Why is everyone bad mouthing Dont'a Hightower?

patsfanincleveland said:

So the third stooge surfaces.

Yeah...who cares if he makes stupid plays that cost plays. What matters is the clowncar at patsfans.com likes him.

Considering TB is 3-8 and they were blown out by Carolina it's really interesting where exactly the concepts come from.

That's why thinking helps.

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Shouldn't you still be arguing with the other Patsfanins and leaving the randoms alone?

The problem is ....many people think all first round picks can do everything. Like any other sport, specialization is important. Dont'a is stronger in certain situations. Our normal starting linebackers compliment each other. Since we have lost mayo, he was asked to cover.....which is not his strength. This is the reason he was not in there. We are fortunate to have that speed on our bench. Donta's time will come....all of you armchair managers!!!

Galeb said:

Shouldn't you still be arguing with the other Patsfanins and leaving the randoms alone?

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I guess this guy thinks an 8 game losing streak proves his point.

David should commit a few more bone head, game losing penalties.....these guys will have him in Canton.

Could you guys quit quoting pfip. I have him on ignore for a reason and I really don't feel like losing anymore brain cells from reading his brain dead posts. Thanks.

As for Hightower, he's being asked to do things that he isn't meant to do and isn't suited for in Mayo's absence. He's fine when he's in the correct role, though I would love to have Lavonte David. That play against the Jets was a horrible call.

KontradictioN said:

As for Hightower, he's being asked to do things that he isn't meant to do and isn't suited for in Mayo's absence.

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Between coordinating the defense after assuming the role from Mayo (not an easy task) and spending extended time in pass coverage, he has been asked to do a lot for a second year player. There were plenty of folks bashing Mayo and his performances yet he turned out fine, so it's probably a little early to flag him as playing below par or not doing what the Pats drafted him to do.

This is a decent summary of his strengths and limitations.

unoriginal said:

Mayo is at best, a poor SILB in our defense. He needs protection to run around and make tackles. (He is not a playmaker by any stretch of the imagination.)

Look at Mayo lined up beside Seau. Notice how much thicker Seau is through the truck, thighs, arms and calves. We need a young Ted Johnson or a young Seau type to man the SILB. Move Mayo to SILB and give him one season to actually make a play. If he can not do it, then draft Hightower in the 2011 class and send Mayo to ST or Detroit

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I wonder if this person has similar thoughts about Hightower right now.

SONS_OF_BELICHICK said:

The problem is ....many people think all first round picks can do everything. Like any other sport, specialization is important. Dont'a is stronger in certain situations. Our normal starting linebackers compliment each other. Since we have lost mayo, he was asked to cover.....which is not his strength. This is the reason he was not in there. We are fortunate to have that speed on our bench. Donta's time will come....all of you armchair managers!!!

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One of the biggest problems I see happen when people are discussing young players is that they treat them as if what they are at that moment is what they will always be, and what really matters, especially when you invest a high pick on them, is what they can become and the kind of person they are to become that. Very few if any draft picks are finished products and while some never get too far past what they are coming in others have a high football iQ and a work ethic and drive that propels them to get better each season and turn themselves into really good players. There are so many examples of this that it's not even necessary to name them and I think Jones is going to be another one of those players, which is why Belichick thought so much of him that he moved up in the first to go and get him. Right now Hightower is being asked to do some things he's not ready for, and i doubt his role going forward is going to expect him to be a great cover LB, but I still believe that he will work on both his strengths and weaknesses each offseason and become another really good LB for them.

I really like the intimidation that Spikes brings to the Patriots defense, but I really doubt he's back next season and right now i think we will be looking at Mayo and Collins outside and Hightower and Fletcher inside for them in 3-4 alignments, and I think both he and Fletcher will see time at MLB in 4-3 setys depending upon the situation.

KontradictioN said:

As for Hightower, he's being asked to do things that he isn't meant to do and isn't suited for in Mayo's absence. He's fine when he's in the correct role, though I would love to have Lavonte David. That play against the Jets was a horrible call.

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If the being asked to play like Mayo is the case we’re in HUGE trouble with Hightower:

Mayo
Games – 6
Combined Tackles – 55
Sacks – 1.5
Fumble Recoveries – 1
Pass Defends – 1
Stuffs – 1

Hightower
Games – 11
Combined Tackles – 58
Sacks – 1.0
Fumble Recoveries – 0
Pass Defends – 1
Stuffs – 2

Brady6 said:

If the being asked to play like Mayo is the case we’re in HUGE trouble with Hightower:

Mayo
Games – 6
Combined Tackles – 55
Sacks – 1.5
Fumble Recoveries – 1
Pass Defends – 1
Stuffs – 1

Hightower
Games – 11
Combined Tackles – 58
Sacks – 1.0
Fumble Recoveries – 0
Pass Defends – 1
Stuffs – 2

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Mayo was Mayo in the first 6 games, so Hightower didn't need to play Mayo then.

Hightower is a hybrid linebacker, not a pure MLB, so he wouldn't try to be Mayo.

The guy gives a nice explanation of what happened in Denver here. He is a second year player in a fairly unique role. I'm not going to dump on him.

MassPats38 said:

Mayo was Mayo in the first 6 games, so Hightower didn't need to play Mayo then.

Hightower is a hybrid linebacker, not a pure MLB, so he wouldn't try to be Mayo.

The guy gives a nice explanation of what happened in Denver here. He is a second year player in a fairly unique role. I'm not going to dump on him.

