Jared Allen wants out

We need something for this rushing D...31st in NFL..may be last after today. That my friends is why this team will go nowhere come playoffs

jsull87 said:

Also as a previous poster said if we give up a 3rd and a 6th and then he leaves to a monster contract in FA do we get a Comp 3rd back?

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The short answer is "no."

The long answer is that, IIRC, they would qualify for a comp pick, but because Allen is a 10-year veteran, the highest pick they could get back is not a third-rounder but a fifth-rounder.

Brady_to_Moss said:

We need something for this rushing D...31st in NFL..may be last after today. That my friends is why this team will go nowhere come playoffs

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Believe me...it's a major concern for me too. One line of thought was that they definitely changed their approach and scheme in the second half into a more aggressive style. I'm not sure of the specifics of what was changed, due to being so caught up in the moment and rarely watching the replays, but it certainly appeared that they almost went into a desperation style attempt at selling out in some areas.

IF we can get Kelly and/or Talib back, we may be able to continue a more aggressive approach which may help; along with potentially seeing an improvement in the offense too--which would definitely help in our defensive run game with keeping the opposition on their heels.

I just doubt that a move is made. I just have a feeling that it would have already happened. Just an opinion though, hope I am wrong because it would be very useful.

Brady_to_Moss said:

We need something for this rushing D...31st in NFL..may be last after today. That my friends is why this team will go nowhere come playoffs

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So the 2006 Colts that ranked last in rush defense didn't go anywhere in the playoffs either? They're pretty clearly the worst rushing defense statistically of the last 25 yards, and arguably the last 50.

(They won the Super Bowl.)


The rush defense isn't ideal right now, but let's hold off from ending their season because of it.

supafly said:

Believe me...it's a major concern for me too. One line of thought was that they definitely changed their approach and scheme in the second half into a more aggressive style. I'm not sure of the specifics of what was changed, due to being so caught up in the moment and rarely watching the replays, but it certainly appeared that they almost went into a desperation style attempt at selling out in some areas.

IF we can get Kelly and/or Talib back, we may be able to continue a more aggressive approach which may help; along with potentially seeing an improvement in the offense too--which would definitely help in our defensive run game with keeping the opposition on their heels.

I just doubt that a move is made. I just have a feeling that it would have already happened. Just an opinion though, hope I am wrong because it would be very useful.

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Getting Talib and Kelly back will be a couple of immense additions for the Patriots. Also, Armstead is a great unknown. He could be a welcome addition to the defensive line if he lives up to his projected capabilities.

Right now, the Pats "feel" like they are in a bit of a holding pattern and letting whatever eggs they've thrown against the wall slide on their own. As it stands, they're not getting it done in run D but they're still winning. Hopefully those returning players are the tonic the run D needs.

As someone else mentioned, the Pats need another DT. They need someone who can spell Chris Jones. I love the kid. He's been a great find and I think he's got the potential to be a very good, long term player in the 4-3 Under system the Pats have been running. Getting Kelly back would help a lot. Getting Armstead might help, but he's really an unknown in this defense and it's an unknown if he'll even be ready to come back.

Sciz said:

So the 2006 Colts that ranked last in rush defense didn't go anywhere in the playoffs either? They're pretty clearly the worst rushing defense statistically of the last 25 yards, and arguably the last 50.

(They won the Super Bowl.)


The rush defense isn't ideal right now, but let's hold off from ending their season because of it.

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I fully agree with you, Sciz. The optimistic way to look at it is that there are various options that can be explored to try to combat the problem. The pessimistic way to look at it would be that we just probably don't have the offensive capacity to do what the 2006 Colts did, even IF they grow on that side of the ball throughout the last 8+ games. That Colts team was able to buck the trend by hiding some weaknesses with a great offense. I'm not as certain that we will have that luxury, although anything is possible.

My opinion probably lies somewhere in the middle. I am certainly concerned about the DL/failure to stop the run, but I also think that we can make a deep playoff run should we finish 12-4 (or maybe better) and grab the #2 seed. One game at a time. We will have to see how Belichick handles the situation. I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt just by track record alone, especially if Kelly (or possibly even Armstead) can return and contribute.

His price tag in FA is going to be exceptionally high. If not, I would say...



...DO IT.

Sciz said:

So the 2006 Colts that ranked last in rush defense didn't go anywhere in the playoffs either? They're pretty clearly the worst rushing defense statistically of the last 25 yards, and arguably the last 50.

(They won the Super Bowl.)


The rush defense isn't ideal right now, but let's hold off from ending their season because of it.

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Right, they definitely have time to improve and have the played the last 2 1/2 game without their best run stopper in the middle and their best cb . I say lets take a wait a and see before declaring anything.

The 06 Colts stopped the run well enough once Bob Sanders came back from injury.

