Tavon Wilson

Deus Irae said:

While the board was more split than usual, there were plenty of posters who defended the pick, both at the time he was drafted and while he was sucking on the field last season.

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I liked the pick and was clear in a number of posts about the time it takes to develop into a good NFL safety. Wilson was a leader at Illinois, played both safety and CB in the Big Ten, and has the size and smarts to do the job. He is 1-1/4 years into his NFL career, so next year is when his value should begin to be realized.

I look at McCourty and see a guy who sees and reacts to the coverages and routes coming at him like a veteran safety, where he's much better than as a CB in being in the right place at the right time. He emerged at safety in his 3rd year and is a top 15 safety in his 4th.

Give Wilson the time he needs to come into his own.

This was a really, really terrible pick at the time... and it's looking like that's not going to change.

mgteich said:

Agreed, but that doesn't make Wilson a good pick.

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In what way did I say that?

The team needed safety help in 2012 and 2013. Sure, we'd all be happy if Wilson became starter material in 2014.

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The point here is that its 13 months into his career, and it is what it is, but many players have struggled for 13 months or longer, and turned into good players, so only time will tell whether he ultimately is one of the 50% that turn out good or the 50% that don't.

I also agree that 2nd rounders are a 50-50 proposition. Getting a top special teamer is not a win, but also not the worst. Many players simply don't ever contribute.

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I'd put career ster into the fail 50.

When a 2nd rounder isn't good enough to be the first off the bench in his second year, he must be able to be a top special teamer or play more than one position. Wilson certainly fits that bill. As a top special teamer, he will have at least through next pre-season to prove himself.

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Well if you haven't developed into a reliable player on offense or defense, you need to be good on special teams to keep your job and have your opportunity to improve.

Before free agency, a team could spend th time to develop players. It is harder now, especially with 4-year contracts. Using a 2nd rounder for 3rd year production is better than nothing, but not a success.

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Not sure I agree, because the cap highly encourages finding a way to use players in their rookie contracts. If you havent developed in 4 year, in any era, you probably are done.
The examples I cited above developed in their 3rd or 4th years and would have been very successful 2nd round picks.

Finally, I think that Wilson did contribute last year. He was very useful in the beginning of the season.

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There is no question he has the tools. We just have no way of knowing what he is lacking to get him on the field.
Anyone who has played football at a high level, especially defensively, and especially back 7, knows that there is an unquantifiable instinct that separates players. Those that have it can't really describe it, its just reacting to what you see and being now only right about it but quick about it. We have no way of knowing from here if its that, a poor work ethic, a lack of intelligence, commitment, desire, or a physical impediment that is holding him back.

goheels22002 said:

I liked the pick and was clear in a number of posts about the time it takes to develop into a good NFL safety. Wilson was a leader at Illinois, played both safety and CB in the Big Ten, and has the size and smarts to do the job. He is 1-1/4 years into his NFL career, so next year is when his value should begin to be realized.

I look at McCourty and see a guy who sees and reacts to the coverages and routes coming at him like a veteran safety, where he's much better than as a CB in being in the right place at the right time. He emerged at safety in his 3rd year and is a top 15 safety in his 4th.

Give Wilson the time he needs to come into his own.

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He sucks. He sucks enough that he's already been replaced by another (rookie) safety who's currently lousy himself. Is it possible that Wilson will figure it out and become a real player? Sure, it's possible. Is it likely? No.

Luxusdk said:

Brilliant pick... This was the pick there not only made BB move dmc to safety, but also traded for Talib :singing:

So ending up with a posible all-pro safety and corner is worth a second round pick

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Bravo! Way to put a positive spin on that one!

ALP said:

like all GM's in the past, present and future, BB has his busts

and BBs weakness is DB, and the 2nd round

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More like the 2nd round DB combo that is like his Kryptonite. Its like the drug addict who knows that it's bad for him but still can't keep himself from doing it. He needs an intervention.

Am I only the only one who thought he played the money position decently late in the season covering tight ends.

I think he got benched early in the season for not playing well at that position though. But he improved, right?

Deus Irae said:

He sucks. He sucks enough that he's already been replaced by another (rookie) safety who's currently lousy himself. Is it possible that Wilson will figure it out and become a real player? Sure, it's possible. Is it likely? No.

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Would you like to explain exactly how you conclude that Harmon sucks?

PATRlOT said:

BB looks like an idiot for this one.

Our next pick, Jake Bequette (3rd RD) , has shown even less than Wilson

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Bill is obviously an idiot. You should take over the team.

PATSYLICIOUS said:

Not gonna deny Wilson and Bequette look like terrible picks right now and likely will always be looked at that way. However, if Jones/Hightower/Dennard becomes staples as they are showing, it's still an A draft. You don't hit on every pick

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When the Draftniks with their very selcctive memories start criticizing BB drafting skills, they often chose someone of the other 31 teams, who made a better pick and say that is who they would have chosen instead. Balogna!

Its conventional wisdom now that BB can't select DBs. Yet McCourty is a near Probowl safety, and Dennard is solid. Arrington was found among the flotsam and jetsam of the UDFAs and awas invited to a Probowl. Darius Butler who was drafted by BB, was given up on too soon,due to injuries, and is emerging as a Probowl quality DB with the Colts.

Really Ras-I and Wheatley and perhaps Wilson are not measuring up, but two of them had their careers ruined with injuries, Career ending injuries can happen anytime and are not truly busts, IMO.

