Some perspective on Gronk being the "best player in practice"

goalkeepr · Oct 16, 2013

I apologize for yet another Gronk post, but I wanted to bring up this point...

According to the CBA, teams are allowed only one padded practice per week during the first eleven weeks, then only three more padded practices total in the final six weeks - that's only 14 padded practices all season.

We keep reading about how Gronk is the best player in practice, but if they're only in pads one day a week, I can see where there would be doubt as to how healed up he is.

It's not like he's getting banged on four days a week. It scares me to think about a linebacker hacking at his forearm trying to strip the ball.

If you're a nerd like me, Here's a link to the actual CBA. In-season practice rules are on page 143.

signbabybrady · Oct 17, 2013

I didnt want to create a new Gronk thread so I will just put this here:

I find these comments telling on who is making the decision right now. Sure I might be reading into to things to much but here are two quotes from Agent Rosenhaus:

"Up to this point, he hasn't been cleared to play in a game," Rosenhaus said Thursday. "He has not been cleared by Dr. Andrews, who is the supervising doctor."

"It shouldn't be a big surprise to people that the guy has a very cautious approach right now, because he had four operations on that forearm and he had a back operation."

Well which one is it? Is Gronk being very cautious or has Dr. Andrew's not cleared him? Gronk being cautious or reckless would be a complete mute point if the doctors aren't clearing him unless the doctors arent clearing him because Gronk is talking them into it.

Stop being a chicken and convince this Dr to clear you already.

yukon cornelius · Oct 17, 2013

i hadn't realized the Patriots had hired Dr. Andrews

Onedaful · Oct 17, 2013

yukon cornelius said:
i hadn't realized the Patriots had hired Dr. Andrews

“I don’t understand why this story has gotten so much traction. There are dozens of players around the NFL who aren’t playing because they are injured and coming back from surgery,” Rosenhaus said on WQAM-AM 560. “In Rob’s case, this is really straightforward. Up to this point he hasn’t been cleared to play in a game. He has not been cleared by Dr. [James] Andrews, who is the supervising doctor.”

Agent: No way to know when Rob Gronkowski returns - Sports - The Boston Globe

shmessy · Oct 17, 2013

yukon cornelius said:
i hadn't realized the Patriots had hired Dr. Andrews

They didn't, but it's been widely reported for the past week or so that the Patriots and Team Gronkowski have agreed to allow Dr.s Jupiter and Andrews make the final call on whether Gronk is cleared to play.

yukon cornelius · Oct 17, 2013

I knew Andrews was Rosenhaus's pet Dr. - I hadn't seen where the Patriots had agreed to "let him make the call".

Jupiter doesn't surprise me, he did the final procedure - allowing Andrews any say in the matter is just acquiescing to Rosenhaus, who is nothing short of a raging douche.

PATSNUTme · Oct 17, 2013

It was brought up in a flame thread on Gronk that there is a big difference between contributing in practice and playing in a game.

One brilliant poster even cited Mike Golic and Troy Brown as scoffing at the notion that contributing in practice would convert to game speed, hitting, and intensity,while the rest of the media was in hyperbole over Gronk playing the role of Jimmy Graham in practice. I forget who that poster was.

upstater1 · Oct 17, 2013

I'm just a fan and didn't sleep at one of those cutrate hotels last night, and I know this has been beat to death, but the defense of Gronkowski by the fans and media just doesn't convince me. I don't get this idea about how he should be concerned for his career at this point.

I mean, it's good that he's taking care of himself and has concerns about his career. But he doesn't live in a vacuum. His fellow teammates also have careers, and they too are worried about putting their bodies on the line. Wilfork, Mayo, done for the season. Armstead and Vereen on IR. Amendola and Connolly have concussions. Talib a hip problem, etc. I am sure that all these players are worried about their careers, future contracts, whether playing through pain may impact them negatively. But at the end of the day, some of them are laying it on the line. Gronkowski is smart to play it this way, but if a teammate accused him of being selfish, I wouldn't blame the teammate.

Mayo got hurt at the end of a game that the Patriots would have put away if they could move the ball in the second half. Mayo's career has been impacted.

Let's face it, Gronk's arm is not goong to improve. If he's not at 100%, he's not going to get to 100%. 3 surgeries on the arm sucks, but he's getting paid to play when relatively healthy.

Can anyone here tell me that Amendola isn't taking a bigger risk than Gronk when he steps on the field in 2 weeks? Talib--who is going into free agency?

AGAIN, all I'm saying is that the given reasons don't convince me. There may be other good reasons out there. I read last week an article saying that money DOES figure into this. I found that article much less than convincing. Money ALWAYS figures into these decisions. That's how the players are paid in the first place. If contracts were guaranteed, there'd be much less to discuss in that regard.

patfanken · Oct 17, 2013

PATSNUTme said:
It was brought up in a flame thread on Gronk that there is a big difference between contributing in practice and playing in a game.

