2014 Draft Prospect Thread

s3antana5757 said:

I believe that's the video I watched. Yes he had some easy drops on screen passes. He's not a great in-line blocker but at the second level he's very good. I really wasn't expecting much of him as a blocker, but I was a pleasantly surprised. The senior TE group is not very good, but ASJ, Lyeria, and maybe Ebron could all be first rounders.

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Don't sleep on Amaro. Very quick for a TE.

Just wondering how you folks would feel about the idea of our Patriots trading, literally, whatever it would take, to get in position to draft Johnny Manziel next year. From what I've seen of this guy, he may have what it takes to become the best QB in the NFL for many years. I know that Brady says: "I feel better than I ever have." I also know that most of share my great love and respect for him as the best QB ever to wear a Patriots uniform. But, let's face it, he'll be 36 when the season starts. IMO, NOW is the time to get serious about the next long term QB for our team.

If, as I suggested above, Johnny Manziel is going to be the best QB in the NFL for most of the rest of this decade, and much of the next one; do you really want him to play for another team? I don't.

I don't think this kid is the next Ryan Leaf. I think he's the real deal.

So, as we prepare to watch the question that is the 2013 season unfold, what are your thoughts about the QB position for the years beyond it?

--
--- George

patsfangr said:

Just wondering how you folks would feel about the idea of our Patriots trading, literally, whatever it would take, to get in position to draft Johnny Manziel next year. From what I've seen of this guy, he may have what it takes to become the best QB in the NFL for many years. I know that Brady says: "I feel better than I ever have." I also know that most of share my great love and respect for him as the best QB ever to wear a Patriots uniform. But, let's face it, he'll be 36 when the season starts. IMO, NOW is the time to get serious about the next long term QB for our team.

If, as I suggested above, Johnny Manziel is going to be the best QB in the NFL for most of the rest of this decade, and much of the next one; do you really want him to play for another team? I don't.

I don't think this kid is the next Ryan Leaf. I think he's the real deal.

So, as we prepare to watch the question that is the 2013 season unfold, what are your thoughts about the QB position for the years beyond it?

--
--- George

Click to expand...

Manzel is interesting as a prospect but there's no way in hell I'd make that trade, for starters we already have one of the best QBs ever, why would you compromise his ability to win a SB so you can get someone who is completely unproven? Manziel's game might not translate to the NFL level, and we haven't even touched his lack of maturity yet.

Being the face of a franchise is not just a job, it's a lifestyle, and he's not ready for it.

Keep TFB and put him in the best position to win!

patsfangr said:

Just wondering how you folks would feel about the idea of our Patriots trading, literally, whatever it would take, to get in position to draft Johnny Manziel next year. From what I've seen of this guy, he may have what it takes to become the best QB in the NFL for many years. I know that Brady says: "I feel better than I ever have." I also know that most of share my great love and respect for him as the best QB ever to wear a Patriots uniform. But, let's face it, he'll be 36 when the season starts. IMO, NOW is the time to get serious about the next long term QB for our team.

If, as I suggested above, Johnny Manziel is going to be the best QB in the NFL for most of the rest of this decade, and much of the next one; do you really want him to play for another team? I don't.

I don't think this kid is the next Ryan Leaf. I think he's the real deal.

So, as we prepare to watch the question that is the 2013 season unfold, what are your thoughts about the QB position for the years beyond it?

--
--- George

Click to expand...

I could talk about Johnny Manziel forever. The guy is crazy, for good and for bad, unlike any player I have ever seen. The thing I hate about watching Manziel play is that he gives fans a misconception about how the game is supposed to be played. He's at his best reducing the game to its basest level of simplicity; running around, making defenders miss, and waiting for his receivers to break off their routes and improvise, often ending the play throwing off his back foot. He makes the game look so much less complex than it actually is. Don't get me wrong; he can make a typical West Coast offense throw when needed. But Manziel doesn't play football like a college, NFL, or even high school quarterback. He plays the game like millions of people across the country play Madden Football. He plays it like a video game. And I don't mean that in the sense that he has "video game stats." I mean he actually plays it like fans play video games. Your typical fan has no idea what a progression read is. When they call a pass play, they are looking at open receivers in a random order, running around and having fun. And every time Johnny Manziel makes a few pass rushers embarrassed but holds onto the football so long that the play is broken, the receivers just run around. They are improvising. There is no progression read. It's chaos and disorganization. And that's when Manziel is at his best. He perpetuates the notion that you don't have to be smart to play professional football. That's mostly true for running backs (a little bit of IQ is needed for protection schemes, but not much else), and it can be true for man coverage corners. I'm not saying isn't smart. But he plays his best when he's playing like a 10 year old.

