The Official Patriots vs Jets POST Game Thread

Wrath Mania said:

Did you even watch? He wasn't even that critical. Called Brady a great leader, just said it sends a bad message. Given how trashy NFLN usually is, I had no problem with it.

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I have to disagree here.

First, they were showing Brady lose it on the throw into the dirt in the end zone. He was yelling at Edelman, not Dobson.

The Total Access people got this right, Irvin got it wrong. When the rookies were screwing up, Brady was guiding them. And Irvin repeated that Brady never got angry at himself for the long throw to Edelman multiple times. The fact is, Brady did get mad at himself. He was furious with himself.

And lastly he blamed Brady for a bad throw to Dobson (the one Dobson didn't see on the sideline over his back shoulder until it was too late). That was a perfect throw by Brady.

I thought it was a very bad job by Irvin.

Brady could also tone it down when it comes to Edelman as well. Edelman was his safety valve and Edelman is just coming into his own.

Also, these former receivers do not have a good understanding of the Patriots offense, and they say a lot of contradictory things.

For instance, they said that the Patriots miss Welker a lot. Then they said that Amendola being hurt also damages the offense, but that Edelman filled in nicely for Amendola, and that when amendola returns, they are going to have the same problem since Edelman will sit, and that problem is, no outside threats, only one slot guy.

So, given that analysis, how would keeping Welker have helped the team?

They make no sense. I get dizzy listening to those clods.

ivanvamp said:

I said earlier that I am happy that the defense won a game for the Patriots. Want to know the last time the Patriots won a game scoring fewer than 20 points? December 20, 2009, when they beat the Bills 17-10. They were 0-7 in their last seven games scoring fewer than 20 points.

I very much want this team to develop a shut-down defense. The first two games they've held their opponents to 24 points (7 of the Bills' points came on a fumble return for a TD), 604 yds (302 avg), 30 first downs, and they've forced six turnovers.

That's pretty sweet. However, they've played two bad offensive teams with rookie quarterbacks. So let's see if they can put up a good defensive performance against someone like Atlanta before we get too excited.

Still, overall, I'm happy with how the defense has played.

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I agree that better teams are coming. But, I think the Bills have a lot of weapons that they kept in check.

The Jets are cheapshot sore LOSERS.

Rex looked like he wanted to cry walking off the field at the end.

For those saying that they liked Brady getting all demonstrative after what seemed like mistakes from his receivers, Brady did just admit that he showed bad body language last night.

Brady is a perfectionist. And I have no doubt that he's a great leader. But last night was not a great night showcasing his leadership qualities. I agree with Michael Irvin on this. He said the first few times the receiver made mistakes, he understood why Brady was demonstrative. But because Brady did it the entire game, when his young receivers were probably already demoralized, it didn't help them any. A little bit of encouragement to boost their confidence would have helped.

I'm sure Brady realized this and that's why he addressed it in his presser.

@Dr. Pain, to me, him admitting his mistake shows that he is a great leader.

IcyPatriot said:

It was a late hit but I do not believe Mangold's original intent was to go after Talib's knees or ankles. His original trajectory appears to show him aiming for the waist or even the chest area if Talib had kept running and Talib made a nice spin move to avoid the hit.

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That's the problem... It's Mangold's responsibility to make sure his hit is clean. It's hard to argue that a player's intent is anything but bad when they launch themselves at a player in a decided game.

...it might be homer-ism, but, i really believe if they slow the f$kc down, and let these kids figure out which way is left which way is right before snapping the damn ball they'll have more a lot more success.

PatsFaninAZ said:

Consider the punting unit too, which I would argue was virtually as important as the defense. Despite the fact that the Patriots could not move the ball, the Jets started 14 of their 15 drives inside their own 34, and 12 drives inside their own 22 yard line. The Patriots punted 11 times. The Jets had SEVEN return yards. Total. On 11 punts. That is amazing. The Patriots had 514 yards of punts tonight, with a net of 507 yards. I would guess that is a record. And I wouldn't think it's very close. I don't know if they keep that sort of stat, but it's a shocker.

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Considering the Jets kept fielding their punt team with NO return man, those numbers are not that shocking to me.

As to why they kept doing that, a quick google revealed "With the Leonhard injury the Jets will need to find a punt return man." I'm not sure if that was the real reason or not, but it seems bizarre to not put someone out there unless they saw something on film that made them believe they could block our punts.

