Idle thoughts - a hearsay edition.

AzPatsFan said:

Once again, I ask if anyone can support or deride Reiss' approval of reserve DT Grissom, or the play of any other reserve DT.

Right now it appears If I were Belichick I would PUP Armstead, keep three Wilfork, Kelly and Forston, cross my fingers, and hope for mid-season augmentation.

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I would too. Roll the dice on that. PUP Harrison as well obviously.

DarrylS said:

Of course, but to not have the resources to note the number of snaps each defensive player participates in... they utilize a lot of formations and players.

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So you watched the game but needed the snap count in order to formulate an opinion?

patfanken said:

7. A lot of talk about the DeSean Jackson TD. Here's my take (and I've seen the replay several times now):

First Talib - He was clearly beaten off the press by a nice move by Jackson. That's going to happen people, they are paying the other guys too. Jackson is a very elusive receiver and a perfect match up for Philly based on the kind of big CB Talib is. All that being said, Talib still got back into a decent "underneath" position that would have given him a chance to make a play if the pass hadn't been perfectly thrown. I have said time and time again, NO DB can cover a perfectly thrown ball without committing a penalty.

As to Gregory, he certainly was late to the party. BUT, before you condemn him, it would be necessary to figure out what the coverage was, and what his responsibilities were. If the coverage called and formation made Gregory responsible for sideline support over the top, then he deserves all the blame you can hand out, since his tardiness and angle to the ball were clearly evident. HOWEVER, if he had other responsibilities, and was only reacting to a ball in the air, then all the hate has been unjustified.


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You should look at the tape another time. It is blatantly clear.
The call was that we rushed 6 and left 5 on coverage, in man coverage. Gregory was the safety on the defensive right hash. He was responsible for an eligible receiver that stayed in to pick up the blitz. (Spikes did a poorly disguised delayed blitz, which was probably intended to get Gregorys man into a pattern so Spike could come free)
Once Gregory's man stays in, he is free. There were 2 receivers on his side of the field. Jackson was at the boundary on the other side of the field (def left).
There is no such defense that would have Gregory be responsible for reading his assigned man from the right hash, and then be responsible for deep help on the left boundary if his man stayed in to pick up the blitz.
Talib was on an island, and knew it. The only help available to him would have been if the receiver the left safety was responsible for stayed in to block, but that didn't happen, and was clear presnap that it wouldn't.
This from the coverage end, was all Talib. The blame should also be shared with the pass rush. IMO, Spikes did a poor job, however I leave room for the possibility he has spy duties since the QB was Vick.

Patjew said:

A Smith was a good RB during the first SB season. Terrible in 2003.

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That was the season where #32 was getting something like 3.8 YPC between the tackles, but only 1.0 outside... and Charlie Weis insisted that 2/3rds of the running plays should be toss sweeps.

UK_Pat37 said:

I was very happy with Mallett. Very first incompletion Dobson should be sitting in The gap, which is where Mallett threw it. Dobson just wasn't where he should be. There was one he threw in to thin air late in the second quarter which I thought was a similar case....Mallett was anticipating his WR being there. Add that'll Dobson's drop and his stats look a whole lot better than they already do.

Big difference? His mechanics are clearly more polished and he's gradually improving on the speed he processes his decisions. Not only that but he wasn't making inadvisable throws like he has done in the past.

Was impressed with his throw on the run too. Great placement. Nice athleticism.

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Maybe, but to me it looked like nothing more than a bad pass.

It was a quick slant with no defender in the area to break off the route for. Hitting Dobson in stride is a guaranteed first down whereas if he stopped to sit in a zone short of the first down, it would give the defense time to get up on him. Why would Mallett expect Aaron to make an unnecessary sight adjustment to the worse play?

Considering Ryan sprayed plenty of other passes - even a number of his completions were inaccurate - I think this was just more of the same.

Full and fair disclosure, I don't like Mallett and haven't since his Sophomore year. There is a chance I'm letting some of that seep into my thought process, but I think there is still plenty of reason to believe it was errant anyway.

patfanken said:

9. Anyone have a comment on the progress of Jake Bequette? He got a lot of reps.

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What's next for the Patriots? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

3. Buchanan over Bequette. When looking closer at the Patriots’ rotation at defensive end on Friday night, it caught the eye that 2013 seventh-round pick Michael Buchanan came on before 2012 third-round pick Jake Bequette. Buchanan, who looks the part at 6-foot-6 and 255 pounds, caught our eye with a nice combination of speed and power off the defensive left side. He got sucked inside on a Matt Barkley quarterback keeper for 8 yards in the second quarter -- which was a good learning experience for him when it comes to discipline in maintaining the edge -- but otherwise showed up with some solid work. He’s a player we want to see more of this week.

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Oswlek said:

Maybe, but to me it looked like nothing more than a bad pass.

