The BIGGEST REACH of the 2013 draft: Harmon vs RANKED SAFETIES taken after him

Claremonster said:

Yeah, the guru's here that say that Harmon was such a bad pick...have no fcuking idea.

They just parrot all of the talking heads and other media hypesters.

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Wrong, Spastic!!

Just because you are all too evidently incapable of an Original Thought doesn't mean that we aren't!!

We are all playing at an enormous disadvantage ~ because we don't have access to the Scouting, the Depth of Coaching Tape, the Depth of Information, or the Eye to Eye Interviews, that Coach Bill does.

But it doesn't mean that ~ even working with such an enormous disadvantage ~ we cannot make our own Evaluations...and occasionally make better Calls even than Coach Bill himself, the Greatest in All the Land!!

And doing so doesn't mean that we are better than him...

It only means that it's possible to make a better decision than'm, every now and then ~ just possible, mind you ~ despite his enormous advantage in Information and his outstanding Skills.

And the fact that you lack that Capacity and are clearly bitter about it...doesn't change it.

...

Off The Grid said:

Wrong, Spastic!!

Just because you are all too evidently incapable of an Original Thought doesn't mean that we aren't!!

We are all playing at an enormous disadvantage ~ because we don't have access to the Scouting, the Depth of Coaching Tape, the Depth of Information, or the Eye to Eye Interviews, that Coach Bill does.

But it doesn't mean that ~ even working with such an enormous disadvantage ~ we cannot make our own Evaluations...and occasionally make better Calls even than Coach Bill himself, the Greatest in All the Land!!

And doing so doesn't mean that we are better than him...

It only means that it's possible to make a better decision than'm, every now and then ~ just possible, mind you ~ despite his enormous advantage in Information and his outstanding Skills.

And the fact that you lack that Capacity and are clearly bitter about it...doesn't change it.

...

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I'll make sure to tell BB that you want to take his place...

What a joker.

Off The Grid said:

You're assuming that he would've called Vollmer or Ridley WTF Picks.

No offense, but you should address what he actually wrote, not what you imagined he might.

Not trying to be a Moderator on you, Sciz, Old Dog...

But I thought he posted a pretty good Post...for a Rookie.

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Both were very much considered "head-scratching reaches," which is the term he used. Something like 5% of the forum's posters had heard of Vollmer before he was drafted. People were convinced that Ridley was a FB conversion prospect because he was too big and too slow. Both were widely considered two round reaches. Now I don't know what virginiapatriot thought in particular, but I'm pretty darn confident he hated at least one of those picks.

Off The Grid said:

Beautiful.

Couldn't've put it better.

Nice to see appropriately fawning Admiration for Coach Bill tempered by Critical Thinking!! :rocker:

Objectivity is a rare and beautiful thing.

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Is it tempered by film study of Harmon though? What is the basis for considering Harmon a bad pick? Because CBS didn't rank him high?

Off The Grid said:

Wrong, Spastic!!

Just because you are all too evidently incapable of an Original Thought doesn't mean that we aren't!!

We are all playing at an enormous disadvantage ~ because we don't have access to the Scouting, the Depth of Coaching Tape, the Depth of Information, or the Eye to Eye Interviews, that Coach Bill does.

But it doesn't mean that ~ even working with such an enormous disadvantage ~ we cannot make our own Evaluations...and occasionally make better Calls even than Coach Bill himself, the Greatest in All the Land!!

And doing so doesn't mean that we are better than him...

It only means that it's possible to make a better decision than'm, every now and then ~ just possible, mind you ~ despite his enormous advantage in Information and his outstanding Skills.

And the fact that you lack that Capacity and are clearly bitter about it...doesn't change it.

...

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Claremonster said:

I'll make sure to tell BB that you want to take his place...

What a joker.

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For those who can read, my Deference to Coach Bill was crystal clear.

But, yes...I have been known to crack a Joke or two...from time to time.

