Why does the league want to ruin the game: NFL may negate TD on taunting penalties

Deus Irae · Oct 30, 2013

WhoaDirty said:
They can celebrate once they get in the endzone.

Let them celebrate whenever the hell they want. If the celebration impacts the game, it'll be because they screwed up and cost their team on the field.

That will be penalty enough.

Tunescribe · Oct 30, 2013

Deus Irae said:
Whether I'm cool, or not cool, with Tate's version of taunting is irrelevant to my position. The taunting has no impact on the actual game itself, and it is not something that's potentially harmful in the manner of a late hit or a punch after the whistle. Like the celebration penalties, taunting penalties are stupid attempts to ride herd on players by punishing the teams for actions which are irrelevant to the actual game.

You consider taunting irrelevant, suggesting tacit approval (or at least tolerance). I think it's unacceptable behavior and cheapens the game. But perhaps taking points off the board for a blatant taunting infraction during a scoring play isn't the only way to stop it and does go too far. Heavy fine? Suspension? All I know is that crap like what Tate pulled and Logan Ryan's end zone-diving crotch grab, etc., etc. is disgustingly embarrassing.

Deus Irae said:
Will you be defending the league when it starts deducting points because some player had the wrong color shoes on, too?

You've got quite an imagination.

Onedaful · Oct 30, 2013

Deus Irae said:
Let them celebrate whenever the hell they want. If the celebration impacts the game, it'll be because they screwed up and cost their team on the field.

That will be penalty enough.

Couldn't have said it better. If Tate didn't get in the endzone on that play then he effed up and that's on him and how the coaches want to deal with it. They shouldn't deduct points because he held the ball in the air, that's lunacy.

Deus Irae · Oct 30, 2013

Tunescribe said:
You consider taunting irrelevant, suggesting tacit approval (or at least tolerance).

It suggests nothing of the kind.

Tunescribe said:
I think it's unacceptable behavior and cheapens the game. But perhaps taking points off the board for a blatant taunting infraction during a scoring play isn't the only way to stop it and does go too far. Heavy fine? Suspension? All I know is that crap like what Tate pulled and Logan Ryan's end zone-diving crotch grab, etc., etc. is disgustingly embarrassing.

What's disgustingly embarrassing is reading people losing their minds over this as if it's something meaningful. It's someone being a dumbass, nothing more. I happen to hate it, because I've seen it piss off opponents and lead to rallies that cost my team games (when I was playing), but that doesn't mean I want people shot and killed for it. That seems to be a potentially viable option to you, given your posts.

Tunescribe said:
You've got quite an imagination.

Not at all. It's a perfectly logical next step in your progression. After all, how is it "professional" to deliberately wear your uniform in a way that is proscribed?

Tunescribe · Oct 30, 2013

Deus Irae said:
It suggests nothing of the kind, as you well know.

To suggest that taunting has no potential impact on, as you say, "the game itself" is naive in the extreme. Taunting that goes unchecked begets retaliation. Which affects players, which affects play, which affects "the game itself."

Deus Irae said:
And now we're back to the whole "stupid" part again.

You have an opinion you feel strongly about, thus rendering the opinions of others as "stupid." That's the reasoning process of a 5-year-old. At least you're consistent.

Deus Irae · Oct 31, 2013

Tunescribe said:
To suggest that taunting has no potential impact on, as you say, "the game itself" is naive in the extreme. Taunting that goes unchecked begets retaliation. Which affects players, which affects play, which affects "the game itself."

Taunting has ZERO impact on the game itself. It has potential impact on players, viewers, etc..., which is not the same thing. Cheering, booing, high-fiving, trash talking, they all also have potential impact on players. Really, we need to ban humans from playing sports. It's the only way to keep actions from leading to possible reactions.

Tunescribe said:
You have an opinion you feel strongly about, thus rendering the opinions of others as "stupid." That's the reasoning process of a 5-year-old. At least you're consistent.

No, I had 2 windows open, mixed up my posts and clicked submit by mistake. I quickly edited it, but you'd already hit the quote button apparently.

However, I don't call the opinions of others stupid just because they disagree with mine. I call opinions stupid when they're stupid opinions. In this case, I didn't even call an opinion stupid. I called the idea of extremely harsh penalties (i.e. taking points off the board) for taunting stupid.

