Aaron Dobson - underestimated even as a rookie?

NEPettyOfficer72 said:

I've been on leave now for the past week which is the reason for all of my posts, I am bored. But I want to know people's take on Aaron Dobson, the rookie WR and what his role will be in the offense.

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My take is that what they need Dobson to do is to be a halfway credible X receiver.

As such, as much as everyone talks about how "complicated" the offense is, I think they can dumb down his routes a bit

Brady has an incentive to give him those opportunities just so long as he can create distance in coverage and get his hands on the ball (and that's on Brady too)

If he can show a bit during pre-season I think Defenses may give him the benefit of the doubt and help stretch the field initially out of caution - but ultimately he'll have to prove he's a deep threat.

Since they don't go deep on every play (far from it - nor should they) the real trick will be to see if Dobson can get in sync with Brady in the short game. It'd be a shame to have a guy on the field who is a one trick pony - but at this point, we need that one trick!

TommyBrady12 said:

also keeping my eye on cordarelle patterson and making sure that he pats didn't screw that up. honestly, if patterson turns out to be a star, then we need to get a GM to the drafting....

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No. Just... no. Even if Patterson does turn out to be a star, which is miles from being a sure thing, the Pats made the right trade. The Pats are one of the absolute best-drafting teams in the NFL precisely because they make trades like that one. And one of the last teams that they should be emulating is the Vikings, FFS.

DaBronxPats14 said:

TB & BB should be on A.Dobs as much as possible to learn Playbook and their system. He's has alot of potential and we need him NOW! At least give him a legit chance to see what he has and evaluate from there.

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Weird - I figured they'd give him an extended vacation and tell him to take his time and not stress out over the whole playbook thing.

Oswlek said:

Fair enough.

Me, personally, I feel pretty confident that one of Collins, Ryan and Boyce will end up offering as much value. Two may completely crap the bed - probably will, in fact - but as long as you get an equally good player out of it, who cares? It isn't like you'd have gotten more players by picking at #29.

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I think he was available with their early second round pick. That's when I was upset they passed on him. I loved the trade out of the first, but I just have a feeling that Woods is going to be a very good pro for a very long time.

But to sort of piggy back the above poster, hopefully he does well in Buffalo but was limited and will be able to sign a nice contrat with the Pats when his rookie deal expires. (Just in time for Brady's retirement ...)

tombonneau said:

I think he was available with their early second round pick. That's when I was upset they passed on him. I loved the trade out of the first, but I just have a feeling that Woods is going to be a very good pro for a very long time.

But to sort of piggy back the above poster, hopefully he does well in Buffalo but was limited and will be able to sign a nice contrat with the Pats when his rookie deal expires. (Just in time for Brady's retirement ...)

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He was picked in the early 40s and NE selected Collins at 52.

Of course, it is possible that they made a different trade and still ended up with Boyce along with Woods (or something like that). But I still like the trade they made.

NEPettyOfficer72 said:

I think this guy will be just fine.. Check out the staff, the quarterback, and the headcoach vs Robert Wood's situation.

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You could say that about every Pats WR they drafted in the last ten years but the presence of BB and Brady doesn't seem to make a difference for these guys; they almost all flopped. Meanwhile, a guy like Cecil Shorts is drafted late and lights it up with the Jaguars (same if not better than Woods situation). I mean I could go on and on about good to great WRs on bad teams with bad QBs. They are everywhere.

NEPettyOfficer72 said:

Also the complexity of offense that he played in college, like I mentioned before, the fact that he didn't drop any passes his senior year

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Not sure where this myth started but it's bene disproven multiple times.

Look obviously like everyone else here I want him to do great but until I start hearing camp buzz like we had from Branch his rookie year or Gronk or what you already hear about Amendola, I'm tempering expectations significantly.