One brilliant poster even cited Mike Golic and Troy Brown as scoffing at the notion that contributing in practice would convert to game speed, hitting, and intensity,while the rest of the media was in hyperbole over Gronk playing the role of Jimmy Graham in practice. I forget who that poster was.

I've said it before but it looks like its needed to be said again. Gronk has had ONLY 6 weeks to make up for 6 months of lost muscle mass. It was ludicrous from the beginning to think it would take any less time than it has for him to get ready.

Some in the local media set ridiculous expectations for his return and the fans and other members of the ignorant media just bought right in.

It should only take a modicum of common sense to understand why its taken this long. The myriad Gronk threads just show what a limited supply common sense really is around here

The original OP makes a great point. Gronk might have been back for 6 weeks but he's only had, at most, 6 padded practices so far this year, and you can bet that none of those 6 were close to full contact.

The mediots just ran with a made up story that had no semblance of reality and milked it to the max. Just SOP. If you don't have a real story to write, just make up some semi-plausible unsubstantiated speculation and sell it as the truth. If you want to blame the Pats for anything, just blame them from "ignoring the noise" and letting the media once again make fools of themselves

BTW- I agree that the Pats have been better off NOT putting him on the PUP. The fact that he has been taking part in practices all this team will mean he will be a few weeks ahead of the game when he IS ready to return.

JJDChE · Oct 17, 2013

He should play when he and his doctor feel 100% comfortable with him playing. He doesn't deserve to have armchair orthopedic surgeons questioning his health.

PatsFan2 · Oct 17, 2013

upstater1 said:
I'm just a fan and didn't sleep at one of those cutrate hotels last night, and I know this has been beat to death, but the defense of Gronkowski by the fans and media just doesn't convince me. I don't get this idea about how he should be concerned for his career at this point.

I mean, it's good that he's taking care of himself and has concerns about his career. But he doesn't live in a vacuum. His fellow teammates also have careers, and they too are worried about putting their bodies on the line. Wilfork, Mayo, done for the season. Armstead and Vereen on IR. Amendola and Connolly have concussions. Talib a hip problem, etc. I am sure that all these players are worried about their careers, future contracts, whether playing through pain may impact them negatively. But at the end of the day, some of them are laying it on the line. Gronkowski is smart to play it this way, but if a teammate accused him of being selfish, I wouldn't blame the teammate.

Mayo got hurt at the end of a game that the Patriots would have put away if they could move the ball in the second half. Mayo's career has been impacted.

Let's face it, Gronk's arm is not goong to improve. If he's not at 100%, he's not going to get to 100%. 3 surgeries on the arm sucks, but he's getting paid to play when relatively healthy.

Can anyone here tell me that Amendola isn't taking a bigger risk than Gronk when he steps on the field in 2 weeks? Talib--who is going into free agency?

AGAIN, all I'm saying is that the given reasons don't convince me. There may be other good reasons out there. I read last week an article saying that money DOES figure into this. I found that article much less than convincing. Money ALWAYS figures into these decisions. That's how the players are paid in the first place. If contracts were guaranteed, there'd be much less to discuss in that regard.

Very nice post it makes too much sense...I am so glad the Offense is moving on without him. Even Hoo-man is contributing I have so much issue with this and how Gronk gets a free pass, he is paid to play Professional football and yet the Team has to play on his terms. If it came to this woudn't BB have PUPed him? Football is a very Violent sport where any player can get hurt at any given time. I am very surprised by these delopments.

cmasspatsfan · Oct 17, 2013

signbabybrady said:
I didnt want to create a new Gronk thread so I will just put this here:

I find these comments telling on who is making the decision right now. Sure I might be reading into to things to much but here are two quotes from Agent Rosenhaus:

"Up to this point, he hasn't been cleared to play in a game," Rosenhaus said Thursday. "He has not been cleared by Dr. Andrews, who is the supervising doctor."

"It shouldn't be a big surprise to people that the guy has a very cautious approach right now, because he had four operations on that forearm and he had a back operation."

Well which one is it? Is Gronk being very cautious or has Dr. Andrew's not cleared him? Gronk being cautious or reckless would be a complete mute point if the doctors aren't clearing him unless the doctors arent clearing him because Gronk is talking them into it.

Stop being a chicken and convince this Dr to clear you already.

Why can't it be both, he hasn't yet been cleared and he's being cautious til its stronger.

Let's face it, Gronk's arm is not goong to improve. If he's not at 100%, he's not going to get to 100%. 3 surgeries on the arm sucks, but he's getting paid to play when relatively healthy.

Can anyone here tell me that Amendola isn't taking a bigger risk than Gronk when he steps on the field in 2 weeks? Talib--who is going into free agency?

But it will get stronger and his body will get stronger, it might not be 100% but if the doctor doesn't feel like its at the point where it can take full NFL contact he won't clear him.

