The non-call PI on Thompkins

stevedogc said:

When did the non call on Thompkins happen? I don't recall that play. Pacing, stress and beer are the main reasons! But want to check the tape.

And how about the PI call on Talib that took away the int late in the 4th. Going by what we were told after Carolina, how was that ball anything but uncatchable. There was not a Bronco player anywhere close to the ball. Uncatchable to everyone but Talib.

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They called holding on Talib, not pass interference.

Tasco said:

I think he pushed off quite a bit on his TD, with both arms if I remeber correctly. Watching the game I was already waiting for the flag to come in.
But I'll gladly take it as it was!

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I also did not see him extend his arms at all. I watched the game and the replay. He just ran and initiated body contact and then made a cut

Timbo717 said:

I don't think it was a terrible call, it could be argued either way. I thought at the time that the ball would've gone behind Thomas by a little bit anyway, but I'm not going to say it was uitterly and completely uncatchable because I don't know how the contact affected his route, especially with the call last week.

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It looked like Manning thought he was going to come back for the ball but he ran a go route

GaryfromTO said:

I'm beginning to think the only way an opposing player is going to get flagged for PI again the Patriots, is if he pulls out a knife and stabs the reciever.

That was another brutal (and flagrant) non-call.

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Nope, it'd be deemed "uncatchable" and opposing fans will tell us to stop crying.

GaryfromTO said:

I'm beginning to think the only way an opposing player is going to get flagged for PI again the Patriots, is if he pulls out a knife and stabs the reciever.

That was another brutal (and flagrant) non-call.

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For those of you that remember Johnny Most calling the Celtics games between cigarettes, he absolutely hated Laimbeer and Aguirre and that Detroit team, referring to them as McFilthy and McNasty. He was as much a homer as Tommy Heinson. There was a Boston comedian who used to do a Most impression (probably lots of them in the '80's) and he had a very memorable bit:

"DJ brings the ball up, passes to McHale, over to Bird, and - Oh My God, Laimbeer pulls out a knife and stabs Bird! He just stabbed Bird! He's bleeding all over the court. AND THE FOUL IS CALLED ON BIRD!! OH MY GOD, THE FOUL IS ON BIRD!!"

These games have been sort of like that. Only not quite as funny.

Talib on Thomas on the INT was definite hold. Had a big chunk of his shirt, easy call.

Thomas pushing off on the TD, they were both playing very physical, good non-call IMO.

Gronk supposed push off? Not even close. Laughable complaint.

Ninko PI. Easy call, middle of the field, grabbed him around the waist as he went by.

Decker offensive PI. Thank God they finally get called on one of these pick plays.

Thompkins. Ridiculously egregious. He's probably had a half dozen of these this season. He's a been a ref punching bag.

Bad Refereeing almost cost us the game

Thank god we won, but I thought the referees made two brutal calls that almost cost us the game.

1. Talib int was not holding on Thomas
2. The non pass intereference on KT. That was an easy call

I believe push offs are legal if you don't extend your arms.

Re: Bad Refereeing almost cost us the game

Chandler Jones should have had 4 or 5 sacks last night...but he was being held the whole friggin game! Hell, the whole dline was for that matter!

Re: Bad Refereeing almost cost us the game

The officials were allowing defenders on BOTH sides to get away with a LOT last night, the whole game.

Well, except for the Denver drive late in the 4th to tie it at 31, when the refs suddenly seemed to be doing their best to help Mr. Five-head by calling things they didn't call before.

Perfect officiating? no.
Awful? no.

I have no problem individually with the refs calling the light holding on Talib that had no impact on the play.

While I thought the pass interference on KT was pretty obvious, I likewise can accept a "let-them-play" approach from the refs. This was the case most of the game and I didn't have a problem with it.

Where the officiating becomes terrible is when both of these calls come on back-to-back drives, as they represent completely different officiating philosophies. Given the way the game was called to that point, IMO, there's no way they should have thrown that flag on Talib. It's especially poignant considering Collinsworth was getting on about how the refs don't want to interfere with the outcome of the game when explaining away the no call on KT, yet he has no problem with them potentially changing the outcome of the game on a borderline call. (I will admit to a personal bias here, I loathe Collinsworth as an announcer. Poor Al Michaels.)

Aside from Peyton's last drive where everything was a penalty, I liked the officiating APPROACH to the game. I'd rather let them play any day, our offense is getting good enough to where we shouldn't be relying on penalties. The KT no-call would have held more weight if it had been 3rd down. No excuse for not converting on 3rd and 4.