You can say "It's too early, it's too early" until your blue in the face, but being a fan who follows camps like almost everyone else here, how many successful receiving talents took a few seasons "to get it" vs. how many "got it" right away. Shoot, even Edelman switching positions looked like a fit out of the gate. Or Gafney jumping on board midseason. Meanwhile, every single player who took awhile to get in sync - Galloway, Ocho, Price, Jackson, all of them - never got in sync. Maybe I'm wrong and there have been exceptions but it usually is pretty obvious who is going to work and who is going to be a dud.

tombonneau said:

You can say "It's too early, it's too early" until your blue in the face, but being a fan who follows camps like almost everyone else here, how many successful receiving talents took a few seasons "to get it" vs. how many "got it" right away. Shoot, even Edelman switching positions looked like a fit out of the gate. Or Gafney jumping on board midseason. Meanwhile, every single player who took awhile to get in sync - Galloway, Ocho, Price, Jackson, all of them - never got in sync. Maybe I'm wrong and there have been exceptions but it usually is pretty obvious who is going to work and who is going to be a dud.

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I always thought Jabs clicked right away, but was surprised when I went back through his game log (at MaineMan's suggestion) and saw that it took him longer than I realized. Over his first 7 games (after being inactive for a couple weeks) he had a total of 11 catches and 142 yards. It wasn't until the playoffs when he nearly equaled those numbers against both NY and SD, that he was fully up to speed.

Beyond that, historical rosters are littered with guys who take time to develop. Welker, Troy Brown and David Givens are just a few who became very good receivers after doing nothing for (at least) one season.

I'm not disputing that lately it seem blatantly clear within a few weeks who will work, I'm just not sure whether that is a small sample issue or a genuine trend.

Oswlek said:

I always thought Jabs clicked right away, but was surprised when I went back through his game log (at MaineMan's suggestion) and saw that it took him longer than I realized. Over his first 7 games (after being inactive for a couple weeks) he had a total of 11 catches and 142 yards. It wasn't until the playoffs when he nearly equaled those numbers against both NY and SD, that he was fully up to speed.

Beyond that, historical rosters are littered with guys who take time to develop. Welker, Troy Brown and David Givens are just a few who became very good receivers after doing nothing for (at least) one season.

I'm not disputing that lately it seem blatantly clear within a few weeks who will work, I'm just not sure whether that is a small sample issue or a genuine trend.

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Yeah, that's a common misconception in terms of Gaffney immediately stepping in and contributing during the '06 campaign. He really was just getting the scheme down and began to produce and show up big in the playoff run.

I think that there is a possibility that the team learns from some past experiences in terms of narrowing down some of the routes and responsibilities a bit--although that's just my opinion of course. If that is the case then I think that Dobson can contibute a bit more than many are expecting this season.

And should he receive anywhere near the number of targets that Llyod did last year (130), there's a chance that he can take over that role pretty nicely, and potentially be a nice upgrade on some of the things that Llyod lacked such as intermediate/downfield throws, YACs, and even the ability to draw attention from a safety at times.

I still would be somewhat pleased to see B.Llyod signed to take over a lesser role in terms of being a pure possession receiver in the role that Branch has given us; possibly something closer to the production of 2011 than 2012 though. I would be very disappointed to see Llyod brought in again to be our WR2. I thought that there were just too many flaws for that particular role, although some will certainly disagree with me.

supafly said:

Yeah, that's a common misconception in terms of Gaffney immediately stepping in and contributing during the '06 campaign. He really was just getting the scheme down and began to produce and show up big in the playoff run.

I think that there is a possibility that the team learns from some past experiences in terms of narrowing down some of the routes and responsibilities a bit--although that's just my opinion of course. If that is the case then I think that Dobson can contibute a bit more than many are expecting this season.

And should he receive anywhere near the number of targets that Llyod did last year (130), there's a chance that he can take over that role pretty nicely, and potentially be a nice upgrade on some of the things that Llyod lacked such as intermediate/downfield throws, YACs, and even the ability to draw attention from a safety at times.

I still would be somewhat pleased to see B.Llyod signed to take over a lesser role in terms of being a pure possession receiver in the role that Branch has given us; possibly something closer to the production of 2011 than 2012 though. I would be very disappointed to see Llyod brought in again to be our WR2. I thought that there were just too many flaws for that particular role, although some will certainly disagree with me.

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I think Dobson won't be able to put up the numbers Lloyd put up, but with his physical abilities, he could end up having a bigger impact on the offense than Lloyd will ever have. It would be awesome if Dobson can be a good red zone threat, with his big body. Brady would finally love to have a guy (not named Gronkowski) who he could throw fades/jump balls to and have them go get it.

