NFL fines Ndamukong Suh $100K for dirty hit

$100k is more than pocket change for anyone, even a premium NFL player, but guys like Suh won't be deterred until they have to sit at home, missing an entire game check and watching their teammates try to manage without them.

You can take it to the bank that one day, an OL is going to roll up really bad on his leg and destroy his knee.

KontradictioN said:

You can take it to the bank that one day, an OL is going to roll up really bad on his leg and destroy his knee.

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If only the Fish played DET this year. I'm sure Incognito would be a good bet of someone to do it.

EDIT: I don't wish injury on any player. I hope Suh learns and can start playing clean. But, still, Incognito probably would do it.

Lions' Ndamukong Suh on $100K fine: 'I don't change' - NFL.com

"Really you just play football, that's all I can do, I don't change"

It seems Suh has not interest in changing how how plays, 100k is obviously not enough, I'd like to see him suspended for 4-6 games and see if he changes his tune.

From my observations, Suh plays with malicious intent and appears to "want" injure other players. If you're a believer in karma, he'll get his.

I wish the Players' Union had the guts to actually speak up about this. I can understand that when some player gets drunk or gets in a fight in a nightclub, the union has to defend them. Heck, they are even obligated to file a grievance when Aaron Hernandez had his bonus withheld.

But in this case, it is one player behaving in a way that could end the career of another player. Why isn't the union upset at how one of their own could very, very easily have had his career ruined by a guy who is far and away the dirtiest player in the league?

If the league was somehow careless in such a way that placed a player in a career-threatening position, they would be screaming bloody murder. But when one of their own does it? Why get upset about that?

Jeff Saturday destroyed Suh this morning on SportsCenter saying that all he's doing is trying to injure and end the careers of guys that are just trying to make money to feed their families. There's a difference between playing with a nastiness that's acceptable in the trenches and just being a cheap shot artist. Suh is the latter. I wouldn't mind seeing someone put him on the shelf for a season. You want him to learn a lesson? That's the way to do it.

Watching the gif here, that was not quite as dirty as many of the initial comments led me to believe. I see a defenisve lineman trying to angle into a block on an offensive lineman and throwing himself at said lineman when he appears to be running past the point of intersection. And he's still pretty close to the ball carrier. If say, the ball carrier had to make a few moves, or had to fight his way through a tackle, it is possible the man Suh illegally blocked could have run him down. So honestly I can believe Suh was trying to make a football play here, not just making a collect call to the Vikings's medical staff.

Is it illegal to cut block a lineman in the open field, outside the tackle box, and/or while in pursuit during a turnover situation? Yes.

Do I see obvious malicious intent there instead of unthinking instinct? No.

I've seen Suh do far worse. Which is probably what this fine and most of the reaction is about, not necessarily the significance of the actual play. Not saying the fine or reaction is undeserved, clearly his instincts need to be brought under control, but I was expecting some Warren Sapp on Chad Clifton type action.

unoriginal said:

Watching the gif here, that was not quite as dirty as many of the initial comments led me to believe. I see a defenisve lineman trying to angle into a block on an offensive lineman and throwing himself at said lineman when he appears to be running past the point of intersection.

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Deliberately going at a guy's knees from behind is inexcusable and there are no set of circumstances where it can be justified.

There's a reason that maneuver is a 15 year penalty - and it ain't one of them new 15 yard penalties. This has been illegal for decades.

ctpatsfan77 said:

His base salary is actually only $530K or so, so 2 game suspension would cost him LESS than $100K.

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I was thinking 4 to 8 games.

SB39 said:

Deliberately going at a guy's knees from behind is inexcusable and there are no set of circumstances where it can be justified.

There's a reason that maneuver is a 15 year penalty - and it ain't one of them new 15 yard penalties. This has been illegal for decades.

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He doesn't go at him from behind. Suh comes in from the side and actually makes a concerted effort to get his helmet and shoulder in front.

ctpatsfan77 said:

Someone said basically "Don't say it's too little, $100G is $100G."

That sends a message, yes, but the message to the Lions needs to be: If Suh pulls this **** again, he sits, and YOU get fined $100K.

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If I'm not mistaken this is his sixth fine. Eventually, you just have to say enough is enough and suspend him for multiple games, or maybe even an entire season.

Such extreme measures may be necessary for him to finally get it. It's obvious that the fines aren't stopping it.

It's a safety issue.

The Players association should be at the front of this as well.

unoriginal said:

He doesn't go at him from behind. Suh comes in from the side and actually makes a concerted effort to get his helmet and shoulder in front.

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There is absolutely no Vikings player in front of the returner. Sullivan is at least 5 yards behind the play and jogging. Suh deliberately throws his elbow out to go along with all of his weight and momentum at Sullivan's knee area. He made an illegal, dirty hit. He has the reputation for a reason and it looks to me as if it's going to be staying around for a long time.

dales804 said:

There is absolutely no Vikings player in front of the returner. Sullivan is at least 5 yards behind the play and jogging. Suh deliberately throws his elbow out to go along with all of his weight and momentum at Sullivan's knee area. He made an illegal, dirty hit. He has the reputation for a reason and it looks to me as if it's going to be staying around for a long time.

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It is true there is no Vikings player in front of the returner, but I don't think Suh knows that. His head the entire time is looking for pursuit, it's not downfield. As a general football principle, the QB is the "last man" in these int return situations, so coaches often coach players to (a) put a body on the QB if you're near him, which they are usually only too happy to do and (b) knock out the pursuit if you're near it, giving the returner time to set up blocks or moves further downfield. I think we can all remember times when returners have been held up just enough by feeble obstacles downfield on a return that upfield pursuit catches them from behind. Sullivan is definitely pursuing the play here.

