Dez Bryant vs Devin McCourty

Canuck said:

Dez is the current version of Chad Johnson (Ochocinco). Chad was a talented receiver who ran wrong or poor routes and had trouble grasping the playbook.
He had multiple years of 1K yards receiving and Pro Bowls but was a bust in New England with Tom Brady at QB.

I truly believe Dez would not be the star here in New England that he is in Dallas. There were enough warning signs that BB stayed clear of him and targeted DMc instead.

DMc value on the defensive side to New England is as valuable as Dez is to Dallas on the offensive side.

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Chad Ochocinco was a bust in New England, but he physically couldn't play anymore by then. Let's not pretend that a prime 85 would've faltered here in a similar manner. That's like judging Randy Moss by his 2010 performance.

Dez Bryant is an absolute stud of a wide receiver, regardless of his off the filed problems. He's far more talented as a wideout than McCourty is as a safety, though one could easily argue Devin is the more dependable player. I don't think this debate is anywhere near as cut and dry as you make it to be. In my opinion it's a matter of consistency vs. potential.

Spiral said:

No--you should be looking at Taylor Price, picked at #90.

#91 Navorro Bowman
#93 Tony Moeaki
#95 Jimmy Graham

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Doesn't Moeaki kinda suck?? It should be noted how stupid the Chiefs were for taking him ahead of Graham.

RodThePat said:

Chad Ochocinco was a bust in New England, but he physically couldn't play anymore by then. Let's not pretend that a prime 85 would've faltered here in a similar manner. That's like judging Randy Moss by his 2010 performance.

Dez Bryant is an absolute stud of a wide receiver, regardless of his off the filed problems. He's far more talented as a wideout than McCourty is as a safety, though one could easily argue Devin is the more dependable player. I don't think this debate is anywhere near as cut and dry as you make it to be. In my opinion it's a matter of consistency vs. potential.

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Ocho still had decent physical skills when he arrived here, certainly enough to produce had he known what he was doing. It is more likely he would have failed in NE regardless when he came, or at least was a moderately productive disappointment.

Joey007 said:

Doesn't Moeaki kinda suck?? It should be noted how stupid the Chiefs were for taking him ahead of Graham.

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No, Moeaki is a very good Tight End. His problem has been health.

ausbacker said:

No, Moeaki is a very good Tight End. His problem has been health.

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Which almost draws more ire on this site than someone who just downright sucks.

ausbacker said:

No, Moeaki is a very good Tight End. His problem has been health.

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Well before he got hurt maybe I suppose. After his injuries though he hasn't been able to do much at all.

Spiral said:

Yes--precisely. At that point in the game, his only job is to prevent that kind of pass from being completed. That's what playmakers do.

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NG Pats Fan said:

3 years later...who would you rather have on our team? I remember screaming at the TV when we passed up on Dez in the 2010 NFL draft. I knew he would be a star.

Can you imagine if we had drafted Dez along with Gronk and Hernandez That would be one of the greatest offensive drafts of all time

As valuable as McCourty is to the Patriots, Dez is a rare breed in the NFL. He is a star, and would instantly make the patriots a much better team.

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And then who would play starting FS for us? The Patriots boast probably the most improved secondary in the NFL this year, and yes a lot of that has to do with Talib, but also we wouldn't be there without McCourty.

On the other hand Kenbrell Thomkins looks like a star and we got him without spending a single draft pick.

It's easy to want, but there are always tradeoffs. For example in the JJ Watt draft, we could have leapfrogged the Texans to get him by moving up to 10, but then we wouldn't have our LT of the future/now present in Solder plus we would have had to give up extra picks.

Spiral said:

No--you should be looking at Taylor Price, picked at #90.

#91 Navorro Bowman
#93 Tony Moeaki
#95 Jimmy Graham

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Deus Irae said:

Given how the draft works, why should I be looking at the 3rd round miss rather than the 2nd round miss? Seriously, have you been drinking?

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When I look at the draft in hindsight, I look at the players taken immediately after the guy the Patriots' took at that spot. In the second round, the Patriots missed on Carlos Dunlap and Sean Lee, who were taken right after, but there were a bunch of other players taken later on in the 2nd that haven't panned out. See for yourself:

2010 NFL Draft Listing - Pro-Football-Reference.com

But in the third round, there were two pro bowl-caliber players taken within five picks after Taylor Price. At that point, to be that far off on your evaluations of those three players is something to gripe about, IMO. To be fair, they got Gronk at 42, Spikes at 62 and Hernandez at 113, and those were great, good and very good picks. But as a Pats fan, I reserve the right to gripe about anything, even the 2010 draft.

Spiral said:

...But in the third round, there were two pro bowl-caliber players taken within five picks after Taylor Price. At that point, to be that far off on your evaluations of those three players is something to gripe about, IMO. To be fair, they got Gronk at 42, Spikes at 62 and Hernandez at 113, and those were great, good and very good picks. But as a Pats fan, I reserve the right to gripe about anything, even the 2010 draft.

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Success percentage drops with every round. Your arguments on this topic have been extremely weak sauce.

Joey007 said:

Well before he got hurt maybe I suppose. After his injuries though he hasn't been able to do much at all.

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If he regains his health at any stage in 2013, he's a huge upgrade on Hoomanawanui and Sudfeld. Moeaki and Gronkowski would be an enviable two Tight End set. That said, I don't have any high hope for Moeaki regaining health.

lol @ the haters in this thread

Dez may have had issues, but he's one of the best WR's in the NFL. Dmac is a serviceable starter, but he's not on anybody's top 10 list for NFL safeties.