I agree with the fact that Lloyd should be brought in, just to be a guy who could "move the chains." But right now, the WR position is in a logjam, but hopefully we can find out who proves themselves. So much unproven talent on this position as of now.

supafly said:

Yeah, that's a common misconception in terms of Gaffney immediately stepping in and contributing during the '06 campaign. He really was just getting the scheme down and began to produce and show up big in the playoff run.

I think that there is a possibility that the team learns from some past experiences in terms of narrowing down some of the routes and responsibilities a bit--although that's just my opinion of course. If that is the case then I think that Dobson can contibute a bit more than many are expecting this season.

And should he receive anywhere near the number of targets that Llyod did last year (130), there's a chance that he can take over that role pretty nicely, and potentially be a nice upgrade on some of the things that Llyod lacked such as intermediate/downfield throws, YACs, and even the ability to draw attention from a safety at times.

I still would be somewhat pleased to see B.Llyod signed to take over a lesser role in terms of being a pure possession receiver in the role that Branch has given us; possibly something closer to the production of 2011 than 2012 though. I would be very disappointed to see Llyod brought in again to be our WR2. I thought that there were just too many flaws for that particular role, although some will certainly disagree with me.

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To me, when a guy has flat out ability because of his raw talent, hands, size, speed and athleticism then it outplays schematics and every other thing that analyst try to "analyze". Guys like Randy Moss and Larry Fitzgerald were criticized often about too skinny, can run routes not physical enough with Moss and too slow, in and out of breaks with Fitzgerald but both ended up exceeding expectations. Not saying Dobson will be in that class but I think we often overlook too much when we get guys in the league with all the intangibles and physical attributes because of other non-physical factors. I think the will question is can Aaron Dobson line up across from and NFL cornerback and beat him on a consistent basis, at least enough to spell attention from Amendola and Gronkowski because they are going to get a lot of it. And as for other receivers the Patriots have taken in the draft in the past, I don't compare him and Boyce to those guys because I think their physical and intellectual gifts far exceed those guys and don't even come close in comparisons, and I'm impressed with Boyce playing like that on a broken foot, just wait until it heals, will probably look great out there. I don't see a Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson or whatever measuring up to an Aaron Dobson or Josh Boyce, please. That's just my opinion, and I'm sticking with it. Trust me, I think with a guy like Bill Belichick, eventually he is going to get it right, when it matters the most and when all other pieces are put in place.

Nunchucks said:

Dobson's mini-camp performance left a lot to be desired, though he did make some nice catches. He better have his nose in the playbook during "vacation" and work on catching the "easy" balls. He also should hire somebody to help him learn all the routes he will be asked to run in NE...Maybe have his head in last years game film.

He has an opportunity to be a GREAT WR, but the questions is, will he seize that opportunity?

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He's obviously a bust since he didn't excel in his first mini-camp, ran a wrong route or two. And to think, we used to wait til training camp before declaring rookies as bust.

Sfpat said:

He's obviously a bust since he didn't excel in his first mini-camp, ran a wrong route or two. And to think, we used to wait til training camp before declaring rookies as bust.

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not now, "cupcake"..now we have to bow down and admit the Godlike skils of the Chosen One while declaring all rookies demons unless they insist on taking their reps exclusively with the virginal vagabond...got it, "sunshine"?

MoneyFX said:

I think Dobson won't be able to put up the numbers Lloyd put up, but with his physical abilities, he could end up having a bigger impact on the offense than Lloyd will ever have. It would be awesome if Dobson can be a good red zone threat, with his big body. Brady would finally love to have a guy (not named Gronkowski) who he could throw fades/jump balls to and have them go get it.

I agree with the fact that Lloyd should be brought in, just to be a guy who could "move the chains." But right now, the WR position is in a logjam, but hopefully we can find out who proves themselves. So much unproven talent on this position as of now.

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Moving the chains isn't a problem. Red Zone TD's minus Gronk proved to be one of the Patriots undoings against Baltimore. The more players the Patriots have that can create scores in the Red Zone, the better (IMO).