It was a quick slant with no defender in the area to break off the route for. Hitting Dobson in stride is a guaranteed first down whereas if he stopped to sit in a zone short of the first down, it would give the defense time to get up on him. Why would Mallett expect Aaron to make an unnecessary sight adjustment to the worse play?

Considering Ryan sprayed plenty of other passes - even a number of his completions were inaccurate - I think this was just more of the same.

Full and fair disclosure, I don't like Mallett and haven't since his Sophomore year. There is a chance I'm letting some of that seep into my thought process, but I think there is still plenty of reason to believe it was errant anyway.

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It's fair to say that he's inconsistent with his accuracy but I wasn't as upset with it as I was last season. For me, and I'm not an expert so I can be wrong (begrudgingly haha), it felt like he's made some more small strides. If he continues to improve at the rate he is up until 2015 and when his contract is up for renewal, I'll be very happy.

As for the play we're talking about on his opening drive, I'm fairly confident with my limited knowledge that the slant was inadvisable and there was a very nice pocket between the coverage where he should have sat in.

Mallett looked pretty awful. He's got no touch at any range and lacks pocket presence. He looks like a very poor man's Bledsoe. I'd be scared - very scared - if Brady had to miss even a single series.

AndyJohnson said:

You should look at the tape another time. It is blatantly clear.
The call was that we rushed 6 and left 5 on coverage, in man coverage. Gregory was the safety on the defensive right hash. He was responsible for an eligible receiver that stayed in to pick up the blitz. (Spikes did a poorly disguised delayed blitz, which was probably intended to get Gregorys man into a pattern so Spike could come free)
Once Gregory's man stays in, he is free. There were 2 receivers on his side of the field. Jackson was at the boundary on the other side of the field (def left).
There is no such defense that would have Gregory be responsible for reading his assigned man from the right hash, and then be responsible for deep help on the left boundary if his man stayed in to pick up the blitz.
Talib was on an island, and knew it. The only help available to him would have been if the receiver the left safety was responsible for stayed in to block, but that didn't happen, and was clear presnap that it wouldn't.
This from the coverage end, was all Talib. The blame should also be shared with the pass rush. IMO, Spikes did a poor job, however I leave room for the possibility he has spy duties since the QB was Vick.

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Thanks for breaking it down in detail, AJ. Like I said, if Gregory responsibility WASN'T to help cover the deep sideline, then all the initial criticism of Gregory was completely unjustified. Based on your interpretation of the play (which makes sense) Gregory never should have come under attack.

Sometimes I don't understand why fans have the pathological need to place blame on every play that goes bad. Like you said, Talib was on an island. The Pats took a risk that simply didn't pan out . My initial comment was sparked by the fact that most of the media claimed that Jackson was "wide open". However when I saw the replay, it looked to me that Talib was beaten off the LOS, but recovered enough to have decent underneath coverage. He was simply beaten by a great throw and catch playing a coverage that made his job that much more difficult. It was a risk/reward play and we lost on that one.

The play was very similar to the Vareen TD. The coverage on Vareen was even better, but the defensive player was ultimately beaten by a great throw and catch. Fans have got to understand that passes are going to be completed MORE than 50% of the time under the best of circumstances. In today's game when a secondary can hold a team to under a 60% completion rate, they are doing a great job.

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Soooo are the pats still getting that first rounder for mallet next year?

ATippett56 said:

What's next for the Patriots? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

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Nice find Tip. After the draft I though the Pats got great value in the 7th round. Based on what we've seen in camp, in a lot of years both picks would have a great chance to make the team. However THIS year, might be harder simply because of the talent at ILB and the numbers of DE's we have will make it that much harder for these two rookies dispute having a good TC

patfanken said:

Sometimes I don't understand why fans have the pathological need to place blame on every play that goes bad.

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It is because you are on a forum with a bunch of ignorant whiners. Andy's post above - breaking down the exact way the play developed is the reason why the forum is so great i.e. real football knowledge from the technical side. That is exactly how BB would probably break down that play.

Also as mentioned before those fans you mention who love to blame. They are easy to read = If our offense makes a great play it is because of our amazing offense. If the other teams offense does the same thing it is because of or crappy defense.

People love to complain and project their own failures here. Its just human nature when you deal with the weak minded.

UK_Pat37 said:

It's fair to say that he's inconsistent with his accuracy but I wasn't as upset with it as I was last season. For me, and I'm not an expert so I can be wrong (begrudgingly haha), it felt like he's made some more small strides. If he continues to improve at the rate he is up until 2015 and when his contract is up for renewal, I'll be very happy.

As for the play we're talking about on his opening drive, I'm fairly confident with my limited knowledge that the slant was inadvisable and there was a very nice pocket between the coverage where he should have sat in.

