; the first reason is I honestly prefer head coaches with a defensive background, the second reason is I think McDaniels is too weak to be the top dog and when he went to Denver he tried to fake strength and it resulted in his team going rouge. Maybe he can become stronger in time but some people just don’t have what it takes to be king as they say in Hamlet.

Claremonster said:

If he is so bad, then explain why BB likes him so much

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There is a difference between being a good coach within a system and being the head coach, Bill values his relationship with McDaniels maybe he likes that he takes direction well, that is not a trait that will translate well to being a head coach.

I never said he was bad as a coordinator, but we’re talking about replace the GOAT with him. Denver gave McDaniels the keys to a Toyota he drove it into a brick wall at about 90 MPH, to give him the keys to a Bentley when Bill retires doesn’t seem like a wise choice in my opinion. You’re free to disagree but I see things as I have said.

I honestly think Pepper Johnson should be our next head coach. The guy has been here a long time and is loved by the players.

Brady6 said:

There is a difference between being a good coach within a system and being the head coach, Bill values his relationship with McDaniels maybe he likes that he takes direction well, that is not a trait that will translate well to being a head coach.

I never said he was bad as a coordinator, but we’re talking about replace the GOAT with him. Denver gave McDaniels the keys to a Toyota he drove it into a brick wall at about 90 MPH, to give him the keys to a Bentley when Bill retires doesn’t seem like a wise choice in my opinion. You’re free to disagree but I see things as I have said.

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The Browns gave Belichick the keys to a Toyota he drove it into a brick wall at about 90 MPH, to give him the keys to a promising team with Pete Carroll fired doesn’t seem like a wise choice in my opinion. You’re free to disagree but I see things as I have said.

Pepper Johnson has been a patriot coach since Belichick arrived. As far as I know, he has not been a OC or DC or an Assistant Coach.

I don't think that he is close to being qualified to be a head coach.

If you want someone that has been here a long time, the cholce is clearly Dante.

doesntmatter1 said:

I honestly think Pepper Johnson should be our next head coach. The guy has been here a long time and is loved by the players.

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My biggest issue with McDaniels is he's just so inconsistent. He's brilliant one week, and then just head-scratching the next. I'm a big supporter but I've even been left confused at times.

For me, it started during the playoffs last year. They finally started using Vereen as a receiver split out, and then vs the Ravens, not at all. That blew my mind, especially when Gronk went down again and they needed another pass-catching threat. I just didn't understand it. Especially when they could have used him to create additional mismatches.

This season it's been different, but I credit him for working to keep the young guys involved during the tough times, that's been huge and it kind of gets lost with everything else that's transpired. I just wish he'd be more consistent with the calls for sixty minutes and for sixteen games. He's a smart guy, I just think he really over thinks things but it's clear he and Brady are able to at least work together well enough to figure out when what they're doing isn't working and adjusting accordingly.

So I think from a standpoint of continuity, Reiss' theory makes sense. Bringing in someone from outside would be tough when you already have a proven formula for success in place. They're one winning season away from tying what I believe would be the second best streak of all time with 14 years, which is unheard of. So tough to argue that.

Given that fact, I'll remain optimistic. Hopefully like BB, McDaniels matures and will eventually be able to handle it as well. But I'd rather see some consistency with the offense first.

DocHoliday said:

The Browns gave Belichick the keys to a Toyota he drove it into a brick wall at about 90 MPH, to give him the keys to a promising team with Pete Carroll fired doesn’t seem like a wise choice in my opinion. You’re free to disagree but I see things as I have said.

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With the exception of 1995 the season in which Modell moved the franchise at the end of and created one of the most dramatic moments in sports history the Browns improved every single season, even with all the distractions Bills record in his final season was better than the teams record the year before he was hired and the year after he was let go.

Sciz said:

I hope goes somewhere and then trades for Mallett

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And hopefully gives us a 1st & 2nd round pick for him.

Brady6 said:

I never said he was bad as a coordinator, but we’re talking about replace the GOAT with him.

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By definition, any replacement is going to be a step backwards. Having someone who knows the organisation, the system and the players seems like a pretty good way to minimise that backward step.