As for the rest, like the other post I responding directly to, I honestly don't know where you're seeing it. Sullivan, the Vikings offensive lineman, is running after the play, not jogging. He is in fact the closest Viking to the returner, so if you were asking Suh to block somebody on this play, which I can only imagine Gunther Cunningham and Schwartz strenuously emphasize, he could hardly have picked a better target at the moment he lined up and committed to his block, which likely happened before the gif on the page even starts.

You might say that at the very end, right before Suh hits him, Sullivan slows down a bit and turns his head from the ballcarrier, knowing he can't make the play and looking to protect himself, but Suh is already throwing himself forward at that point.

As for Suh's elbows, they are both clearly tucked into his body.

Is it an illegal hit? Yes, three times over. Sullivan is
(a) outside the tackle box
(b) more than five yards from the line of scrimmage
(c) the defender in a return situation
and can't be cut block.

Is it dirty? No, I don't believe you can say that. Sullivan is a legitimate target and Suh clearly does his best to make as clean a cut block as he can. This looks far more like Suh losing his head and/or being an idiot than making a calculating decision to injure another player.

My point again is not that Suh does not deserve a fine or a suspension; he has a track record and being an idiot who can't follow rules is sometimes as much a danger to other players as a guy out for blood. But I don't think its right to attribute every illegal thing he does to pure malice.

unoriginal said:

...
Is it dirty? No, I don't believe you can say that. Sullivan is a legitimate target and Suh clearly does his best to make as clean a cut block as he can. This looks far more like Suh losing his head and/or being an idiot than making a calculating decision to injure another player.

My point again is not that Suh does not deserve a fine or a suspension; he has a track record and being an idiot who can't follow rules is sometimes as much a danger to other players as a guy out for blood. But I don't think its right to attribute every illegal thing he does to pure malice.

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Much of what you say might be true (and I'm jealous that you had the time to analyze the play in that much detail), but the bottom line is that Suh's track record leaves him open to the suggestion that he was operating with malice. The league doesn't want to lose any player, much less a star like Brady, to a season-ending injury from what we seem to agree is an "idiot" like Suh. I have no problem with them sending a clear message in that regard.

Is that completely "fair?"

Probably not, but Suh created this problem for himself and the League is saying that it doesn't want players to stretch things as far as Suh does. I have no problem with that.

unoriginal said:

It is true there is no Vikings player in front of the returner, but I don't think Suh knows that. His head the entire time is looking for pursuit, it's not downfield. As a general football principle, the QB is the "last man" in these int return situations, so coaches often coach players to (a) put a body on the QB if you're near him, which they are usually only too happy to do and (b) knock out the pursuit if you're near it, giving the returner time to set up blocks or moves further downfield. I think we can all remember times when returners have been held up just enough by feeble obstacles downfield on a return that upfield pursuit catches them from behind. Sullivan is definitely pursuing the play here.

As for the rest, like the other post I responding directly to, I honestly don't know where you're seeing it. Sullivan, the Vikings offensive lineman, is running after the play, not jogging. He is in fact the closest Viking to the returner, so if you were asking Suh to block somebody on this play, which I can only imagine Gunther Cunningham and Schwartz strenuously emphasize, he could hardly have picked a better target at the moment he lined up and committed to his block, which likely happened before the gif on the page even starts.

You might say that at the very end, right before Suh hits him, Sullivan slows down a bit and turns his head from the ballcarrier, knowing he can't make the play and looking to protect himself, but Suh is already throwing himself forward at that point.

As for Suh's elbows, they are both clearly tucked into his body.

Is it an illegal hit? Yes, three times over. Sullivan is
(a) outside the tackle box
(b) more than five yards from the line of scrimmage
(c) the defender in a return situation
and can't be cut block.

Is it dirty? No, I don't believe you can say that. Sullivan is a legitimate target and Suh clearly does his best to make as clean a cut block as he can. This looks far more like Suh losing his head and/or being an idiot than making a calculating decision to injure another player.

My point again is not that Suh does not deserve a fine or a suspension; he has a track record and being an idiot who can't follow rules is sometimes as much a danger to other players as a guy out for blood. But I don't think its right to attribute every illegal thing he does to pure malice.

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You can't block a QB on a return; it's a penalty for roughing the passer. And we just disagree on what we're seeing. Maybe my view is biased because I believed him to be a dirty player before this play.

In the end, he made another illegal block that was unnecessary.

dales804 said:

You can't block a QB on a return; it's a penalty for roughing the passer.

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This is incorrect or, rather, only partially true. A QB who tries to get into the play is fair game.

Deus Irae said:

This is incorrect or, rather, only partially true. A QB who tries to get into the play is fair game.

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True. As the rule book says, a "distinctly defensive position."

dales804 said:

You can't block a QB on a return; it's a penalty for roughing the passer. And we just disagree on what we're seeing. Maybe my view is biased because I believed him to be a dirty player before this play.

In the end, he made another illegal block that was unnecessary.

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I believe Suh is a dirty player in general but on this play I am not seeing it clearly. I think this is a genuine attempt at a football play; stomping on offensive lineman and throwing QBs around after the pass are what I think of as clearly dirty play.

Yes, the block was illegal and, with the benefit of an overhead camera and hindsight, unnecessary.

But you can block the QB on a return, and in fact it is often done. Here's the rule:

NFL Rulebook said:

A passer who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has left his hand is obviously out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the defense through the end of the play or until the passer becomes a blocker, or until he becomes a runner upon taking a lateral from a teammate or picking up a loose ball, or, in the event of a change of possession on the play, until the passer assumes a distinctly defensive position.

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In practice, unless the passer stands stock still or starts walking towards his bench prematurely, he's considered to be in a defensive position.