Dr Pain said:

Loved the defense’s attitude. Can’t stand Brady right now. Prima donna to the max. I would have loved if someone asked him what his role and responsibility is for brining alone the kids.

Tom Brady please grow up and act like a man. This is embarrassing. Oh and by the way your team just beat the JETS.

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For people who have no idea what's going on in the locker room, we shouldn't make statements like this. You don't know what's going on. Dobson might be a major league flake who doesn't care. It's not Brady's job to bring him along. It's Brady's job to stick a foot up his butt (apologies to Rex Ryan). We don't know.

Kid did not seem all that broken up after dropping that bomb. he was smiling. I can't interpret that at all. I'm not going to draw conclusions because I don't know what was being said. But it may just be that Brady has a sense of the seriousness of these players. Some may be flaky.

Thompkins always seems like he means business. I have more confidence than him.

The truth is that Dobson's performance scares the crap out of me. He seems to have very little hand coordination when a ball is thrown at speed. Also, he slowed up on that bomb that he dropped, and having to speed up contributed to the drop. I really really wonder about him. I'm not sure he's going to come around.

So if we are having a hard time developing receivers to learn this offense, maybe we should change the offense. Simplify it for the outside guys.

Also, why is Boyce only getting two snaps? If Dobson and Thompkins are having such bad games, why not give him a shot? What's the worst he can do?

Dr Pain said:

I couldn’t disagree more. He is a papered diva. Can you imagine working with someone like him on a team? The only person sitting with him was Josh. He needs to shut the hell up with his little drama queen act and try and lead. Destroying these kids is a great way to make sure they never amount to anything. I saw the Jets offense huddled around talking about what they were going to do and Geno showing more leadership. Brady is very talented but he shows no leadership skills at all.

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Prima Donna? Diva?
Are you joking?

BadMoFo said:

His body language and attitude is also effecting the way he plays. He missed on a few of those passes, including two sure touchdowns. So it's not just about disciplining the rookies.

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How would anyone know this?

How would anyone know he'd play better if he was calmer?

To quote BB: it is what it is.

Demosthenes said:

In short, it looks to me like Mangold launched himself at Talib's thighs. Talib moved away from Mangold (and also turned his body away as well). The result of this is that Mangold ended up coming down on the back of Talib's legs at the knee, instead of hitting him in the thighs.

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If Mangold wanted to push him out of bounds he would have stayed straight up and pushed him out. Instead he dove at his legs and went after his knees.

Dirty play for no real reason except to cause injury. I'm sure he was frustrated at that point and didnt like Talib running around (which I wasn't thrilled about either), but arguing that he went after his thighs......... c'mon now.

makoute said:

Why is Ghotkowski getting a pass?

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Because he won thegame last week and because the best kickers are 80% successful. The BEST kickers.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

That's the problem... It's Mangold's responsibility to make sure his hit is clean. It's hard to argue that a player's intent is anything but bad when they launch themselves at a player in a decided game.

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it is hard to argue intent here and that is what we are doing. Mangold was penalized and I bet he will be fined. I am ok with all of that.

None of us will have the correct answer because we cant read his mind. But watching the play I do not see the intent. Last year Wilfork was fined for hits. I do not think those hits we dirty either.

I am not a fan of Mangold/Jets to keep defending them. But, my thought on this is that if the ball carrier is dancing and running some one has to hit him. I think this is starting to happen more and more also. QBs waiting before they take a knee and players fighting along the side lines and then jumping out at the last moment. These situations could get ugly even if the intent is not bad.

PatsFaninAZ said:

I may have missed one, but I believe that is only the third time in a decade the Patriots have scored fewer than 14 points and won. Two are against the Jets and one against Buffalo in the last game of the season 2008 (13-0).

I simply cannot remember a game in the last decade that was won, completely, by the defense. Sure there have been wins where the defense got big stops. But a game where the defense protected a small lead like that for series after series after series? Can't remember it.

The Jets had 15 full possessions -- none were the end of half shortened variety. Usually a team that plays the Patriots is lucky to have 12. They allowed just two scoring drives -- and only one TD drive. On a night when just two TD drives allowed would have lost the game.