I stand by that.

Mountain_Commando · Oct 31, 2013

Let's call it what it really is.

It's just another tool in the NFL's box that allows them to "engineer" game outcomes, to make them closer (and therefore more controversial/exciting) than they truly are. It's the same thing they pull with all subjective (and non-challengable) calls like DPI, holding on a pivotal play etc.

It lets them prevent a game from being a forgone conclusion early on, to keep fans watching till the end. Instead of a blowout, have the refs take away a TD or a big gain, and now you have a flans glued to the game till the end.

It takes away the integrity of the game, and is completely unfair to the team that performed better. But if it keeps fans inside the stadium/in front of the tv watching ads longer, that's what the NFL really cares about.

Dufflebagz · Oct 31, 2013

I hate the taunting rule in first place and excessive celebration is no better. How can celebrating or taunting possibly cost you field position? Let them do what they want. I have no problem fining (not penalizing) celebrations that deserve them *cough* Logan Ryan *cough*, but as long as it's just fun and doesn't promote anything bad, what's the problem?

UK_Pat37 · Oct 31, 2013

The high school/NCAA already do this and it's generally not an issue because it's coached in to players. I prefer keeping it at that level personally as that helps them develop...by the time they get in to the NFL you would hope it has been drilled in to them as they've gone up through High School and college and they don't need to be treated like children.

However, saying that, I have no issue with it. The only time this rule will apply is if the taunting occurs whilst you're still on the field of play prior to entering the EZ.

My personal opinion is it's pretty pathetic to taunt an opponent at all, let alone taunt prior to even getting in the EZ. Therefore if you have it taken away, that's your problem.

This isn't ruining the game. It's telling adults to be...well..ADULTS.

I'm not surprised the NFL feels it needs to clamp down and build more character...maybe when players stop getting arrested every off season, the NFL might actually start to treat them like mature adults.

I don't like players pointing sarcastically with their hand/the ball at an opponent as they enter the EZ. I don't really like high stepping. It looks stupid. What Tate did was pathetic and I'd have laughed my ass off and thoroughly agreed if they'd taken the points away. Stupid individual.

Mountain_Commando · Oct 31, 2013

UK_Pat37 said:
The high school/NCAA already do this and it's generally not an issue because it's coached in to players. I prefer keeping it at that level personally as that helps them develop...by the time they get in to the NFL you would hope it has been drilled in to them as they've gone up through High School and college and they don't need to be treated like children.

However, saying that, I have no issue with it. The only time this rule will apply is if the taunting occurs whilst you're still on the field of play prior to entering the EZ.

My personal opinion is it's pretty pathetic to taunt an opponent at all, let alone taunt prior to even getting in the EZ. Therefore if you have it taken away, that's your problem.

This isn't ruining the game. It's telling adults to be...well..ADULTS.

I'm not surprised the NFL feels it needs to clamp down and build more character...maybe when players stop getting arrested every off season, the NFL might actually start to treat them like mature adults.

I don't like players pointing sarcastically with their hand/the ball at an opponent as they enter the EZ. I don't really like high stepping. It looks stupid. What Tate did was pathetic and I'd have laughed my ass off and thoroughly agreed if they'd taken the points away. Stupid individual.

As several posters have pointed out, there is no issue with enforcing anti-taunting (personally, I still think it's being oversensitive).

The issue is with penalizing the TEAM for the actions of one player. Awarding 15 yards of field position is bad enough, but negating a TD is absolutely absurd considering the infraction occurs AFTER the td is a forgone conclusion.

olschool · Oct 31, 2013

Rob0729 said:
I don't think this new proposed rule goes far enough. I think the player flagged with violation should be summarily executed by firing squad in the end zone.

And we have the squad suited up and ready to go.

UK_Pat37 · Oct 31, 2013

Mountain_Commando said:
As several posters have pointed out, there is no issue with enforcing anti-taunting (personally, I still think it's being oversensitive).

The issue is with penalizing the TEAM for the actions of one player. Awarding 15 yards of field position is bad enough, but negating a TD is absolutely absurd considering the infraction occurs AFTER the td is a forgone conclusion.