The most incredible thing I see with Manziel is that he has more confidence in his arm than any quarterback I've ever seen, but he's actually right almost every single time. I've never seen a quarterback with the arrogance to think they can make some of these off your back foot across your body throws that Madden Football here attempts like they are no big deal. Sometimes the receivers can't even believe it when they see the pass. But when I see those crazy passes hit his receivers in the numbers, the only thing I think to myself is "How can I criticize a guy for attempting throws he can't realistically make when he always makes them?"

Manziel will be a massive bust, if you're going to trade the entire draft away do it for Clowney.

Big-T said:

Manziel will be a massive bust, if you're going to trade the entire draft away do it for Clowney.

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Or Bridgewater who will be a much better NFL QB than Manziel. Or Aaron Lynch who is one hell of a player.

Big-T said:

Manziel will be a massive bust, if you're going to trade the entire draft away do it for Clowney.

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Well, Clowney is obviously awesome. No one was suggesting Manziel was better, but it is easier to trade for pick 10 than pick 1. Manziel may be available at pick 10.

Also, I've gotten a look at Derek Carr. He's interesting. He flashes talent everywhere, but sometimes hyper-focuses on certain areas of his game, causing others to falter. If he's not throwing well, the next drive he will focus on nothing but perfect mechanics, at the expense of his reads, e.g., a quick slant against cover 2. That might work if another receiver is anywhere near the flat zone, but, given that the flat defender wasn't at all conflicted with regards as to who he should cover, it was an easy play, nearly a pick six. On the other hand, he's one of the only quarterbacks I've ever seen make a coverage read (as opposed to a progression read) at the collegiate level, and he made a perfect read, a receiver running the fly with no help over the top. However, being so focused on his reads, his mechanics were awful (it looked like a fadeaway) and I can't imagine the throw being much more inaccurate. Still, he flashes greatness in every aspect of quarterbacking (except making a pass rusher miss a tackle, plus iffy foot quickness), which makes him intriguing. I'd say he's a poor man's Joe Flacco right now, with the potential to be much better than Flacco down the road.

Manziel has alcohol, anger management and (lack of) maturity issues. He also plays by the seat of his pants. Kinda like a Tebow playing style with an anti-Tebow personality. Not the kind of player and person that would fit with the Pats.

Between being asked to leave the Manning with a hangover and what his dad said about him recently his draft stock is plummeting. Unless he turns it around quick we'll be able to sit tight and grab him on day 3. If we even want to go the route.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Also, between Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins the DE spot looks to be good or better for years to come. I'd rather spend a 1st on a big DT, CB or stud SS if one exists. Also Center and receiving TE is something I'll be watching out for.

mackenzie45220 said:

Well, Clowney is obviously awesome. No one was suggesting Manziel was better, but it is easier to trade for pick 10 than pick 1. Manziel may be available at pick 10.

Also, I've gotten a look at Derek Carr. He's interesting. He flashes talent everywhere, but sometimes hyper-focuses on certain areas of his game, causing others to falter. If he's not throwing well, the next drive he will focus on nothing but perfect mechanics, at the expense of his reads, e.g., a quick slant against cover 2. That might work if another receiver is anywhere near the flat zone, but, given that the flat defender wasn't at all conflicted with regards as to who he should cover, it was an easy play, nearly a pick six. On the other hand, he's one of the only quarterbacks I've ever seen make a coverage read (as opposed to a progression read) at the collegiate level, and he made a perfect read, a receiver running the fly with no help over the top. However, being so focused on his reads, his mechanics were awful (it looked like a fadeaway) and I can't imagine the throw being much more inaccurate. Still, he flashes greatness in every aspect of quarterbacking (except making a pass rusher miss a tackle, plus iffy foot quickness), which makes him intriguing. I'd say he's a poor man's Joe Flacco right now, with the potential to be much better than Flacco down the road.

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He's been getting some Blaine Gabbert comparisons I've noticed - largely because he has happy feet when pressured. I haven't got round to him yet. do you see that in him?

manxman2601 said:

He's been getting some Blaine Gabbert comparisons I've noticed - largely because he has happy feet when pressured. I haven't got round to him yet. do you see that in him?

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Gabbert is definitely faster, and sure, Carr gets some happy feet, but Gabbert panics as if his hair was on fire when there is pressure... Carr is not that bad in that sense. Still, I do see similarities... rifles the ball one throw, floats one the next, even if it's basically the same route as the first.

One thing I will say about Carr's mobility; again, he definitely does not have the pure speed of Gabbert, but, when he does scramble, he picks the perfect moment to do so, sort of like Aaron Rodgers does.

patsfangr said:

Just wondering how you folks would feel about the idea of our Patriots trading, literally, whatever it would take, to get in position to draft Johnny Manziel next year. From what I've seen of this guy, he may have what it takes to become the best QB in the NFL for many years. I know that Brady says: "I feel better than I ever have." I also know that most of share my great love and respect for him as the best QB ever to wear a Patriots uniform. But, let's face it, he'll be 36 when the season starts. IMO, NOW is the time to get serious about the next long term QB for our team.