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Care to break down why? I haven't rewatched it, but from my flawed recall, it seemed like Dobson overran your suggested sitting point and still had plenty of room between himself and the nearest defender. Unless the play call was to sit, which we'll never know, I'd really like to hear why it would have behooved Aaron to break off the route.

patfanken said:

Thanks for breaking it down in detail, AJ. Like I said, if Gregory responsibility WASN'T to help cover the deep sideline, then all the initial criticism of Gregory was completely unjustified. Based on your interpretation of the play (which makes sense) Gregory never should have come under attack.

Sometimes I don't understand why fans have the pathological need to place blame on every play that goes bad. Like you said, Talib was on an island. The Pats took a risk that simply didn't pan out . My initial comment was sparked by the fact that most of the media claimed that Jackson was "wide open". However when I saw the replay, it looked to me that Talib was beaten off the LOS, but recovered enough to have decent underneath coverage. He was simply beaten by a great throw and catch playing a coverage that made his job that much more difficult. It was a risk/reward play and we lost on that one.

The play was very similar to the Vareen TD. The coverage on Vareen was even better, but the defensive player was ultimately beaten by a great throw and catch. Fans have got to understand that passes are going to be completed MORE than 50% of the time under the best of circumstances. In today's game when a secondary can hold a team to under a 60% completion rate, they are doing a great job.

.

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You will note that the TD came on a big Blitz. Exactly the type of play the impatient know-nothings always urging that BB call more. Big Risk, Big Reward or in this frequent case Big Risk, Big Loss.

I found an interesting stat, nthat I have found hard to believe. The Patriot Bend don't Break Defense, was Top Ten in number of Three-and-outs last season.

patfanken said:

Thanks for breaking it down in detail, AJ. Like I said, if Gregory responsibility WASN'T to help cover the deep sideline, then all the initial criticism of Gregory was completely unjustified. Based on your interpretation of the play (which makes sense) Gregory never should have come under attack.

Sometimes I don't understand why fans have the pathological need to place blame on every play that goes bad. Like you said, Talib was on an island. The Pats took a risk that simply didn't pan out . My initial comment was sparked by the fact that most of the media claimed that Jackson was "wide open". However when I saw the replay, it looked to me that Talib was beaten off the LOS, but recovered enough to have decent underneath coverage. He was simply beaten by a great throw and catch playing a coverage that made his job that much more difficult. It was a risk/reward play and we lost on that one.

The play was very similar to the Vareen TD. The coverage on Vareen was even better, but the defensive player was ultimately beaten by a great throw and catch. Fans have got to understand that passes are going to be completed MORE than 50% of the time under the best of circumstances. In today's game when a secondary can hold a team to under a 60% completion rate, they are doing a great job.

.

Click to expand...

You will note that the TD came on a big Blitz. Exactly the type of play the impatient know-nothings always urging that BB call more. Big Risk, Big Reward or in this frequent case Big Risk, Big Loss.

I found an interesting stat, that I found hard to believe. The Patriot Bend don't Break Defense, was Top Ten in number of Three-and-outs last season. It must be a statistical fluke.

Rob0729 said:

Here's a picture where Jones has an assist on the Kelly sack and Jones was responsible for the strip of the ball (although Kelly got credit for it even though Kelly was around his waist).

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Saturday morning Ken will be breaking down NE Tamba Bay via pics from the pics in the Herald and Globe.

Coach42 said:

This OL might be the best of the BB era.

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Let's hope - but that would be saying a lot.

Let's at least take a step back and truly appreciate what a great job Dante has done, year in and year out over his career here and what that has meant to Brady and the overall success of the team for so long.

Dante should seriously get consideration for the Hall of Fame in my opinion, though I could be biased.

AzPatsFan said:

You will note that the TD came on a big Blitz. Exactly the type of play the impatient know-nothings always urging that BB call more. Big Risk, Big Reward or in this frequent case Big Risk, Big Loss.

I found an interesting stat, that I found hard to believe. The Patriot Bend don't Break Defense, was Top Ten in number of Three-and-outs last season. It must be a statistical fluke.

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At first glance that surprised me as well, but thinking back it kind of makes sense. It's felt like, the last couple of years, that the Pats do get a fair number of 3 and outs, but once they give up that first 1st-down, it spirals out of control into a long drive. Not sure what that indicates, but it's interesting that the facts seem to bare that out as well (top ten in 3 and outs, but bottom ten in total yards allowed).

AzPatsFan said:

Once again, I ask if anyone can support or deride Reiss' approval of reserve DT Grissom, or the play of any other reserve DT.

Right now it appears If I were Belichick I would PUP Armstead, keep three Wilfork, Kelly and Forston, cross my fingers, and hope for mid-season augmentation.

Click to expand...

Although it was late in the game, Anthony Rashad White(?) absolutely stonewalled some RB in the backfield. Guy looks like a bowling ball. Might have been a big 3rd or 4th down play to end the game, but I'm going on memory here.

Also, Bequette showed good pressure, but he absolutely has to develop some kind of inside move. He seems to have good speed off the edge, but gets driven outside too easily.