CelticPatriot · Oct 17, 2013

I think BB just did it to mess with people.

patsfan-1982 · Oct 17, 2013

in todays NFL practice is a Glorified game of catch BOTTON LINE unless your going to be physical with Gronk and teams will be your not going to stop him from catching a perfect ball thrown by a unrushed Brady

signbabybrady · Oct 17, 2013

patfanken said:
I've said it before but it looks like its needed to be said again. Gronk has had ONLY 6 weeks to make up for 6 months of lost muscle mass. It was ludicrous from the beginning to think it would take any less time than it has for him to get ready.

Some in the local media set ridiculous expectations for his return and the fans and other members of the ignorant media just bought right in. It should only take a modicum of common sense to understand why its taken this long. The myriad Gronk threads just show what a limited supply common sense really is around here

The original OP makes a great point. Gronk might have been back for 6 weeks but he's only had, at most, 6 padded practices so far this year, and you can bet that none of those 6 were close to full contact.

The mediots just ran with a made up story that had no semblance of reality and milked it to the max. Just SOP. If you don't have a real story to write, just make up some semi-plausible unsubstantiated speculation and sell it as the truth. If you want to blame the Pats for anything, just blame them from "ignoring the noise" and letting the media once again make fools of themselves

BTW- I agree that the Pats have been better off NOT putting him on the PUP. The fact that he has been taking part in practices all this team will mean he will be a few weeks ahead of the game when he IS ready to return.

First off he has had way more than 6 weeks to get back in shape. While he was on the pup in TC he was out on the field working with the training staff very hard and I assume even harder in the bubble and weight room. At the very least he has been working out hard since the begining of Aug. about 3 months. Sure the first month was probably lighter than the next two as he was working back into shape.

Also I have a hard time believing he sat on the couch for 6 months. There are ways to workout around a cast on an arm. And he was working out again a few weeks after the back surgery.

The media obviously put an unrealistic time line out as we are 3-6 weeks past what the media reported in June and to be that far off is aweful. But I dont see another timeline out there for his return and that is the real frustrating part and without some realistic timeline it leaves me questioning where Gronks mind is at.

voluntarysaftey · Oct 17, 2013

Just a thought:

It seems like everyone is saying "He hasn't been cleared yet" as opposed to "He's not ready yet".

Even when the younger Kraft spoke a few weeks ago, he said players get back on the field when they're physically and mentally ready. I didn't see much discussion on that quote, but I did find it to be potentially telling that he also included mentally ready instead of just saying 'physically ready' cause players are assumed to always be 'mentally' ready

It's possible He hasn't been cleared yet because he doesn't want to be cleared. I doubt any doctor is going to clear a sports patient unless the sports patient okay's it -- ie an athlete could probably always complain that he's not 100% yet and the doctor isn't going to go against his wishes.

RI Patriots fan · Oct 17, 2013

How about this.....show me one other player in franchise history who has had at least 15 weeks of recovery time from their last operation after which they went on to practice (in a limited fashion) 6 consecutive weeks to then be named a "practice player of the week" and then not play a down in games during any of those weeks.

If you can do this, then I will say with certainty that this recovery isn't an aberration.

So search away....I've given you ever Patriot player for all time. I assume that if this recovery is reasonable that someone could find one player.

upstater1 · Oct 17, 2013

voluntarysaftey said:
Just a thought:

It seems like everyone is saying "He hasn't been cleared yet" as opposed to "He's not ready yet".

Even when the younger Kraft spoke a few weeks ago, he said players get back on the field when they're physically and mentally ready. I didn't see much discussion on that quote, but I did find it to be potentially telling that he also included mentally ready instead of just saying 'physically ready' cause players are assumed to always be 'mentally' ready

It's possible He hasn't been cleared yet because he doesn't want to be cleared. I doubt any doctor is going to clear a sports patient unless the sports patient okay's it -- ie an athlete could probably always complain that he's not 100% yet and the doctor isn't going to go against his wishes.

The right doctor hasn't cleared him. any doctor could clear him. And any doctor given the ultimate power to decide when/if a player plays would quickly lose clients. In other words, we know nada about what's going on.

I think Gronk's mother came closest to it. He has been put through the ringer with surgeries and is tired of it. But football is a contact sport. He can bust a leg and be in surgery on Tuesday.

ausbacker · Oct 17, 2013

Client or not, why is Rosenhaus even talking to the media about Gronkowski's injury status? The guy is an ambulance chaser of some notoriety.

supafly · Oct 17, 2013

PatsFan2 said:
If it came to this woudn't BB have PUPed him?

That means he probably would just have started practicing right now, and wouldn't have been in the shape that he's in, nor the habit of playing with pads and team practices.

I would think that PUP'ing him would only have made the process longer. There's also the factor that they just didn't really know when he'd be able to go, or how long it'd take to get cleared.

I think the right move was made, and judging by the success of the current record and early scheduling situation (BUF, NYJ, TAM), it only makes sense to wait as long as possible. A close eye is being kept on the bigger picture of the long term future here, likely from both parties.

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