Consider the punting unit too, which I would argue was virtually as important as the defense. Despite the fact that the Patriots could not move the ball, the Jets started 14 of their 15 drives inside their own 34, and 12 drives inside their own 22 yard line. The Patriots punted 11 times. The Jets had SEVEN return yards. Total. On 11 punts. That is amazing. The Patriots had 514 yards of punts tonight, with a net of 507 yards. I would guess that is a record. And I wouldn't think it's very close. I don't know if they keep that sort of stat, but it's a shocker.

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Just a note, and I really don't get it, but on several of those punts, the Jets had NO ONE deep.

DaBruinz said:

Bolden is as useless as Blount.

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The Jets front 7 are very good. I don't think any RB was going to help the pats significantly in that game running the ball. The pats Oline was not winning many of the battles.

That is not to say that Blount played well.

SVN said:

Being a fiery leader and showing up the kids constantly in front of the whole world are two different things. As troy brown just said. You wont treat your own kids like that. They kids and he is 13 yr vet and if he loses control and shows up people like this , they arent going to get any better. Again as troy said, BB handled it great after the game, waved to the crowd, was chipper in the presser about teams attitude etc.
I know everyone has a different personality but Iam not a big fan of constantly showing up your co workers. And the the EZ play where edelman ran a wrong route, he scremed at at him leaving the field and then watched the replay and again screamed at him. not really a high point of his game .No sense of encouragement for thompkins after his tough non catch either. And he admitted it in the post game.

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We have absolutely no idea about the makeup of these kids. Brady might already have seen enough of dobson to be telling him, "You're very close to never seeing a ball from me again." So, sure. He's not going to bring him along. For all we know, Brady might think dobson is best suited for a job in some other industry. I'm going to give Brady the benefit of the doubt on this because of past experience.

Brady took Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth under his wing and resurrected their careers. David Givens and Deion Branch didn't seem to be all that great once they left. Randy Moss was doing nothing. Heck, even Brandon Lloyd ran precise routes (before turtling).

Who knows, Dobson may be like Chad Johnson. Who remembers Branch trying to tell Chad to line up correctly late in the season?

This is why I have confidence that Brady can work with new WRs, because he has done it before repeatedly.

I'm very very very concerned about Dobson. Something tells me it's going to be a long road for him.

I'm actually encouraged by Thompkins. Those low throws into the ground are harder for a 6-1 guy to make. Deion Branch and Troy Brown could do it, but not everyone can.

condon84 said:

For those saying that they liked Brady getting all demonstrative after what seemed like mistakes from his receivers, Brady did just admit that he showed bad body language last night.

Brady is a perfectionist. And I have no doubt that he's a great leader. But last night was not a great night showcasing his leadership qualities. I agree with Michael Irvin on this. He said the first few times the receiver made mistakes, he understood why Brady was demonstrative. But because Brady did it the entire game, when his young receivers were probably already demoralized, it didn't help them any. A little bit of encouragement to boost their confidence would have helped.

I'm sure Brady realized this and that's why he addressed it in his presser.

@Dr. Pain, to me, him admitting his mistake shows that he is a great leader.

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i completely agree. over the years, brady has turned into a cool, calm, collected to aggressive, fiery, and vocal leader. it can demoralize the whole team.

I try to give Brady a pass because he is obviously a "heat of the moment" type guy but I was feeling very uncomfortable for KT and AD last night. I mean, if KT just gets his hands slightly more under the ball, that is a TD. That's experience, not talent. He deserved some credit for that, imo. And Dobson was positively wretched through portions of this game so much so that I watched from behind a pillow, but later in the game he still pulled in a catch for a first down. He didn't completely crumble like I would have. It's his first game. I'm not sure screaming your head off at him is the best way to deal with it, but again, I am not Brady and I do tend to give him a lifetime pass for well, just about anything.

DaBruinz said:

Based on what? Gee.. I don't know. The fact that he takes stupid penalties on special teams. The fact that he can't seem to stay out of BB's dog house? The fact that he's just not that good, period. The only game Bolden did anything in last year was the Buffalo game and that's because they had a horrible run defense. YOU could have put up 100 yards rushing against that defense..

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Yawn, same excuse for BJGE in 08. He showed something in that 1 game Ridley doesn't have, explosion.

It's not a "fact" he's not good. BB disagrees. He's a 2nd year RB he kept despite nagging injuries and a suspension. There's a reason for that. It's to pressure the slow buffoon who's averaged 3.8ypc since last year midseason.

When Ridley isn't gashing the Titans week 1 or the Rams in London, he's mediocre and hurts this team.

The Ridley defenders are approaching Maroney level.