Jangles said:

lol @ the haters in this thread

Dez may have had issues, but he's one of the best WR's in the NFL. Dmac is a serviceable starter, but he's not on anybody's top 10 list for NFL safeties.

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Not counting Welker in order to avoid the "slot receiver" argument, I can still easily come up with 10 WRs who could, at least arguably, knock Bryant out of the top 10:

C. Johnson
L. Fitzgerald
J. Jones
A.J. Green
A. Johnson
D. Thomas
D. Jackson
B. Marshall
R. White
R. Wayne

I don't disagree that Bryant's the better player right now, but he's not a "no-question about it" elite guy.

Jangles said:

lol @ the haters in this thread

Dez may have had issues, but he's one of the best WR's in the NFL. Dmac is a serviceable starter, but he's not on anybody's top 10 list for NFL safeties.

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Name 10 better safeties than Dmac.

Now please name me 5 Free Safeties that are better than McCourty. I'll start:

Earl Thomas
Dashon Goldson

That's it.

A couple fringe guys that may or may not be better:

- Ed Reed at this point in his career
- Jairus Byrd
- Eric Weddle (doubtful)
- Harrison Smith (young up and comer)
- Eric Reid (in his rookie year, we'll have to wait and see)

Deus Irae said:

Not counting Welker in order to avoid the "slot receiver" argument, I can still easily come up with 10 WRs who could, at least arguably, knock Bryant out of the top 10:

C. Johnson
L. Fitzgerald
J. Jones
A.J. Green
A. Johnson
D. Thomas
D. Jackson
B. Marshall
R. White
R. Wayne

I don't disagree that Bryant's the better player right now, but he's not a "no-question about it" elite guy.

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I'd take Desean Jackson, Roddy White and Reggie Wayne off that list. Dez is better than DeSean, and Roddy and Reggie are old and/or hobbled. Either way, he's an elite WR talent, and I find it hard to believe that there is no way the Patriots could have found a way to utilize his talent, particularly his ability to beat man coverage, effectively.

Some seem to take it as a point of pride that elite, successful wide receivers would be total bums in New England because of the offense's complexity, while at the same time we struggle to find anyone who can play outside the hashmarks and give Brady a single guy who can threaten a safety. Someone upthread argued a prime Ocho would have sucked here as well.

If 2006 Moss was available today, most of this board would have rejected him, claiming he is "too much of a head case, is a one-trick pony, and could never pick up this complex offense."

P.S. Brandon Marshall is a medically diagnosed head-case. I guess that rules him out as a successful Patriot as well.


This has less to do with Dez vs. McCourty than the "I wouldn't ever want Dez et al. on the Pats, he'd be useless" crowd.

What a player brings to the team when the game clock isn't running also counts toward qualification as 'elite' or 'best' (IMHO). Production, consistency (which includes durability) AND off field/lockerroom/team value (call it what you will) all matter. So when I hear that Dallas has to have people checking on DB to make sure he is in his hotel room (at least that is what I heard), that's part of calculating a player's value, calculating his 'elite/best' qualification. So then taking a look at DB's raw stats, he had the kind of stats in 2012 and so far in 2013 that gets 'elite/best' consideration. But is 20 games enough to get 'elite/best' label? Maybe....

I don't think McCourty's value is as significant as DB's with all categories considered (as difficult it is to compare a S value to a WR value). But I still would not want DB, as he has been with Dallas, on the Patriots unless it came with a change in the way he approaches his craft.

Jangles said:

lol @ the haters in this thread

Dez may have had issues, but he's one of the best WR's in the NFL. Dmac is a serviceable starter, but he's not on anybody's top 10 list for NFL safeties.

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McCourty was the much safer pick, especially considering the fact that Belichick doesn't use 1st round picks at the position of WR. It's too much of a gamble to try and guess as to how much they'll be able to come in and pick up the system and all of its nuances.

Also, keep in mind that Oklahoma State often was rumored to have dumbed down their calls to try and get Bryant to even understand what was going on, and that isn't even bringing into account some of his off the field attitude and character concerns. Just because a player is succeeding in another system doesn't mean that he'd be doing well here.

In hindsight, it's always great to see a stud WR tearing it up, and I think that Belichick may have been interested in taking a gamble in round 2/definitely round 3, but for a first round choice--passing on Bryant was the right way to go. If that is "hating" on Bryant, then so be it, but that is not my personal intention.

As far as DMcC not being a top 10 safety, I disagree. He will be worth a nice pact and can play both safety and CB, which gives lots of versatility and flexibility should injuries occur. Check out the latest SB loss vs the NYG for examples as to him playing both positions in the same game depending on the package and personnel, and he did a very nice job at it to boot.

Can someone make a list of WRs in the league who would "get it" in the Pats system and who wouldn't?

Spiral said:

Yes--precisely. At that point in the game, his only job is to prevent that kind of pass from being completed. That's what playmakers do.

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I think statements like this are pretty naive. Don't forget that both Falcons safeties were Pro Bowlers last season, yet they gave up several deep throws to an undrafted free agent. There's no shame in Julio Jones making an absolutely brilliant catch on a perfect pass. The rules favour the offense in so many ways.

And I wonder if you've actually watched a lot of Dallas games all the way through, or just catch the highlights. Are you the Fantasy Footballer who watches the box scores and ESPN to see Dez Bryant having a huge statistical game against Kansas City with a few circus catches? Or did you watch the entire game and see him drop an absolutely perfect deep ball that would have gone for a score in a game the Cowboys lost by a point?

If people watch Bryant play a lot and still prefer him to McCourty, then fine. But if it's based just on "playmaking" on ESPN, almost every starting WR in the league is going to make more highlight plays than even Pro Bowl defensive backs.

You can go back to your Fantasy Football league now.