Sciz said:

Both were very much considered "head-scratching reaches," which is the term he used. Something like 5% of the forum's posters had heard of Vollmer before he was drafted. People were convinced that Ridley was a FB conversion prospect because he was too big and too slow. Both were widely considered two round reaches.

Now I don't know what virginiapatriot thought in particular, but I'm pretty darn confident he hated at least one of those picks.

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Well, that's fair to say, and well-argued, Sir, though I stand by my Statement.

I, for one, thought the Ridley Pick was an awful one, and that has certainly not proven to be the case. Ridley has of course proven to be phenomenal, but I would argue ~ as I always do ~ that Impact HalfBacks are far easier to find on Day 3 and Beyond than any Position, and that his starkly limited Utility ~ he hasn't shown a damned thing in the Passing Game, and thus makes his presence on the Field a "Show" as to what we're about to do ~ continues to support my Argument.

To spend an early 3rd on an HalfBack, you're only getting True Value if you get a FlexBack.

...Like Shifty Shane Vereen!!

Mind you: I got nothing but Love for Brother Stephan Ready When You Are Ridley.

***

Vollmer was before my time ~ before The Obsession had betaken me.

But I'm very confident that he would've been HIGH up on my Short List.

As for Brother Virginia...I couldn't say, of course.

Thanks, as always, Brother Sciz, for a Conversation I can sink my teeth into.

Off The Grid said:

Wrong, Spastic!!

Just because you are all too evidently incapable of an Original Thought doesn't mean that we aren't!!

We are all playing at an enormous disadvantage ~ because we don't have access to the Scouting, the Depth of Coaching Tape, the Depth of Information, or the Eye to Eye Interviews, that Coach Bill does.

But it doesn't mean that ~ even working with such an enormous disadvantage ~ we cannot make our own Evaluations...and occasionally make better Calls even than Coach Bill himself, the Greatest in All the Land!!

And doing so doesn't mean that we are better than him...

It only means that it's possible to make a better decision than'm, every now and then ~ just possible, mind you ~ despite his enormous advantage in Information and his outstanding Skills.

And the fact that you lack that Capacity and are clearly bitter about it...doesn't change it.

...

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manxman2601 said:

What is the basis for considering Harmon a bad pick?

Because CBS didn't rank him high?

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Do you honestly expect me to treat you with anything but Contempt, after that Insult?

And if you believe that your Sewage warrants any further response...you are mistaken.

Off The Grid said:

Do you honestly expect me to treat you with anything but Contempt, after that Insult?

And if you believe that your Sewage warrants any further response...you are mistaken.

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I really couldn't care how you regard me. My assertion remains the same. Most people criticising the Harmon pick have barely watched a down of football from him, thus making their criticism of the pick meaningless.

Now where you decided this was a criticism of you God only knows.

I was as underwhelmed as the rest of you were when the pick came in on draft night.

But if you watch Rutgers' defense, you'll see him playing single high on the majority of the team's snaps and holding his own. Being a timely help defender out of that role speaks to his range. IMO he's going to surprise fans. I have more questions about Logan Ryan's NFL fit than Harmon to be honest.

Get it shawtaay said:

I was as underwhelmed as the rest of you were when the pick came in on draft night.

But if you watch Rutgers' defense, you'll see him playing single high on the majority of the team's snaps and holding his own. Being a timely help defender out of that role speaks to his range. IMO he's going to surprise fans. I have more questions about Logan Ryan's NFL fit than Harmon to be honest.

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Yes x1000.

This is my point from earlier. How many people knew this about Harmon - that he almost exclusively played single high and just wasn't in a position to make an impression on the Mediots and pundits at any time. The fact that Harmon played single high should be used as a shibboleth to judge whether a persons opinion on him is in any way valid because if they didn't know that about him, then they didn't watch him.

How many of our safeties can play the single high role apart from Devin McCourty? It seems to me that Harmon, because of his college role, was brought in to backup McCourty as a like for like player. For that reason alone, I like his value in the third round.