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I have no issue with Hightower I just think he is being misused, most see him as an interior linebacker I don't agree with that. I think Hightower offers a Justin Houston or Ahmad Brooks type skill set and would excel in that type of role.

Brady6 said:

I have no issue with Hightower I just think he is being misused, most see him as an interior linebacker I don't agree with that. I think Hightower offers a Justin Houston or Ahmad Brooks type skill set and would excel in that type of role.

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Unfortunately, the Chiefs and Niners don't run the same defense as the Pats. The Niners tend to run a 4-3 under front. The Chiefs run a 3-4. The roles aren't necessarily comparable, and it isn't clear the Pats have the personnel to try to mirror either defense (Pats have played a 4-2-5 sub defense 70% of the time). You have to look at the characteristics of all players on the defense, not just the individual, to see if he could be better utilized to the betterment of the entire defensive unit. I'm not convinced he could assume such a dedicated role with the gaps created by injury. His absence will create vulnerabilities elsewhere.

patsfanincleveland said:

So the third stooge surfaces.

Yeah...who cares if he makes stupid plays that cost plays. What matters is the clowncar at patsfans.com likes him.

Considering TB is 3-8 and they were blown out by Carolina it's really interesting where exactly the concepts come from.

That's why thinking helps.

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It's one play you ****** it wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Overall David is just better right now.

MassPats38 said:

Unfortunately, the Chiefs and Niners don't run the same defense as the Pats. The Niners tend to run a 4-3 under front. The Chiefs run a 3-4. The roles aren't necessarily comparable, and it isn't clear the Pats have the personnel to try to mirror either defense (Pats have played a 4-2-5 sub defense 70% of the time). You have to look at the characteristics of all players on the defense, not just the individual, to see if he could be better utilized to the betterment of the entire defensive unit. I'm not convinced he could assume such a dedicated role with the gaps created by injury. His absence will create vulnerabilities elsewhere.

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When we have a healthy front seven our primary front is the 4-3 over, we also use a 4-3 under and a 3-4 solid front. They will stand up Ninkovich and even Jones sometimes to give a look of a 3-4 under or over as well. In that front in my opinion the best utilization of Hightower is as the Sam linebacker, right now he is being forced to play the Will linebacker in Mayo’s absence and that is not a good fit for him, I also don’t think his playing the MIKE would be a good fit either should Spikes move on after this season.

In a 4-2-5 he is best suited to be the SLB however currently he is playing the MLB/WLB role, he would also be a good fit for the SOLB in a 2-4-5 front of 3-3-5 in my opinion. I think the strength of his game eventually will be his pass rushing ability, there aren’t a lot of players at 270 Lbs. with his speed or athletic ability.

I recognize what you’re saying is that Hightower is doing what the team needs him to do even if it is affecting his performance on the stat sheet and commend him for doing so.

Brady6 said:

I have no issue with Hightower I just think he is being misused, most see him as an interior linebacker I don't agree with that. I think Hightower offers a Justin Houston or Ahmad Brooks type skill set and would excel in that type of role.

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I just haven't seen enough pass rushing ability from Hightower either at Alabama or here to think that you can use him like that. I think he needs to be a tackling machine, atleast in the 4-3.

randomk1 said:

Overall David is just better right now.

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David is better at a position that doesn't exist in a Belichick defense. If you want to argue David > Hightower, then you also have to argue for a different defensive scheme. While I'm sure there's a valid argument to be made there, it's far beyond the scope of the David/Hightower comparisons.

I think that a lot of fans were expecting him to build on a solid first year and taking a big stem forward in year 2. That hasn't happened. Mayo's injury has probably had an impact on this.

Sciz said:

David is better at a position that doesn't exist in a Belichick defense. If you want to argue David > Hightower, then you also have to argue for a different defensive scheme. While I'm sure there's a valid argument to be made there, it's far beyond the scope of the David/Hightower comparisons.

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The position does theoretically exist but we've never actually seen it filled. It's the LB/S hybrid spot we sign old safeties for, i.e. John Lynch, Adrian Wilson.

Adrian Wilson is listed 6'3" 230 lbs., Lavonte David 6'1" 233 lbs.

Sciz said:

David is better at a position that doesn't exist in a Belichick defense. If you want to argue David > Hightower, then you also have to argue for a different defensive scheme. While I'm sure there's a valid argument to be made there, it's far beyond the scope of the David/Hightower comparisons.

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Please note the complete intelligence of this post.

Why is this so hard to grasp?`

Besides, Hightower is now in a position to perform absent Mayo, Vince, and Kelly.

If Lavonte David was the answer after watching Hightower vs Carolina.......why exactly did Tampa get blown out by Carolina?

unoriginal said:

The position does theoretically exist but we've never actually seen it filled. It's the LB/S hybrid spot we sign old safeties for, i.e. John Lynch, Adrian Wilson.

Adrian Wilson is listed 6'3" 230 lbs., Lavonte David 6'1" 233 lbs.

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Jamie Collins anyone?

Fletcher?

patsfanincleveland said:

Please note the complete intelligence of this post.

Why is this so hard to grasp?`

Besides, Hightower is now in a position to perform absent Mayo, Vince, and Kelly.

If Lavonte David was the answer after watching Hightower vs Carolina.......why exactly did Tampa get blown out by Carolina?

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If Barry Sanders is so good, why did his Lions always suck?