If, as I suggested above, Johnny Manziel is going to be the best QB in the NFL for most of the rest of this decade, and much of the next one; do you really want him to play for another team? I don't.

I don't think this kid is the next Ryan Leaf. I think he's the real deal.

So, as we prepare to watch the question that is the 2013 season unfold, what are your thoughts about the QB position for the years beyond it?

--
--- George

Click to expand...

I have no time for Manziel. Clowney on the other hand...

ausbacker said:

I have no time for Manziel. Clowney on the other hand...

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Trading for Clowney just isn't realistic. The asking price for the number one pick of the draft is pretty damn high.

manxman2601 said:

Or Bridgewater who will be a much better NFL QB than Manziel. Or Aaron Lynch who is one hell of a player.

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Lynch is a total manchild:rocker:

mackenzie45220 said:

Trading for Clowney just isn't realistic. The asking price for the number one pick of the draft is pretty damn high.

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Everything is realistic if you're prepared to pay for it.

ausbacker said:

Everything is realistic if you're prepared to pay for it.

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The relevant ? is whether BB is willing to pay that price, my money says no.

Snake Eyes said:

The relevant ? is whether BB is willing to pay that price, my money says no.

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Most likely, no.

But just imagine if he got a rush of blood to the head and decided that Clowney was worth trading the entire draft away to get.

Unrelated note to the Pats:
It looks a good year to be a bad team with some of the talent at the top of the 2014 draft.

Big-T said:

Unrelated note to the Pats:
It looks a good year to be a bad team with some of the talent at the top of the 2014 draft.

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Well, at least the Jets have something to look forward to!

mackenzie45220 said:

I could talk about Johnny Manziel forever. The guy is crazy, for good and for bad, unlike any player I have ever seen. The thing I hate about watching Manziel play is that he gives fans a misconception about how the game is supposed to be played. He's at his best reducing the game to its basest level of simplicity; running around, making defenders miss, and waiting for his receivers to break off their routes and improvise, often ending the play throwing off his back foot. He makes the game look so much less complex than it actually is. Don't get me wrong; he can make a typical West Coast offense throw when needed. But Manziel doesn't play football like a college, NFL, or even high school quarterback. He plays the game like millions of people across the country play Madden Football. He plays it like a video game. And I don't mean that in the sense that he has "video game stats." I mean he actually plays it like fans play video games. Your typical fan has no idea what a progression read is. When they call a pass play, they are looking at open receivers in a random order, running around and having fun. And every time Johnny Manziel makes a few pass rushers embarrassed but holds onto the football so long that the play is broken, the receivers just run around. They are improvising. There is no progression read. It's chaos and disorganization. And that's when Manziel is at his best. He perpetuates the notion that you don't have to be smart to play professional football. That's mostly true for running backs (a little bit of IQ is needed for protection schemes, but not much else), and it can be true for man coverage corners. I'm not saying isn't smart. But he plays his best when he's playing like a 10 year old.

The most incredible thing I see with Manziel is that he has more confidence in his arm than any quarterback I've ever seen, but he's actually right almost every single time. I've never seen a quarterback with the arrogance to think they can make some of these off your back foot across your body throws that Madden Football here attempts like they are no big deal. Sometimes the receivers can't even believe it when they see the pass. But when I see those crazy passes hit his receivers in the numbers, the only thing I think to myself is "How can I criticize a guy for attempting throws he can't realistically make when he always makes them?"

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Well put.

Whether your a fan of Manziel or not, you have to be excited to see how he pans out on Sundays. He arguably had the greatest season for a college QB ever (compare his stats to heisman Tebow or Newton), averaging nearly 400 yards per game rushing and receiving in the SEC. He's impossible to evaluate for the pro game, but that's what makes him so interesting.

IMO he's a different version of Russell Wilson:

+faster
=arm strength
=insane pocket presence (Tarkenton style)
-maturity
= or - accuracy

patsinthesnow said:

Well put.

Whether your a fan of Manziel or not, you have to be excited to see how he pans out on Sundays. He arguably had the greatest season for a college QB ever (compare his stats to heisman Tebow or Newton), averaging nearly 400 yards per game rushing and receiving in the SEC. He's impossible to evaluate for the pro game, but that's what makes him so interesting.

IMO he's a different version of Russell Wilson:

+faster
=arm strength
=insane pocket presence (Tarkenton style)
-maturity
= or - accuracy

Click to expand...

I would say he's more accurate than Wilson on impossible throws. The guy is no less accurate with 30 yards throws off his back foot than 10 yard throws with his feet set. It's like he's showing off. It feels like he could make behind the back passes for completions. That contributes to his arrogant style of play

You know what sucks for you Boston guys? When Aaron Hernandez is arrested for murder, you don't get to play him AND he you have to deal with a huge cap penalty. If A-Rod gets banned from baseball, the Yankees don't have to deal with his play AND they get out of paying his horrible contract, without any consequence.