Rutgers Football ‏@RFootball 20 Jun

Not a bad spring for @dharm32! Selected in the third round by the @Patriots, 4.0 GPA and Big East Scholar-Athlete award. #Chop #NFLKnights

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At the very least, doesn't sound like he'll be living an undercover thug life on weekends.

Get it shawtaay said:

At the very least, doesn't sound like he'll be living an undercover thug life on weekends.

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More likely some white collar crime

manxman2601 said:

Is it tempered by film study of Harmon though? What is the basis for considering Harmon a bad pick? Because CBS didn't rank him high?

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Because every scouting service in the entire world didn't rank him high.

captain stone said:

Because every scouting service in the entire world didn't rank him high.

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See Brady, Tom

Off The Grid said:

Do you honestly expect me to treat you with anything but Contempt, after that Insult?

And if you believe that your Sewage warrants any further response...you are mistaken.

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Please chill, Brother Grid, on the invective toward Brother Manx, who brings righteous facts & opinion to the draft forum. Though he holds Harmon in higher regard than I do, his thoughts are formed with the best of intentions, namely: the desire to see our Patriots improve with every draft pick and with every other player acquisition. Sometimes that desire requires a leap of faith in the FO which sometimes bears fruit while other times doesn't.
We'll all see eventually what becomes of the Wilson & Harmon picks; in the meantime, there's nothing wrong with declaring one's opinion on the matter while we're waiting. And if that means hurling (and receiving) the occasional sling & arrow at our fellow posters, then so be it. We're all adults here; I think we can take it. Besides, I've read worse than what Brother Manx sent your way - a lot worse.

Apologies for the lateness; I just returned from a week's vacation on the Left Coast and had no access or time to peruse the boards, so I'm playing a bit of catch-up.

captain stone said:

Please chill, Brother Grid, on the invective toward Brother Manx, who brings righteous facts & opinion to the draft forum. Though he holds Harmon in higher regard than I do, his thoughts are formed with the best of intentions, namely: the desire to see our Patriots improve with every draft pick and with every other player acquisition. Sometimes that desire requires a leap of faith in the FO which sometimes bears fruit while other times doesn't.
We'll all see eventually what becomes of the Wilson & Harmon picks; in the meantime, there's nothing wrong with declaring one's opinion on the matter while we're waiting. And if that means hurling (and receiving) the occasional sling & arrow at our fellow posters, then so be it. We're all adults here; I think we can take it. Besides, I've read worse than what Brother Manx sent your way - a lot worse.

Apologies for the lateness; I just returned from a week's vacation on the Left Coast and had no access or time to peruse the boards, so I'm playing a bit of catch-up.

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Thanks Captain. However I really don't give a monkey's bottom about what he thinks of me.

captain stone said:

Please chill, Brother Grid, on the invective toward Brother Manx, who brings righteous facts & opinion to the draft forum. Though he holds Harmon in higher regard than I do, his thoughts are formed with the best of intentions, namely: the desire to see our Patriots improve with every draft pick and with every other player acquisition. Sometimes that desire requires a leap of faith in the FO which sometimes bears fruit while other times doesn't.

We'll all see eventually what becomes of the Wilson & Harmon picks; in the meantime, there's nothing wrong with declaring one's opinion on the matter while we're waiting. And if that means hurling (and receiving) the occasional sling & arrow at our fellow posters, then so be it. We're all adults here; I think we can take it. Besides, I've read worse than what Brother Manx sent your way - a lot worse.

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TF???

WTF were you thinking, Stoney??

***

Here again is the flow of Chatter that evidently inspired your Misbegotten Rejoinder:

virginiapatriot said:

Not necessarily. BB could have taken Harmon in the 3rd-not to mention Tavon Wilson in the 2d last year-because he could. He does whatever he wants,and he has earned that freedom. But he definitely has shown a penchant for making head-scratching reaches. Harmon was a bad pick in the 3rd, but not as bad as Wilson in the 2d.