Re: Bad Refereeing almost cost us the game

1. The call on Talib was certainly holding. He was up there mugging (legally) Thomas all night. Best since Ty Law!

But he definitely grabbed him by the front of the jersey on that play.

2. KT gets no respect. None.

Jones gets held constantly every game.

Re: Bad Refereeing almost cost us the game

Dont worry,

I just got the monthly statement from the NFL's officiating department.

We have almost paid them back fully for the tuck call now.

Be glad when the NFL thinks we are finally even.

Re: Bad Refereeing almost cost us the game

It seems like holding calls are way down in the NFL this year in general -- I think it's basically allowed now unless it is (1) blatant and one of three following three additional conditions is met: (a) the held player is imminently in position to sack the quarterback, (b) the holding is directly at the point of attack of a runner with a ball on a player in position to tackle the runner, or (c) the offensive player brings the defender to the ground.

I don't know where such stats are to be found, but I would guess offensive line holding calls (as opposed to holding in special teams kicking, which seems to happen half the time) are half of what they were two years ago (unless you're Walt Coleman who calls anything a foul if he entertains even a thought that it might be a foul). So long as the players know the rule, and it's consistent, that's what matters.

50-yard-line said:

Third and seven on the Broncos tying drive PI on the Pats 10 looked a little cheap, given the enormity of the call - certainly less than what happened to KT.

Also, on the pick earlier, didn't see the Talib hold (I was at the game - they didn't replay that). Was it a good call?

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Talib clearly grabbed and held Thomas on that pick play, no question about it. However, Thomas was headed in a completely opposite direction from where Manning was throwing it, so I don't think it really had any bearing on the play.

Nonetheless, Talib didn't argue the call at all. He knew he held. I have no complaints about them throwing the flag there.

But the Thompkins play? My goodness….it was really a horrible non-call. Again.

There was definitely non-calls on both sides in the secondary. One thing I do notice is that I'm watching Brady/rest of the field when we are on offense and watching our D line when we are on defense.

I can't say how much holding we were getting away with, but I definitely saw calls that should have been made against our D line. I'm ok with calls away from the point of impact, but definitely saw a couple times where Peyton was out of the pocket and we had a guy in an attempted pursuit, but they couldn't because the Denver Olinemen had a choke hold/turning the body of the player. We're we getting away with blatant holds on offense?

Whether those are committed against our team or by our team, they need to be called (especially against non-mobile QBs because they can be caught from behind).

RelocatedPatFan said:

There was definitely non-calls on both sides in the secondary. One thing I do notice is that I'm watching Brady/rest of the field when we are on offense and watching our D line when we are on defense.

I can't say how much holding we were getting away with, but I definitely saw calls that should have been made against our D line. I'm ok with calls away from the point of impact, but definitely saw a couple times where Peyton was out of the pocket and we had a guy in an attempted pursuit, but they couldn't because the Denver Olinemen had a choke hold/turning the body of the player. We're we getting away with blatant holds on offense?

Whether those are committed against our team or by our team, they need to be called (especially against non-mobile QBs because they can be caught from behind).

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Last night was some of the most blatent holding I've seen in a game in some time against the Denver tackles. I'm surprised Chandler and Ninkovich didn't break their necks. There were times where both of them were being practically put in headlocks because they had beaten their man on the initial step.

KontradictioN said:

Last night was some of the most blatent holding I've seen in a game in some time against the Denver tackles. I'm surprised Chandler and Ninkovich didn't break their necks. There were times where both of them were being practically put in headlocks because they had beaten their man on the initial step.

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it was as bad as I've seen outside the SB. But, did we get away with any of it as well (on offense)? If not, wouldn't it make sense to try and "get away" with what the other team is doing or play to the officials level? then again, we're the Patriots and may not be afforded such fairness :bricks:.

RelocatedPatFan said:

it was as bad as I've seen outside the SB. But, did we get away with any of it as well (on offense)? If not, wouldn't it make sense to try and "get away" with what the other team is doing or play to the officials level? then again, we're the Patriots and may not be afforded such fairness :bricks:.

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There's always a relatively high amount of holding in pro football and most get away with it unless it's egregious. Last night, it was egregious on the part of the Denver OL. Those were choke holds.

KontradictioN said:

There's always a relatively high amount of holding in pro football and most get away with it unless it's egregious. Last night, it was egregious on the part of the Denver OL. Those were choke holds.

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in definite agreement, did you see our Offensive Line being as egregious/reciprocating in holding Denver's Defenders.

As i said, i typically don't see that in games as I'm watching...I didn't see our guys committing offenses, but was wondering if it was there.