I think the bronco`s should trade for him. that denver defence is horrible.
they are also in urgent mode with peyton last few yrs .

satz

Would be a perfect fit, but at 5.9 in cap space, he's due $7.5 for the rest of the season. With Vollmer now out, we need a Tackle and DT or WR. I'm actually hoping that we can get colston from NO. He's only gonna cost us about 2.5 for the remainder of the season.

nantucketguy said:

Would be a perfect fit, but at 5.9 in cap space, he's due $7.5 for the rest of the season. With Vollmer now out, we need a Tackle and DT or WR. I'm actually hoping that we can get colston from NO. He's only gonna cost us about 2.5 for the remainder of the season.

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Tell me why we need a wr? We have Edelman, collie, amendola, Dobson, thompkins right now. Boyce has been inactive.

nantucketguy said:

Would be a perfect fit, but at 5.9 in cap space, he's due $7.5 for the rest of the season. With Vollmer now out, we need a Tackle and DT or WR. I'm actually hoping that we can get colston from NO. He's only gonna cost us about 2.5 plus the pick equivalent of an arm, a leg, and a second-born child for the remainder of the season.

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Fixed for accuracy. (Second-born b/c Sean Payton and BB are friends.)

Sciz said:

So the 2006 Colts that ranked last in rush defense didn't go anywhere in the playoffs either? They're pretty clearly the worst rushing defense statistically of the last 25 yards, and arguably the last 50.

(They won the Super Bowl.)


The rush defense isn't ideal right now, but let's hold off from ending their season because of it.

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Ok. You clearly know nothing about the 2006 Colts....

First, Don't try to point to the 06 Colts as an example of a bad rush-D still winning a SB. Nonsense. The 06 Colts were damn good against the run in the playoffs: They held KC's Larry Johnson (arguably the best rb of 2006) to just 44 yards on 17 carries for just 2.6 YPC! Baltimore got held to 83 yards on 20 carries. The Pats got held to 93 yards on 24 carries (3.9 ypc). Chi was the only team to do well with 111 yards on 19 carries. Still, it was a massive turnaround for Indy. They were damn good. Not even remotely close to being the worst rushing defense, like in the reg season, not at all....

Second, If anything the real aberration is the 2006 regular season Colts D. Why? Because they were awesome in 2005 and 2007. Why not 2006? Because they hit a rash of injuries and had to insert FAs and rookies into the starting lineup until the playoffs. First off, they didn't have BOB SANDERS all year, until the playoffs. What's worse was that they lost their other vet safety, Mike Doss, to injury too; they had two young starters: Antione Bethea (rook) and Marlin Jackson (2nd yr). What's worse? They had to make Dan Klecko their starting DT due to injury (he was awful). They flirted between Gilbert "The Grape" Gardener, Freddy Keihao, and Tyjuan Hagler at SAM, as well. Those are injuries at literally every level, and being forced to sub in rookies and guys who just weren't good enough....

But, by the time the playoffs came around? They traded for Booger McFarland to play DT (this was huge). Bob Sanders came back and and was awesome. And a couple of those rookies, particularly Bethea (a future pro bowler!), now with a reg season under his belt, looked much better in the post-season.

So, yeah. If anything, the 06 Colts are an example of why you should make that mid-season trade to really turn things around for a SuperBowl....

Shockt327 said:

Ok. You clearly know nothing about the 2006 Colts....

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Team missing players due to injury, has bad defense. Team regains players from injury, young players get experience, defense improves.

It's too bad the Pats don't have any defensive players recovering from injuries or young defenders who were thrust into starting roles.

Sciz said:

Team missing players due to injury, has bad defense. Team regains players from injury, young players get experience, defense improves.

It's too bad the Pats don't have any defensive players recovering from injuries or young defenders who were thrust into starting roles.

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Recovering from Injury? Oh, is Vince Wilfork on his way back? How about Mayo?

Not to mention, you are conveniently ignoring if/when the Pats will acquire their equivalent to Booger McFarland, a huge acquisition for Indy that year.

But hey! We got lots of young players!

dannydyn said:

Allen is a blue chip player. BB doesn't bring in blue chip players. BB likes to go dumpster diving for our roster.

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So many useless comments after yours, when you pretty much nailed it. Do people know BB and how he does things? *rolls eyes*

BB would have to have sudden onset of dementia for Allen to be traded for.

As I said in the trade thread, BB is not bringing in a receiver because every other team knows how bad he would want one and they would ask for more than he will give up. And I said, he might get a d-lineman but it will be one no one has heard of, it won't be a name guy. It will be an attempt to find the diamond in the rough kind of guy on the cheap. That is what he does.

So it is doubtful any move is made.

Kelly will be back Talib will be back.

And it looks denver is trying hard to get him

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 6m
Broncos not in on Vikings DE Jared Allen. Options diminishing.