It reminds me of the Raiders pick of Mike Mitchell in the 2d round a few years ago. People railed and howled and called Al Davis senile. It was a bad pick. And after the draft, Raiders fans tried to justify it by saying the Bears were going to take Mitchell if the Raiders didn't.

Well, even if true, it was still a bad pick that the Raiders should have let the Bears enjoy.

Same with Harmon.

If another team was going to make a bad reach, the smart move would have been to let them. I appreciate the way many Pats fans have tried to justify the Harmon pick, but it was awful.

For me, the best justification,from a fan's point of view, is that the occasional draft mystery is a small price to pay for having the greatest HC of his generation.

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Off The Grid said:

Beautiful.

Couldn't've put it better.

Nice to see appropriately fawning Admiration for Coach Bill tempered by Critical Thinking!! :rocker:

Objectivity is a rare and beautiful thing.

Click to expand...

manxman2601 said:

What is the basis for considering Harmon a bad pick?

Because CBS didn't rank him high?

Click to expand...

Off The Grid said:

Do you honestly expect me to treat you with anything but Contempt, after that Insult?

And if you believe that your Sewage warrants any further response...you are mistaken.

Click to expand...

captain stone said:

Please chill, Brother Grid, on the invective toward Brother Manx, who brings righteous facts & opinion to the draft forum. Though he holds Harmon in higher regard than I do, his thoughts are formed with the best of intentions, namely: the desire to see our Patriots improve with every draft pick and with every other player acquisition. Sometimes that desire requires a leap of faith in the FO which sometimes bears fruit while other times doesn't.
We'll all see eventually what becomes of the Wilson & Harmon picks; in the meantime, there's nothing wrong with declaring one's opinion on the matter while we're waiting. And if that means hurling (and receiving) the occasional sling & arrow at our fellow posters, then so be it. We're all adults here; I think we can take it. Besides, I've read worse than what Brother Manx sent your way - a lot worse.

Apologies for the lateness; I just returned from a week's vacation on the Left Coast and had no access or time to peruse the boards, so I'm playing a bit of catch-up.

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I don't know what inspired your Stream of Sewage, Stoney, but you fail on several levels:

1 ~ You need to learn what "chill" means: I briefly expressed my Contempt and Moved On.
2 ~ You need to learn what "invective" means. Look it up.
3 ~ You also need to learn how to read: Manx didn't offer an "opinion" or anything at all. All he did was insult both me and the other guy, and do so at a pathetic and childish level, as is all too typical of him. I write Scouting Reports, and some Parasite is gonna suggest that I'm the one regurgitating the Work of others??

You seem like the decent type, Stoney, but your Defense of Manx's pathetic, disgusting, and unprovoked attack on a thoughtful post ~ that Virginia guy's ~ and my support of it...is equally pathetic and disgusting.

All I did was offer an "Attaboy" to a thoughtful, intriguing Post.

Why that elicited an excremental attack ~ or your defense of it ~ I neither know nor care.

And I'll keep my own counsel on who I hold to account for their Sewage, thank you very much.

Guys.... we are all friends here. Manxman, OTG relax. Now shake hands and please dont make this into a Deus/Dabruins look-a-like-competion.

The draft is the most intriging time of the year and this forum is really a blessing to talk about prospects coming up. And since I got here the mood and the friendlieness and humbleness of ones find has always been a thing of beauty. Dont ruin this, please

Daigle said:

Guys.... we are all friends here. Manxman, OTG relax. Now shake hands and please dont make this into a Deus/Dabruins look-a-like-competion.

The draft is the most intriging time of the year and this forum is really a blessing to talk about prospects coming up. And since I got here the mood and the friendlieness and humbleness of ones find has always been a thing of beauty. Dont ruin this, please

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Just for you

Actually you're right, this is an oasis away from the more contentious main board.

OT I know but it's interesting reading through this thread and the OP putting in a throw away line about Da'Rick Rogers, there's now reports coming out of Buffalo that he may not make their roster.

Worth a waiver claim if he is cut?