So in criticizing BB draft skills, sorry if I don't pay attention. The proof that BB does it better than others, is the unblemished streak of double digit wins through three generations of players, So Draftnik critics, for Patsy and my own relief... Please go away,! GO FAR FAR AWAY!!!

AzPatsFan said:

...The proof that BB does it better than others, is the unblemished streak of double digit wins through three generations of players...

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That's just not true. The Patriots get double digits in wins because they've got the G.O.A.T. under center, a great HC in BB, and they've been playing in a terrible division, not because of BB's general drafting. His drafting from 2006-2009 was terrible.

Deus Irae said:

That's just not true. The Patriots get double digits in wins because they've got the G.O.A.T. under center, a great HC in BB, and they've been playing in a terrible division, not because of BB's general drafting. His drafting from 2006-2009 was terrible.

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Replace Brady, BB and the division with average QB, coach, and division, and the Patriots are probably an average team. Agreed?

If so, then BB has been above average at talent acquisition, because the Patriots have earned a below-average set of draft picks.

Fencer said:

Replace Brady, BB and the division with average QB, coach, and division, and the Patriots are probably an average team. Agreed?

If so, then BB has been above average at talent acquisition, because the Patriots have earned a below-average set of draft picks.

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Its a silly argument. Its ridiculous to judge anything by a guess at what the team would be without a player. Its a conclusion based upon a guess that has no basis in fact.
See, I could do this. If it wasn't for Gronkowski being injured the Patriots would be defending back to back SB champs, so they have the greatest roster in many years in the league.

Fencer said:

Replace Brady, BB and the division with average QB, coach, and division, and the Patriots are probably an average team. Agreed?

If so, then BB has been above average at talent acquisition, because the Patriots have earned a below-average set of draft picks.

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I'm not bagging on BB here, but wnning 10+ games doesn't prove he drafts well, and claiming a theoretical average doesn't, either. BB has had some great drafts and he's had some awful drafts. We really can't 'prove' anything beyond that, because Brady and BB are so good, and the AFCE has been so bad, that they results are hopelessly skewed.

AzPatsFan said:

When the Draftniks with their very selcctive memories start criticizing BB drafting skills, they often chose someone of the other 31 teams, who made a better pick and say that is who they would have chosen instead. Balogna!

Its conventional wisdom now that BB can't select DBs. Yet McCourty is a near Probowl safety, and Dennard is solid. Arrington was found among the flotsam and jetsam of the UDFAs and awas invited to a Probowl. Darius Butler who was drafted by BB, was given up on too soon,due to injuries, and is emerging as a Probowl quality DB with the Colts.

Really Ras-I and Wheatley and perhaps Wilson are not measuring up, but two of them had their careers ruined with injuries, Career ending injuries can happen anytime and are not truly busts, IMO.

So in criticizing BB draft skills, sorry if I don't pay attention. The proof that BB does it better than others, is the unblemished streak of double digit wins through three generations of players, So Draftnik critics, for Patsy and my own relief... Please go away,! GO FAR FAR AWAY!!!

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McCourty was drafted as a CB not a safety. McCourty gave up more passing yards then any other CB in the HISTORY of the NFL! He had one good year and it was his rookie year.

Year 2 in BB system there is some sort of set back with these guys and I don't know why. Wilson played so so as a rookie to this year were he has zero stats. McCourty was great as a rookie only to go in the tank his 2nd year. Same with Butler he played so so just to fall off the face of the earth.

I am not complaining but I do think its kind of odd that the UDFA have a better shot at starting then the 2th and 3rd round picks have the last few years, I think C. RG and outside WR have been a hole on this team just as long as DB has not sure why they have not tried to Draft at dose positions higher in the Draft instead of reaching for some of the DB's that they have drafted in the 2th and 3rd round the last few years

Deus Irae said:

He sucks. He sucks enough that he's already been replaced by another (rookie) safety who's currently lousy himself. Is it possible that Wilson will figure it out and become a real player? Sure, it's possible. Is it likely? No.

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You may be correct, but in my estimation, the jury is still out.

For comparison sake, can you name one safety drafted in the second round (or later) who came into the NFL who was a good to excellent starter?

Safety is not like running back or defensive line where sheer physical talent can lead to elite production at the NFL level.

You are grasping at straws here with Wilson. He got replaced with a rookie, he should have made the second year jump. Also why would they sign A. Wilson if they thought T. Wilson was making strides?

My problem with this players is BB could have drafted him say 5th round on. Why waste a second round pick on him when you didn't need to? There were stud players drafted after Wilson that could have made a huge impact IE Ruben Randle or Reyes.

I agree with Deus, this is a good thread for the reach on need vs. BPA method.

Although we just drafted Hightower, Lavonte David was by far the best player on the board at pick 48. I, and others in the draft thread, were screaming for the Pats to pick him. He only fell due to being undersized. We could've found a place for such a talented player on the field here.

LB wasn't that much of a need and we spent a 1st on it already, while safety was our #1 need. Result? Reach on a bad safety prospect, skip on great LB prospect.

PATS68 said:

You are grasping at straws here with Wilson. He got replaced with a rookie, he should have made the second year jump. Also why would the sign A. Wilson if they thought T. Wilson was making strides?

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Why would they cut Adrian Wilson and keep Tavon Wilson if he wasn't progressing somewhere on the anticipated path?