That's what happens in a team sport. Your actions ruin it for everyone else.

My own personal opinion is I don't want to see taunting full stop. It's petty and schoolboy stuff. If the punishment needs to intensify to deter people from doing it, then I'm all for it.

I coach over here in England and they already enforce it in our leagues. You don't really see it any more, bar the odd idiot with **** for brains! It works.

Tunescribe · Oct 31, 2013

Mountain_Commando said:
It takes away the integrity of the game, and is completely unfair to the team that performed better. But if it keeps fans inside the stadium/in front of the tv watching ads longer, that's what the NFL really cares about.

I believe the rule, if adopted, will be very narrowly aimed at overtly direct acts of taunting an opponent during a scoring play. (Keep in mind that taunting otherwise is a generally applied unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.)

We all can thank Seahawks dimwit Golden Tate for making this proposed rule adjustment topical, although the antics of players like our own Logan Ryan probably have contributed. I happen to believe taunting has no place in pro football and, if allowed to go unchecked, does more harm to "the integrity of the game" than this proposed rule.

That being said (and after sleeping on it) I agree with those who fear the rule might be too far open to officials' subjective interpretation with so much at stake on a scoring play. This leaves the question of whether some cases of taunting are "worse" than others, which the proposed rule implies. I don't know what the answer might be aside from leaving the taunting penalty as is and addressing the issue further by fining perpetrators and/or ejecting them from the game.

Ring 6 · Oct 31, 2013

mgcolby said:
Taunting just shows a lack of class and proves you are a loud mouth lowlife with low expectations for yourself. I can't stand it and watching it trickle down to my kids youth and middle school leagues is beyond disgusting to watch.

Act like you been there. Celebrate after you score all you want with your teammates etc.. Diving into the end zone grabbing your ****, waving by to an opponent at the 30 yard line only to have to shutup and run faster the last 5 yards because the defender caught you makes you look like an ass. How anyone thinks this is ok is beyond me. How about we appreciate sportsmanship and not lowlife antics displayed by people who have low self confidence, but compensate for it with a false bravado.

But lets be realistic. A large percentage of NFL players don't care what the average Joe's opinion of them is. And most of them are the guys scoring TDs. There is a huge difference in the attitude, culture, mindset and feelings toward conventional behavior between the players on the field and the fans in the stands. We are reminded of this every time there is a Hernandez incident, a Rolando McClain story, or many other insights into the personal lives of the 'icons' we see on the field.

VrabelJr · Oct 31, 2013

Rob0729 said:
I don't think this new proposed rule goes far enough. I think the player flagged with violation should be summarily executed by firing squad in the end zone.

Firing squad in the end zone? That's an end zone celebration I'm afraid. You're outta here!!!

Ivan · Oct 31, 2013

I actually like the idea of fines after the game has been played. if the NFL has so much time on their hands that they really want to review every player on every play to see if they did something to taunt another team or player and then fine them then OK, that's fine with me, go for it, but I don't want there to be any opportunity to give a team a loss be cause of a crappy call about a crappy foul.

PatsDeb · Oct 31, 2013

What a stupid idea. How can we start a "Goodell Must Go!" campaign?!

brdmaverick · Oct 31, 2013

Froob said:
Anyone remember Troy Brown getting that 1st down taken back for that taunting call(06 maybe?). Tagliabue where are you?

Yes, I do. You are right, 2006 vs the Colts. Troy innocently tried to flip the ball to the ref, but it touched a Colts player. Flag was thrown for unsportsmanlike conduct.

While we know it's innocent, we know the refs don't want to be in the business of judging intent.

brdmaverick · Oct 31, 2013

Sicilian said:
Seriously. People talk like a DB's preference is to get a 15 yarder, like it's nothing. 15 yards is HUGE in a drive. If a player is in position to tackle a guy before the ball arrives, chances are he's in decent enough position to try a legitimate defensive play.

Not if the player he is covering is Calvin Johnson.

brdmaverick · Oct 31, 2013

Along those lines I recall Brett Favre innocently tossing a ball at a ref, but it turns out the ref wasn't ready for the pass. He immediately threw a 15 yard flag but his fellow refs talked him into picking it up.

Why does the league want to ruin the game: NFL may negate TD on taunting penalties

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