You're quite right. Brady throws players open all the time. It will be nice to have that playmaking ability returned in kind by some receivers. Let's hope they're on the roster.

supafly said:

I still would be somewhat pleased to see B.Llyod signed to take over a lesser role in terms of being a pure possession receiver in the role that Branch has given us; possibly something closer to the production of 2011 than 2012 though. I would be very disappointed to see Llyod brought in again to be our WR2. I thought that there were just too many flaws for that particular role, although some will certainly disagree with me.

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A player going unnoticed thus far is Hawkins. He could be a fit in that pure possession role. He's a guy who has never really played with a good QB consistently. His best season was with Hassellbeck in 2011, he turned in a very solid season. I don't think he will be a go to guy for us but very well could carve out a nice role in that Branch role.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/englan...guing-investment-wide-receiver-152600736.html

I am getting a Dobson jersey..i have faith!

ausbacker said:

Moving the chains isn't a problem. Red Zone TD's minus Gronk proved to be one of the Patriots undoings against Baltimore. The more players the Patriots have that can create scores in the Red Zone, the better (IMO).

You're quite right. Brady throws players open all the time. It will be nice to have that playmaking ability returned in kind by some receivers. Let's hope they're on the roster.

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Yeah, I hope Ballard, Dobson, maybe even Jenkins can be good red zone targets other than Gronk. The Patriots did move the ball well in the AFC title game, but the Ravens and their 2nd ranked red zone defense suffocated them when they got inside the 25.

Even though the red zone scoring may have been the best in the NFL last season, it seemed to be a problem, especially late in some games (Bills, Jets, Seahawks, Ravens) when the offense would stall inside the 20-25 yard line. It's frustrating because you know that in some of the games they lost (and the others that they barely won) last season, they could have put the game away late if only the offense could punch it in for 7. It didn't help either that the defense was surrendering big plays so much in the early part of the season.

I think the issue with the offense last season was red zone efficiency. In the games we lost, we stalled at the end. And some we barely won.

Brady6 said:

A player going unnoticed thus far is Hawkins. He could be a fit in that pure possession role. He's a guy who has never really played with a good QB consistently. His best season was with Hassellbeck in 2011, he turned in a very solid season. I don't think he will be a go to guy for us but very well could carve out a nice role in that Branch role.

Y! SPORTS

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Absolutely..

There are any number of options at the position who may be able to play certain roles, so I imagine we'll have a much better read on that in the next 8 weeks. At this point all we can do is speculate.

The only reason I really brought Llyod up is due to his exceptional knowledge of the scheme run here, along with his experience. That, coupled with the fact that he'd definitely be coming on the cheap, leads me to believe that he'd be a fine addition to the WR corps in a lesser role.

I am glad that we're not keeping him as the WR2 myself, and that the team is attempting to upgrade the youth, speed, and ability to do certain things that he just isn't very good at anymore. Whether Belichick ends up feeling that he may be a possibility is anyone's guess, but I've had to think that bridge is burned and that ship has sailed at this point myself.

Archeryaddict12 said:

I think the issue with the offense last season was red zone efficiency. In the games we lost, we stalled at the end. And some we barely won.

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Of all of the issues last season, I think this was probably the most overlooked one. But then again, you can make a case for the defense, as they should help make a stop to end the game.

Because of all the numbers that were put up by the offense last season, it was easy for the critics/media to overlook the small issues that they had.

ausbacker said:

Moving the chains isn't a problem. Red Zone TD's minus Gronk proved to be one of the Patriots undoings against Baltimore. The more players the Patriots have that can create scores in the Red Zone, the better (IMO).

You're quite right. Brady throws players open all the time. It will be nice to have that playmaking ability returned in kind by some receivers. Let's hope they're on the roster.

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This was a very good thread to read through with a lot of knowledge in evidence. Imagine my surprise to find this post, the very best post on the very last page (thus far). Just watch the 1st half of the last game for all the evidence you need to see for RZ weakness. Great post, Aus.

Brady6 said:

A player going unnoticed thus far is Hawkins. He could be a fit in that pure possession role. He's a guy who has never really played with a good QB consistently. His best season was with Hassellbeck in 2011, he turned in a very solid season. I don't think he will be a go to guy for us but very well could carve out a nice role in that Branch role.

Y! SPORTS

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And here's another great post by Brady6. Through no fault of their own, Hawkins and Jones have been saddled with avg or below avg QBs for their careers. Both should benefit from a healthy dose of Brady at QB.